I have shot 3 lopers with this bullet so far. However since they are frail creatures I can not form an opinion on how they would really stand up to the big stuff. Accuracy never seemed to be a problem (at least in my guns). I have drived this one at close to 3400 fps in my REM 700 300 RUM I used to own with AA 8700.

Like most bullets they will probably work fine on elk broadside, but they were designed for the lighter stuff and Swift suggests using the A frame for elk and larger stuff. Makes since to me.

Thanx Ray!

They are a great bullet. I have only recovered one of them so far everyone has gone completly through thats including elk and moose. The only one I recovered was on an elk that was shot at 450+ yards it broke both shoulders and lodged next to the hide. They are supposed to retain at least 70% weight retension which is as good or better than any nosler partition. The one I recovered weiged 141 out of 150 from a 7stw.

Happy Hunting

They did a test in Shooting Times I think,firing 18 diferent 180 gr 30 cal bullets into a test medium.The sciroccos actually did better than the partitions as far as weight retention and exspansion,at high 3000fps) and low(2000)velocities.
Jeff

So far it sounds like this is great bullet!

BTW 257 and 338 cal are next for scirocco production.

Love you quote!

Spartan?

What is the BC of the 30 cal 180 gr Scirocco anyone know? Thanx.

Hence the "Come and get it" we use today. Article should be at hoem PC. Thanx

BTW Leodidas did hold off the 1000's of Persian Imperial troops!

Hmm, everyone always told me they were little better than the BalTips. I was always told not to use them for elk. I was considering the 150 gr in my 7mm Rem Mag for deer and elk.
I am mostly concerned about weight retention and penetration on elk at close range where impact velocities are high--would you people trust em to break a shoulder in thick cover and still make it to the vitals? I am looking to flatten out my trajectory some and am tired of bent lead tips so like the original poster, I am sharing interest in these bullets. Does anybody has experience with these bullets in the 7mm Rem Mag and elk? How do they compare to the 162 gr Hornady SST and to the Nosler Partitions?

Far Right,if you'd like I'll send you the article.Its not the last word of course but from the charts and pics you can draw your own conclusions.It does include sectioned photos and recovered bullet photos also to compare to the other bullets including the SST,BT,and partitions.If anything a BT on steroids!To get a fair comparison,bullets were fired into animal glue medium,so of course bone was not taken into consideration.I do know of a lot of guys using them on elk sucssfully.Hopefully I'll be one of those next week.Just have to find one of the sneaky SOBs!
Jeff

[ 11-13-2002, 01:29: Message edited by: jsr ]

jsr, I would be interested in that article. If in electronic form, email it to me. Thanks a bunch.

POP,

An Observation; During our hunt in Tanzania this Oct., Dicky used these bullets in his custom 7mmSTW. I do not know the load data.

He shot a Hartebeast at approx; 150 yards. Part of the jacket was recovered. No lead.

A Zebra at approx; 100 yards was taken. Part of the jacket was recovered. No lead.

Bone was struck in the Zebra, not in the Hartebeast.

Both animals were harvested. The bullet performance was what it was. This I pass along FWIW. I suppose it all depends on what you expect out of your bullet.

Regards,

SAM

I would like that article. You can send it to robert_boren@hotmail.com

Thanks.

Big Sam that does worry me!!!

I have some of the 150gr 7mm Sciroccos, but have not shot anything with them yet. However, I shot one moose with the 30 cal 180 grain Scirocco. The bull was standing at about 275 yds, quartering towards me. I shot him on the point of the shoulder with a 30-06 pushing that Scirocco at a MV of 2850. The bullet broke the on-side shoulder and penetrated both lungs on an angle. It was recovered from the opposite corner of the ribcage and had not quite reached the hide. It still had about 65% of it's original weight, and quite a bit of lead still adhered to the jacket, which was pretty much peeled back to it's base. I might be sceptical of this bullet at high velocities, and I realize one kill is not enough to base any real conclusions on, but I'm not throwing away my Partitions any time soon. After I shoot some game with the 7mm Mag [150 Scirocco at 3250], I'll be in a better position to make some evaluation with meaning to it. Regards, Eagleye.

From what I've seen so far, I really like the Scirocco. Penetration tests of the 180 in my 300 RUM show it to be in an entirely different class than Ballistic Tips or any other standard bullet.

It opens quickly, expands well but hangs onto its weight. It will keep expanding all the way to its base (if you shoot them really fast) without losing its core and still retains around 80% of its weight.

They aren't ultimately as tough as an X or A-Frame, etc, but they are a good deal tougher than a non-bonded bullet of standard construction.

