I've been using Moly for a very long time. I also have mentioned that I will continue to use it "until" something better comes along.

Had a buddy send me a link to a Ceramic Bore Coating by Otis, the same folks who do Bore Cleaning Products.

What's the scoop on this new Otis Ceramic Bore Coating stuff??? You have to go down the left edge and click on (.07)LifeLiner.

Anybody on this Board tried it?

There was considerable discussion about it a year or two ago on the benchrest.com forum. As I recall the opinions were mixed. You should be able to find it in the archives there.

Thanks for the info. There are a few folks that I trust here that could tell in a short amount of time if it is worth it.

Best of luck to you.

Ask a metallurgist what they think of do it yourself enhancement application products ?

It's what I did and why I passed on applying it . Ask top shelf Bench rest shooters and long range

shooters for their opinions . they will all be glad to give one . JMO

Hey Doc, I'm all for that suggestion. A good number of them hang-out here. I suspect the ones that do have just not tried it yet.

Otis says;

"It will effectively redeposit a cermet coating on worn barrel surfaces adding "measurable microns" of ceramic/metallic fusion material to the bore, returning back pressure to SAMMI specs......."

Ive not tried it but looking at the advertisment raises a number of questions in my mind. The above statement confirms that it will in fact alter your bore dimensions in "measurable microns", and implies that it will "bring a worn bore back to SAAMI specs". That raises the question of how thick or thin is this liner and makes me wonder how it will affect accuracy if it isnt applied evenly througout the bore? Then there are a plethora of questions reguarding how it will effect pressures.

The way they tell you to apply it on the tip of bullets and fire them looks hoaky as hell to me. Then there is the claim that it becomes WAY harder (I think it said 800 times) than a normal bbl surface, and yet it needs to be re-applied every 1000 shots..

Im smelling snake oil!!!

The only way I would even try this stuff is on one of my many old millsurp bbls and on a free trial basis. No way I would put it in one of my good bbls..

Just my .02 c.

Completely agree with your concerns - especially the Bullet Tip Application Method. I already do a Moly Prep on my Bores using a very snug Paper Patch, so I can see where that would spread the coating much better, but slow the coating process way down. Going Slow is no big concern for me.

I read the entire ad too and could see a bit of "Marketing" in it(aka Snake Oil). But, I'd sure like to hear from someone, on this Board that I know, before messing with it. Moly isn't for everyone, but it is doing fine for me and I don't want to swap to a Method which may be full of beans.

Hey Wstrnhuntr, If you do try it at some point, let us know what you think.

I for one have never been Keene on most do it yourself concoctions as far as for Metal

coatings go . I could almost bite on this if it required a oven cooking treatment or

a specialty type application firm doing the work .

A friend who is a tool and die machinist extraordinaire uttered the words snake oil also !.

As he pointed out to me grease Moly and Oil and many other things will also

add microns too the bore having them stay is the key .

He isn't a shooter but understands the principles of metal erosion and fails to see where

or how this prevents that problem . Isn't that the whole point too accuracy ?.

OTIS also says that one can expect a 5% to 10% increase in velocity...

How can that be?

Hey Terry, From a pure "guess" standpoint, perhaps it lowers the Bore Friction enough that it allows the user to add more Powder at a Safe Pressure level.

Moly seems to do that, but being on the Bullet flattens the Trajectory a bit too. You can see it in the old Speer ads where the Moly Coated Bullets had a 5% increase in B.C. Same Bullet but Moly Coated.

If you do decide to try it, let me know what you discover - good or bad.

I don`t know about (ceramic coatings) them personally but alot of shooters seem to think they work. Or at least this one..http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=34&Number=2937742&Searchpage=2&Main=232937&Words=%28%26quot%3Bultra+bore+coat%26quot%3B%29&topic=0&Search=true#Post2937742

quote:

Originally posted by Terry Blauwkamp:
OTIS also says that one can expect a 5% to 10% increase in velocity...

How can that be?

This sounds like BS to me.

I ran into a guy at Gander Mountain a few months ago that had just been to a gun show. He said he saw this stuff demonstrated (had to be a video) and was looking for it. He was all excited, this stuff was going to change shooting as we know it.

After umpteen billion bullets, I still haven't found a reason to switch from moly.

No matter what's introduced, some will like it and others won't. Moly works for me and like you, I'll use it until something better comes along.

Not much help, huh?

Mark

Hey Mick, I've "always heard" Colorado is an excellent place to try new Bore Coatings. Surely you would volunteer a few of your rifles to run the Test.

Come to think of it, I'd expect them to send you a "FREE" gallon of it to do the Testing with since all of us potential buyers(dupees) are so interested in how GREAT it is.

On the other hand, if you are not a Hack Writer, they may only send a quart.

