In the world of coalitions etc., I side with Denton, AC and Clark on this. They are perfectly capable of of making their points, and supporting them as well. That said, I have a couple of thoughts on the subject for Deke.

I don't really understand why you would be using, or trying to duplicate Ackley's loads considering that the information is seriously dated. Given the change in powder compositions and burn rates over the years methinks your 38.0 gr. load not only dangerous, it makes me hope you have your insurance premiums up to date. Next, why do you not take a tip from Slim and try a different powder, like Reloader 15? Or H335? 4895 or maybe WW748? There are a bunch of powders better than 3031 these days.

Mind you this is for a 30-30 plain Jane, but I have two manuals that list velocities near 2500 fps with H335 and 150 gr Hornady RN's. Another manual, granted a bit dated, shows RX15 at 2450 fps with a Sierra 150 JFP and 40,600 PSI. Dan's very own Contender Carbine w/ 22" barrel runs 2485 fps with RX15 and a Sierra 150 gr Spitzer. What I'm saying is that 2500 fps ain't much of a goal, and 3031 is too fast for your goal. WHY are you doing this Deke?

There isn't any reliable and realistic way for you to evaluate pressure without strain gauge equipment, or perhaps sending your loads to a lab for testing, certainly not within the realm of 30-30 pressures. Did not Mr. Ackley himself define one of his goals for his creations as being able to gain performance at the same pressure level as the parent cartridges? IIRC, it was Eldeguello's testimony about a hundred miles back in this thread that suggested that a 30-30 wasn't a .300 Savage. Well, you don't want to make that your epitaph. Particularly when it is not necessary.

DigitalDan,

Read a bit closer and you will see that it was not my goal to use 3031 in the long run, I have taken Slim's advice in that 37gr was the max (not the 38 I tried), and finally I prefer to use H4895 and Varget. The 3031 was an attempt to duplicate Ackley's load so I could get a realistic PR measurement since Ackley did not offer loads for the H4895 and Varget. The PR measurement was needed to use PRE as a development tool.

I agree that 2500fps+ in a 24" barrel is achievable and that is the goal. Other than the comments concerning the strain gauge, I am not sure about the reason for your post since all of your concerns were addressed. Did I miss somthing?

Deke.

Hey!! Thanks for the update, asdf!!

Deke,

I posted this on a seperate thread but will include it here as well.



Your gunsmith, at least the one you spoke to about strength, is right and wrong. I can accurately calculate the stress imparted to your barrel, this does not depend upon the material properties of the steel ONLY on the geometry (ie size and shape). I have ASSUMED that your barrel steel has a tensile yield strength of ~ 108,000 psi. This strength number is based upon a steel with a rockwell hardness number of 25 on the "C" scale.

With regard to your request about a load with IMR4895 (or H4895), a 150 grain bullet, and a muzzle velocity of 2500 fps, here is what my software came up with.

39.8 grains of 4895
Muzzle velocity ~ 2503 fps
Chamber pressure ~ 67,000 psi (actually it spit out 66,960 psi)

Expected PRE of ~ 0.0020"

I WOULD NOT USE THIS LOAD!! < !--color-->

I think I would start around 31 grains of 4895 and work my way up to 0.0015" to 0.0016" of PRE and be happy.

I would also recommend Rel 15! You have the case capacity, you may be able to get more velocity with the Rel 15 than you can with the 4985. Also, WW748 or H335 will pack in nicely. You really need to keep the maximum pressures WELL under 60,000 psi! To do this you really aren't going to see a dramatic improvement in muzzle velocity between the plain jane 30-30 and the 30-30 AI. Sorry, but that is just the way the cookie crumbles.

ASS_CLOWN

AC,
Thanks for making the charts easier to read

I know that PRE is not perfect, but have decided that based on all of the info shared in previous posts that it is the best method (along with manual comparison of similar cartridges and Quikload data) to give me an idea of where I am with pressure in the 30300AI. I will continue load development starting 1gr less than 3030Win max and work up .5gr increments and settle on .0015"-.0016" PRE as recomended and will be paying VERY close attention past 2500fps (which is only 4-5% over published load data in Hodgdon manual for 24" barrel) with 150's. Gonna use one or all of RL15/Varget/H4895. Will be taking 5 factory ammo from same box I established my factory PR (leaving 5 more for future) and fireforming them along side 5 bulk brass to get a comparison of the different brass so I can use the bulk brass for future PRE development. Will then use these 2 lots of brass simultaneously to learn more of how they compare as I work up loads.

I have been practicing PRE with my 7-08 since I know it well and am sure of the max loads in that rifle. I have discovered that using a micrometer does take a bit of practice. Also discovered that my 3030Win PR for factory ammo in factory chamber (before AI) was .4186" not .4183" as previously reported making the PRE of the 38gr/IMR3031 load less which makes me feel a little bit better .

I know this pertains to 7-08, but for curiosity sake, should I get a larger PRE with a heavier bullet than a lighter bullet if they are operating at the same pressure (154Horn/IMR4064 in my 7-08 PRE's are +.0002" larger than the 139Horn/IMR4064......)? How far over factory PR's can I go over Hornady published data in my 7-08(139Horn/H380 PR's fluctuate .0000" to +.0004" over 139/IMR4064 and -.0002" to +.0002" over 154/IMR4064, the fluctuating PRE of the H380 is indicitive of its temperature sensitivity...)?

Still not sure and nobody has addressed why I did not get sticky extraction with max++ loads......

Also for what its worth I checked my notes and Marlin said that velocities started to diminish with the 3030Win in barrels exceeding 26", not 24" as I previously reported.

Will update in a few weeks to couple of months since I have to focus on the 7-08 more over the next few weeks.

Deke.

I overload guns as a hobby in itself, but you will not see me pushing a Win 94 or Marlin 335 until the brass tells me to stop....



Get a '98 Mauser.

Clark,

I have a 98 Mauser, but its obviously not a 3030 lever.

Not sure what your post meant, but if you need clarification, the 7-08 is on a factory Rem700.

The question that pertained to PRE and possible overloads was should I expect more PRE with heavier bullets operating at same pressures as lighter bullets (in any chambering), and can the H380 PRE safely exceed the IMR4064 (loaded to Hornady published max) PRE by .0002"-.0004" for the 7-08 on the Rem700?

Deke.

Deke,

PRE should not be bullet weight specific. PRE is pressure specific.

ASS_CLOWN

Deke,
What I mean is, the 98 Mauser is stronger than the brass. Overload a 98 Mauser and the primer pierces or falls out, or the bolt gets stuck. And it vents gas to the magazine.

Overload the 1894 or 336, and the chamber splits, that happened at my range this year [not to me] with injuries.

I take allot of risks, but not that one.
I just follow the dumb old load books with the 30-30.