My dad has started using the 150 7mm in his JRS and STW. So far, 3 shots, 3 one-shot kills (one antelope and two deer). The most impressive was from the STW into the back of a buck that was going away, with his head low (following a doe) slightly uphill. It penetrated about two feet of spine before comming to rest in his head.

I wouldn't hesitate to use that on elk. You may not get an exit from a double shoulder shot but I fully expect it would hold together and penetrate far enough to get the job done. Hell, I've seen 154 Hornadies do it and this is a much better bullet IMHO. But it isn't a "shoot him in the ass" bullet (in that weight/caliber).

I forgot to add another reason I like them:

At least in the 180 30 cal (and I would suspect other weights/calibers they are offered in to be the same) they have the highest Ballistic Coefficient of any commonly avialable bullet. Not just advertised but from actual tests. And with the plastic tip, you don't lose it for the rounds in the magazine when you pull the trigger.

I'am glad some of you folks have had a whole lot better luck with them than I recently had with them on Whitetail.

After reading all the articles on them,including the before mentioned Shooting Times,as well as the ad form both Swift Bullets and Remington,which has factory loads with the Scirocco.I thought them to be as some here have said a Big Step up from the Nosler Ballistic Tip.

I opted to try them in the Remington Factory Loads before trying to reload with them.150 gr.Loads for both the .300 RUM and .3006.They shoot very well from both rifles.

My Opinion of them after using them in my 3006 only on a recent Whitetail Hunt,and past use of the Ballistic Tip is----The SCIROCCO isn't even close to being the bullet that the Ballistic Tip is.I found it to BLOW UP and not give no where close to the Penetration of the Ballistic Tip.

My Opinion is also that if you don't like the Nosler Ballistic Tip don't fool with the Swift Scirocco.

Both Swift and Remington are going to be getting letters from me shortly.

That's my 2 cents.

What did you hit that caused it to blow up and what was the impact velocity?

If you TEST each bullet on the same medium, you will qickly see the Scirocco is much stronger design and will out penitrate a Nosler BT and still hold together way, way better than any BT. The BT kills fast, true, but it is not as strong as the Scirocco at all. One test proved the Scirocco to out penitrate the A-Frame even.

I have being using them in a 7 STW at velocities of 3250 and a bullet weight of 150 gr. and have never had them blow up. I have taken over 20 animals with them so far and have only recovered one as in a earlier post. They will definatly out penetrate a balistic tip.

To all responding to this post,

Since the 300 RUM came on the market, I have been using it for all of my long range whitetail hunting and have been very impressed with not only its power but also with its accuracy.

The area I hunt in Montana, has many very large bodied whitetails and mule deer. I have harvested many whitetails that went well over 300 pounds live weight and some mulies that topped 350 pounds.

From what I have learned over the past 20 years, a mature Northern whitetail buck of at least 4 1/2 years of age are one of the toughest animals on the planet to put down. I have witnessed on several occasions where mature bucks have taken marginal but lethal hits by sizible magnums and get away.

In contrast, I have seen very large mule deer take similiar hits and die very quickly. I think that a whitetails will to live combined with the huge adrenaline load they get after being hit that makes them so tough.

Pound for pound, I would say only elk are harder to put down and keep down then a Mature whitetail buck.

One example was two years ago when I was able to get a shot off at a 24" 5x5 at a range of 407 measured yards. The load was a 180 gr Ballistic Silvertip out of my 300 RUM clipping along at 3420 fps. The first shot was a solid front shoulder hit taking out the onside shoulder, punching both lungs and heart and exiting.

The shot flattened the buck like it had been hit by lightning. Within 10 seconds the buck was up and walking(limping) away from me. I waited until he stopped and turned again and remeasured, 430 yards. I held again and landed another 180 gr Ballistic Silvertip in the chest cavity.

Again the shot flattened the buck and again with very good bullet performance, but again the buck regained his feet, only to take a couple steps and fall over dead.

Now I know that the first shot was a good killing shot and it was only a matter of a few seconds before the end was near but I have learned that a wounded buck can cover alot of ground before giving up the ghost so I fired again.

I have also slammed large bodied bucks at under 100 yards with this same load with 100% success, in fact, I have never found a bullet in any of the dozen or so bucks I have harvested with this load.

My question to those of you that have used the Sirocco bullets is simple. I hunt in an area where cover is nonexistent and shooting ranges can often reach over 400 yards, which the release of the 150 gr Scirocco bullets I became interested in them for long range deer hunting out of the 300 RUM.