I followed the link, went to the website, read the info. It does sound interesting, but I still don't fully understand the marketing angle on this stuff. Am I supposed to use it in my 40-XB, or in the old .308 Mauser whose bore is kind of iffy? Or is it just so damn good you use it everywhere? I don't know. I do have a couple rifles I wouldn't mind trying it in, whose bores had seen better days but still shoot pretty good for their intended purpose. I doubt seriously it could screw them up. But at $83 for the kit, it better be good, and do more than one rifle. It doesn't really say on the website just how much that little kit is supposed to do, those tubes look pretty dang little when you really get to looking at them. But then again, 1000 rounds is alot for a meat rifle that mainly comes out of the safe to go kill something.

When did you say you were going to do a test and report back to us there HC? I could use an accurate report on this stuff before I shelled out my hard earned cash.

I don’t know Hot Core, this is one of those things that everyone wants to know how it works but no one wants to be the first one to try it. After all, your thread is only the second time 1’ve heard about this stuff. If this bore coating was any good you would think that some “Hack Writer” would be shouting from the mountaintop by now. Maybe it’s just too new.

As far as this bore coating goes, I think I’ll just lay in the weeds and watch for a while.

Hey JTP, That is a lot of money when we can't find ANYONE on this Board that has tried it. Or if they did, they sure are staying tight lipped about it.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
...If this bore coating was any good you would think that some “Hack Writer” would be shouting from the mountaintop by now. Maybe it’s just too new. ...

Hey Mick, I agree. And yet when Moly came out many years ago, the only place I saw anything about it was in Precision Shooting magazine. Can't say if it has been mentioned in the Rags during the past 30 years or so though. I do not remember any mention of ANY Hack mentioning Moly or LifeLiner in the NRA American Hunter either, but maybe it was.

When a company is reluctant to hand out samples of their products to the Hacks, it tends to make me wonder why that is the situation. Or perhaps they did, Hacks all over tried it, found out it was a PT Barnum product and rather than get "branded" as saying ANYTHING negative about a product, have kept it to themselves.

Perhaps the Hacks had lots of it and couldn't figure out how to use it. This would not surprise me on about 90% of them.

quote:

Hey Mick, I agree. And yet when Moly came out many years ago, the only place I saw anything about it was in Precision Shooting magazine. Can't say if it has been mentioned in the Rags during the past 30 years or so though. I do not remember any mention of ANY Hack mentioning Moly or LifeLiner in the NRA American Hunter either, but maybe it was.

When a company is reluctant to hand out samples of their products to the Hacks, it tends to make me wonder why that is the situation. Or perhaps they did, Hacks all over tried it, found out it was a PT Barnum product and rather than get "branded" as saying ANYTHING negative about a product, have kept it to themselves.

Perhaps the Hacks had lots of it and couldn't figure out how to use it. This would not surprise me on about 90% of them.

HC There have been a few writers useing it and the few reports I`ve seen have been promising. I pasted a link earlier and have addded a couple here. There are a couple writers on them giving their thoughts although they go by their "handles". Muledeer is however John Barsness for one.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...89983/page/0/fpart/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...age/1/gonew/1#UNREAD

BTW I`ve heard a lot of shooters claim Moly is more hassle then it`s worth and they are dropping it. There have been a lot of posts, pro and con, about it over at benchrest central.

Gosh, Hotcore, I'd think your rifles are plenty good for almost anyones' uses just as they are.

That's one of the reasons I don't even bother to use moly. I find my rifles perform to every level I need them to shoot at, without any such gee-gaws. And to those who are aware I have not been shooting lately due to illness, I quickly add..."my rifles shoot to every level" even though I do not at the moment.

As to how the new stuff may increase velocity, one guess is through reduced friction as one poster already mentioned.

Another possibility may relate to the measurably tighter bore claimed by the makers...seems to me that a tighter bore "might" build more pressure as the bullet needs to be forced through a tighter space...and more pressure usually means more velocity once the inertia and reshaping of the bullet to fit the bore are overcome.

Anyway, If we can get our rifles to shoot the nuts off a gnat at 100 yards, why should we be anxious to add another variable to our loading and cleaning routines?

More variables just mean more possible areas in which to be inconsistent. Once we get the performance we need out of our rifles, why risk screwing it all up with another variable? Why not spend the time improving (or maintaining) our personal shooting skills instead?

Tongue in cheek, maybe instead of new bore products, we need to be be spending our time/money developing androids which can shoot our rifles with no human error.

Hey AC, That is tough Logic to disagree with. I did use a lot of Bullets for years without Moly and things went well for me. Perhaps a bit more effort during the Cleaning process, and the old Fred Barnes Originals tended to open their groups after only " 6 " shots in one of my rifles, but I never took 6 shots at a head of Game anyhow.

I got interested in Moly because of the claims they made about "Barrel Life". Back when Precision Shooting was first discussing it, Norma had a Test going you could link to. That link is now out of service, but the last time I saw it they had something like 9500 shots through some kind of HOT 6.5mm Cartridge "with no discernable loss of accuracy", to use their words.

