I'm probably the only one who didn't know this, but I'll post it anyway in the event that there are others as poorly informed as myself.

Our reloaderland colleague, '1894', advised us on a different thread that the use of "filler" can result in "chamber ringing". His experience required replacement of a rifle barrel. He referenced an article that described the circumstances. Upon review of the article, I concluded that the circumstances and the results were real. Hence this post.

Sumarizing the article:

DO NOT USE "FILLER" OR "BALLAST" OF ANY SORT IN ANY CARTRIDGE PARTIALLY-FILLED WITH GUNPOWDER UNLESS THAT "FILLER" TOTALLY FILLS THE AIRSPACE BETWEEN THE GUNPOWDER AND THE BASE OF THE BULLET AND SLIGHTLY COMPRESSES THE GUNPOWDER. OTHERWISE, THE BARREL CAN BE RUINED DUE TO "CHAMBER RINGING".

For further information:

� Access "GunHoo: Gun Pages Central: Firearms Links" (gunsgunsguns.com).
� Type: "The Reloading Bench" (in "Search GunHoo").
� Clicking "Search GunHoo" get you a list of "GunHoo Categories".
� Select the first on the list: "Ammunition: Reloading".
� Scroll to and select: "The Reloading Bench".
� Select: "Index of Articles".
� Scroll to and select: "Cautions on Chamber Ringing" from "Some Advanced Stuff".

Don't stop using "filler". Just make sure that there's enough "stuff" to fill the airspace.

Good shooting.

Robert

http://www.m-s-co.com/sso/articles/article14.html

quote:

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Originally posted by aladin:
Bob: check out this url.

http://www.m-s-co.com/sso/articles/article14.html

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Also suggest posting this on the cast forum-- as most fillers are used with cast.

Thanks for the heads-up. Interesting. I'm using Dacron, cotton, and Styrofoam in my experiments. No ringing (yet). But all of them tend to foul the bore. By simply placing a [close-fitting] disc ["wad"] of ordinary tablet cardboard backing between the filler and the gunpowder, all of that went away. The disc scorches but does not burn. The filler does not melt. Apparently, the cardboard serves as insulation. These are straight wall cases; 45 Colt and 45-70.

Thanks again.

Robert

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You might try ordinary styrofoam in the 45-70. I cut "plugs" using a fired 45-70 case sharpened at the mouth, then cut to length with an Exacto knife. The advantage of styrofoam is that it weighs about 1/10th of the same volume of Dacron or cotton, and compresses to next to nothing prior to the bullet moving. It also retains the "stiffness" advantage of Kapok for holding the powder in place. However, stryofoam does melt. I put a wad of ordinary cardboard (paper tablet backing) between the gunpowder and the bullet. No melting.

Good shooting.

Robert

I was doing this in my 416 RemMag, so any other suggestions for bottleneck cases are welcome. Right now I've just upped my loads to a mostly full case and use no wad.

Don

[This message has been edited by Don G (edited 04-30-2001).]

I am against the use of any fillers-- for these reasons. To use them, the shooter must understand the why's-- and usually they just plop fillers in as an afterthought. They chg expansion ratio's- which affects pressure to be sure, so the loads your copying with pressure data aren't valid. And solid mass fillers [potentially represent a hazard- chamber ringing,] fillers failing to clear the barrel [remote but surely possible] and then possible inaccuracy problems. The solid mass in effect becomes the bullet base- and can produce uneven gas release at the muzzle.

As I stated previously, I only started these experiments due to muzzle leading-- as the bore I'm using is largest at this point. And while I negated the said muzzle leading, I'm yet to determine it's affect on accuracy. Being as I'm using a low pressure 45/70, I'll have the air space to contend with and need something to stay PUT. Have a couple more ideas to try out.

I added the [ ] to that phaze because it's INCOMPLETE-- if a filler gets a run at the bullet base- problems can start. With no air space between bullet base and filler-- the concern becomes if the filler would melt to a liquid state-- and as I understand it that can cause problems. A.

[This message has been edited by aladin (edited 05-02-2001).]

Expect to ruin your barrel. The cardboard is your primary projectile and the bullet is the obstruction. Eventually you will ring your barrel. Why not just go to a bulkier powder??? If you tested, you would find the wad loads are not giving as accurate results as without. I assume you are using cast bullets. The wad slams into the base and distorts it. That ruins accuracy. You are heading down a well traveled path that leads no place.

NO !!! It is not. Forget it.

Since the "filler" experiments are continuing, it will be much appreciated if you would advise us of the data upon which you base your opinions; particularly the distortion of the bullet base due to impact by the cardboard "wad".

Your comments are important.

Robert

quote:

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Originally posted by scot:
"Handloader" magazine.

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It's been some time since I opened a 'Handloader'-- but many articles in yrs past recommended the use of many fillers- including cardboard wads. You'll have to cite the article, author and the jist of what they're saying-- ie, the exact circumstances.

This cites the reason I'm against fillers. Used by unknowing hands- the results can be dangerous-- or just like most all handloading endeavors. The card wad or disc has been used about forever in shooting plain base bullets to seal gases and protect the bullet base-- provided there's no air space for the card to settle.

S

[This message has been edited by scot (edited 05-02-2001).]

I have posted to this effect many times and usually with a challange, so I suppose some get away with it....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com