I have loaded my 300 with the 150 gr Ballistic TIp to a max load of just over 3700 fps. The only problem is that I know the Ballistic Tip would act like a big varmint bullet at that speed.

How would the 150 gr Scirocco stand up to the speed on game the size of 300 pound whitetail? As I said before, I really have no complaints at all about the 180 gr Ballsitic Silvertips, but is I could load the 150 gr Scirocco's to near 3700 fps and have them hold up at +300 yards. They would be an even better long range pronghorn and deer bullet.

Again I do not care about using these bullets on game the size of elk, just 300-350 pound deer at the biggest.

I also wonder why bother, the 180 gr ballistic Silvertips have yet to let me down and they cost about 1/2 as much.

Your opinions would be great.

Also I have pretty much converted to hunting with single shot handguns. My latest toy is a full custom XP-100 in the wildcat 338-300 WSM. This year I harvested a large mule deer doe at 178 yards and a huge 5x4 mule deer buck at 317 yards that weighed in at 348 pounds live weight.

In both instances, the 180 gr Ballistic Tip traveling at 2950 fps created identical 2.5" entrance wounds and 1.5" exit wounds in the chest cavity telling me that there was very good expansion and energy transfer as well as very controlled expansion and good penetration at these two very different ranges and different size game.

What is the new 338 Scirocco bullet weight and how could it improve on the performance I am getting with the Ballistic TIp?

If you say it will perform better on game such as elk, I already have a 200 gr Ballsitic TIp load at 2775 fps. Nosler does say that the 338 Ballistic Tip is intended for elk hunting with rounds such as the 338 Win Mag and 340 WBY.

What does it offer that will justify the price?

Thanks for your opinions!

Good Hunting!!!

50

50,

I would NOT suggest using the 150 Scirocco at 3700. They ain't that tough! In fact, the only bullet I have experience with that I would use at that velocity are Barnes X (but I'm sure many of the other mono-metal/solid shank type bullets would hold together as well I just haven't tried them).

Stick with 180's. They're flat enough. Since you're using a range finder (good job) a couple inches of trajectory won't gain you anything. But you will have alot less wind drift (which is much harder to compensate for than drop), more retained energy, better bullet performance, better penetration, etc with the 180's.

I believe the 338 Scirocco is a 210 or 220gr and would be a better bullet over all, but it's just my opinion. The one you are using is working well so you have to consider that for sure. Bear are a consideration when loading this type of bullet up here too, so it may be just me.

A follow up to my above post.

The load was the Remington Premier Scirocco 150 gr
in the 3006,clocked in mine in the mid 2950 fps range.(don't have my notes in front of me)

Deer 1- 50 yards,quartering frontal angle.Bullet hit in the Ribs and Blew Up,the entry hole was the size of a baseball,and never exited.The good news is it Dropped in it's Tracks,But being a very samll deer of maybe 35 lbs on the hoof I think had a lot to with this.
Deer 2-150 yards Broadside,Shoulder hit where aimed.Bullet did not Exit or go much passed the Shoulder.This Deer was lost to the Varmitts,But I did find it after they had go on it.Enough was left entact to see the above.

I have used the Ballistic Tip in the same weight of 150 grs at almost the same Vel. and Shooting Angles and Aimming Points.To date they have All pased though and gave alot better performance than the Sciroccos did above.

I'am glad that some of you have had better performance out of Scirocco than I Did,but in my opinion the Nosler Ballistic Tip is Better.

Well, I guess I am having a little trouble with some of these posts.

What did I just read, a 150 gr Scirocco traveling at 2950 fps out of an '06, blew up and failed to penetrate on a "35 lbs" deer?

I try to be open minded but these stories are even better then some of the nuts that say the Ballistic Tips are far to fragile for deer hunting.

Come on guys, this bullet is a Bonded Core bullet with an extremely thick, almost pure copper jacket. To say one flat exploded on an aminal the size of a coyote is simply laughable to be polite.

I am a great fan of the Ballistic Tip and Ballistic Silvertip line of bullets for use on game under 500 pounds when using calibers from the 100 gr .257" BT up to the 180 gr .308" BT.

I really don't care how fast you drive them, one deer size game they will get the job done, if placed in the vitals. I have hit 300 pound whitetails with the 100 gr .257" Ballistic Tip at ranges inside 50 yards where impact velocities are in the 3300 fps range, yes the bullet lost its core I'm sure but honestly can't tell you that because I have found only one BT to date out of a couple dozen big game animals.