Same with Mr. Berger's ads in PS. I believe he was tracking the barrel life in one of Mrs. Berger's BenchRest rifles in the ads back then. Memory could be wrong, but the last ad I saw of his (I think) said 5500+ shots (and the same words Norma used) "with no discernable loss of accuracy".

I had at that time what I considered a very rare rifle - it shot(still shoots) just about any Bullet Powder combination you put in it accurately. I've not had many like it and wanted to preserve the barrel as long as possible. I'd even relegated it to 99% Hunting and no practice with it. Used other rifles for practice.

Saw the stuff about Moly and decided to try it. Sure enough that old 7mm-08 M7KS is still going great. One of the best rifles I've ever had.

It does take a bit of time for me to Moly Coat my own Bullets, but it is time I'd be squandering mowing, howing, or taking care of other problems. And just as "redial" said, "I'll use it(Moly) until something better comes along."

Actually, now that I've caught on to the Moly Tricks, it goes pretty quickly. And you can do 22cal, 30cal, and 35cal(or such combinations) all at once in the same Tumbler. Their respective size difference is enough to allow easy sorting. Then " 1min " in the Carnuba coated CornCob and they are done.

If it wasn't raining here, I'd be doing some 22cal Bergers right now in the Tumbler.

My old man was one of those that believed in stuff. He poured aluminum paint into the oil of his junker to reline the cylinders. The final straw was when he poured something in his gas tank and it plugged the carb and filter.

quote:

Originally posted by Ol` Joe:
...There are a couple writers on them giving their thoughts although they go by their "handles". Muledeer is however John Barsness for one.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...89983/page/0/fpart/1

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/...age/1/gonew/1#UNREAD ...

Hey Ol' Joe, Thanks for the links, I will look at them. The only real problem I have about looking at 24hour is I'm not overly impressed by their cumulative knowledge base. I've tried to read some of their stuff in the past and needed something to drink.

I've been struggling with a way to say this diplomatically (and will freely admit that is not one of my strengths), I've only read a small sample of Mr. Barsness writing and we disagree on enough things that his thoughts on the product would not be helpful to "me".

But, I appreciate the links and will check them out.

Are you going to try it? If not, why?
-----

Hey bfrshooter, Now if you would try it and make a report, I'd be all ears.

Eric Stecker, runs Berger, shot naked bullets at the Super Shoot this year. I won't get into any argument about moly other than to say they are hardly ever seen anymore in either long or short range BR.
The BS about a ceramic bore conditioner. To make ceramic adhere to a bore would take enough heat to melt the barrel.
Butch

quote:

Hey Ol' Joe, Thanks for the links, I will look at them. The only real problem I have about looking at 24hour is I'm not overly impressed by their cumulative knowledge base. I've tried to read some of their stuff in the past and needed something to drink.

LOL

quote:

The BS about a ceramic bore conditioner. To make ceramic adhere to a bore would take enough heat to melt the barrel.
Butch

Your right. It's probably some sort of ceramic particles suspended in a viscous solution that adheres to the steel after firing. Put on wet via firing a bullet would force it into heat cracks or other depressions, smoothing the bore for as long as it lasts. Hence the re-application every 1000 rounds. I might try it in an old military gun with a well used bore and see if there are any real improvements but other than curiosity, I can't see a need for me. I actually enjoy the ritual of cleaning my guns.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
...I might try it in an old military gun with a well used bore and see if there are any real improvements but other than curiosity, I can't see a need for me. I actually enjoy the ritual of cleaning my guns.

Hey tiggertate, That sure would be an excellent Test. And if it did indeed "improve" the accuracy, I could translate that into extending the Barrel Life - for me. If you do try it, I'd sure appreciate hearing what "you" see.

I still clean and lightly Lube the Bores with the Moly bullets going through them. Some folks claim Moly draws in moisture, but if it is stored with a bit of Lube over it, the moisture can't get to the steel. Or it hasn't on my firearms.
-----

Hey Butch, You know you want to try it in one of your barrels which is ready for Tomato Stake duty(repeat that a few hundred times ). I'd also love to hear what "you" found with it.
-----

Hey Mick, Ease over there and read some of that stuff without a drink and then try to let me know what you think before you head for the bottle.

I will give you a BR barrel and you can try it.
Butch

Hey Butch, I really do appreciate it, but..., I've already got my Tomatoes staked and tied to crossbars. Surely that is what you meant.

I have never used this stuff but it looks interesting. If it really works as advertised it would be good but i have my doubts. As to the way it is applied... Even though they call it a cermec coating it seem to like a two part epoxy with a hardner or catalyst added. I suupose the heat and pressure o firing the bullets could in fact help the curing. It at least makes some sense from a chemical reaction standpoint.

You guys are aware that center fire primers have ground glass in them to provide the friction for primer ignition?

Glass is a ceramic of sorts and gets ground into to your barrel by each succeeding bullet unless you clean after every shot.