I have also hammered big deer at +400 yards with picture perfect performance and have yet to personally witness a well placed ballistic tip or ballistic Silvertip not kill a deer within 100 yards and usually where they stand.

That said, to sit here and listen to someone say that a much stouter constructed bullet such as the Scirocco explode on a 35 pound deer(who shoots a deer that tips the scale at 35 pounds?) and not fully penetrate.

Then also to say that they lost another deer because the same bullet failed again on a bit larger doe, all I have to say is I simply do not believe either story at all.

There is no plysical way that that bullet, driven to those velocities would fail to that degree on that size animals.

Like I said, I love the ballistic Tips and Ballistic Silvertips and have no need to switch to the Scirocco bullets for deer hunting but I also know that if the B. Tips work great, the Scirocco will work just as well if not better.

I'm sorry, I just can't sit here and read these stories anymore. Could it be that we simply aren't making good enough hits on our game and its just easier to blame the bullets.

I call B.S. on that last story and a few others that have been listed.

If you know anything about a bullet with a Bonded Core you know it is vertually impossible to make it explode without the force created by EXTREME VELOCITY, 2950 fps is about 600 fps under that level and wouldn't even be a strain for either the B. Tips and especially not the Scirocco.

Just had to air my thoughts on some of these stories, as they can only be discribed as uneducated crap in my mind.

Good Shooting!!!

50

Fiftydriver-

Sir, No offense taken by your above post.Call it
"Laughable" or Pure Bull all you want to,but as Unbeliveable as it seems IT's ALL 100 % TRUE.

[ 11-19-2002, 10:52: Message edited by: Tiny ]

I'm with Fiftydriver on this one! Eagleye.

How does one logically explain how a Scirocco, BT or SMK will penitrate 3/8" steel plate at 50 to 600 yards and not penitrate a deer of any size at the same range. I would entertain any serious possibile scenarios. Seriously, is there is something I'm missing?

The Scirocco has the thickest jacket of all and is also bonded. I for one need an explanation when stuff doesn't add up like this that's so obvious, isn't everyone that way?

Folks,
After reading all the Good Reports on the Scirocco
Bullet,giveing the Fact it does have a Thicker Jacket and a Bonded Core,all of which means that it Should Be One the Best Bullets out there,and it Should Not BLOW UP.I too would call Bull on my above POSTS,Had it not happened to me.

Again no offense taken by me to any of your Opinions on my above posts.They are 100% correct.

I have sent letters today to Both Swift Bullets and to Remington,I can't wait to see what they have to say on this.

[ 11-20-2002, 06:37: Message edited by: Tiny ]

My experience with Sciroccos is very limited since I have only seen 4 animals (red deer and wild boar with 180gr in a 300WinMag and chamois and roebuck with 130gr in a 270 Win) taken with them producing three recovered bullets.
In all cases the animals died very quickly. The bullets produced large wounds after expanding to very large frontal diameters what stopped them rather soon. Weight retention was around 80-85 per cent and they were all very accurate.
just my 2 cts.
regards,
montero

I note these reports of Sciroccos blowing up, as bad, or worse, than the infamous Ballistic Tip are all from Remington factory ammo, not handloads. Perhaps Remington's bullets aren't up to the standard of the bullets availiable to handloaders ?
I, too, have seen the Scirocco perform. Peeled back to about the last 1/3 of it's weight, but still at 147 grs. Not bad for a 180 gr., .308 bullets. I know of no Ballistic Tip bullet performing like that. E

I'm sorry Tiny, but I don't buy it either.

i'VE SAID IT FOR SOME TIME...and people laugh but, there is something about a small deer that seems to be hard on bullets. I saw a guy many years ago shoot a nice size elk and get perfect performance out of a 180 ball tip--complete pass through with about 2" wound channel. A couple days later the same guy, gun, load hits a small deer in the shoulder and it doesn't get past the shoulder bone. I don't know why. Maybe their little bodies move and give as the bullet hits--i don't know but I've seen it and I've heard so many stories I have to believe it!!

Your first clue is everyone wants to compare the Sirraco to the Nosler Partition and make claims of how it expanded larger than the partition...

Well, the simple fact is a Partion Nosler is designed to retain 65% or its weight and penitrate better than most bullets, it penitrates better because it has less cross section,after final expansion has been reached..

Everyone is searching for the holy grail to defeat the Nosler but it will not happen, Nosler partitions are and always will be the bullet by which all others are judged..

We already have failures in Siracco, because they have been used at velocities they were not designed for and on animals larger than they were designed for...Most of the time they work, so some think they are perfect and they will continue to argue their merits until one fails, which it surly will...

The good money rides on the hunter that uses his God given intelligence and horse since...He will use the Siracco on deer and antelope and the premium Swift on the larger animals, just like the Swift Company suggests and not screw around until he wounds an animal because he does not want to admit he is wrong...but then I am confrontational this week, I will be Ok in a few days...

Of course the Siracco is a better game bullet than the Nosler Balistic tip or Silvertip...Why wouln't it be after all it has a "bonded core" and that is the latest and best method of bullet making.....That still does not mean that the Balistic tip is not a good bullet for its intended game and that is deer and antelope....

Well, I suppose I sort of owe Tiny an apology. I'm not sure I do or not though, honestly. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe what Tiny said possibly could have happened. Here's why:

This past Saturday at 8:15 in the morning I got to put a Scirocco to the test for the first time on a 11 point, 195 lb. whitetail that was standing about 20 to 25 yards away. I was shooting the 180 gr. Scirocco in my .300 Weatherby. The muzzle velocity was around 3150 fps, so I'm guessing the velocity when it made impact with the deer was still at least 3000 fps or close to it.

The deer was broadside and very slightly quartering toward me and I shot him 4 to 5 inches behind the left shoulder. The deer hunched up and trotted about 25 yards and fell over dead. Based on the angle of the deer I expected to find an exit wound on the right side of the deer about 6 or 7 inches behind the shoulder and slightly lower than the entrance since I was sitting in a 14' tripod when I shot him. However, there was no exit wound. Instead I could feel the bullet under the skin covering the offside shoulder. So the bullet apparently veered left and up after it entered the deer.

When I got the deer back to the rack and skinned it, it was apparent that the bullet had devastated the internal organs. It had mushroomed to almost 1" in diameter, but also had flattened almost completely out like a pancake. Only about 1/8" of bullet shank was remaining. I don't know what it weighed or the exact dimensions because I left it next to the skinning rack and came back later and it was gone. I couldn't find it on the ground, so I guess another club member got it. I don't know.

So, even though I ended up with a nice deer, I am somewhat dissappointed in the performance of the Scirocco. I have shot deer with both the Ballistic Tip and Hornady SST in the ribs also and they have always penetrated straight through. I'm not saying it failed, but I'm just really surprised it didn't exit. It's not as stout and predictable as I thought it would be. Of course I understand this is only one example, so I'll probably keep using it for now to see if that was an isolated situation or if that's typical of the Scirocco. Hopefully I'll know after this season.

Delta Hunter,

I am suprised at your comments about being disappointed with the performance of the Scirocco on your deer.

Let me get this right, you drive a bullet designed to easily and quickly expand into a 200 pound buck at 20 yards with an impact velocity probably more like 3100 fps and you say your disappointed when the bullet only destroys the vitals and end up just under the hide on the offside?

The Scirocco basically saved your bacon on that shot. There is a reason for the lack of full penetration which should be very obvious, as should the reason why the Ballistic Tips punch through.

The Ballistic Tip bullet will expand easily and quickly but its frontal area of the mushroom is often less then 2 calibers. This is because the jacket folds back over itself and looses lead as it does, keeping the frontal area small.

This small frontal area requires much less energy to be driven through the animal then a large diameter mushroom.

The Scirocco, being of bonded core design expands quickly and easily but as it does, the bond between the jacket and core prevent the core from shedding. Because of this and the thick jacket walls on this bullet, the frontal area of the mushroom grows very large, often near 1" as you stated.

Imagine how much more energy is required to drive this 1" diameter mushroom through the deer.

Imagine a telephone book sitting on a work bench. Take a nail and drive it through the book with a hammer, punches through quite easily, take a quarter, lay it on the book and hit it with a hammer, how deep does it penetrate?

This is an extreme example but it shows the point at hand.

Another issue is the tissue disrupted by this huge frontal area mushroom. The perminant wound channel will be huge for a majority of the bullets path.

Your bullet didn't fail, it performed amazingly well under the extreme strain that you placed on it.

It never fails to amaze me how hunters can use bullets so wrongly, harvest game extemely efficiently, and still blame the bullet for poor performance.

If your going to hammer a deer at 20 yards with a 180 gr bullet out of a 300 WBY Mag, use an A-Frame or Partition Gold bullet.

Better yet, why not use an open sighted Win 94 in 30-30?

Don't get me wrong, I am a Ballistic Tip man 100% for deer size game, but when I hear a hunter complain about performance like you just had, I have to shake my head a bit.

Good Hunting and congrats on the buck.

50