first time on this board found alot of interesting info.ive run across a problem.i have a ruger m77vt .308 and i cant seem to get it to shoot under 3/4" @ 100yd.with exception of speers 180 round nose (1/2" @ 100yd)ive tried barnes xbt,nosler partion,which are my favorite because of game performance.165gr barnes 45.0gr rl15 2.82 col.was my latest test load and 3/4" rsulted.i know the rifle is capable of accuracy because i have m77v in .243 and its an extremly accurate hunting rifle.i know im not going to get same hole shots in a factory rifle,but i know i can get better than 3/4".is there any small thing that can make minute differences?

Max,

First thing I'd do is give it a very thorough cleaning with JB compound and CR-10. Once you're sure it is clean, I'd try both 150 and 165 gr balistic tips, Reloader 15 and Federal 210 primers. I'd be very suprised if you weren't able to make either of those bullets shoot 1/2" groups.

First of all, be happy with your 0.5" to 0.75" groupings with a standard factory rifle.

Secondly, your assumption that the .308 has to be a more accurate rifle because your .243 is. Duh...does that mean my Bronco should do at least 200 MPH because Ford's NASCAR cars go that fast?

i was just simply saying that the two are the exact same rifles and both are completly factory biult,so should have the same manners.sorry they dont have an icon for jackass ,jackass!

Ive got a VT in 308 and have found 46gr. Win.-748 with a Win.primer and Sierra 155 Palma HPBT Match to group real well. This is middle of the road load pressure/velocity wise. Luck::::Multi Vis

I do believe your accuracy is outstanding for a factory rifle not made by Remington or Savage.
Everone except Ruger owners know Rugers just plain won't shoot worth a hoot!

------------------
Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

maxx...

I have three (3) Ruger 77V's in .22-250. They have consecutive serial numbers. They were all produced on the same day. Yet they all shoot differently, and prefer different bullets and powders.

Your .308 is NOT the same rifle as your .243.

My Ruger Magnum Rifle in .375 is so accurate its scary...It also has one of the best Cicassion walnut factory stocks I have seen...

Be happy with you .308! That's a shooter...

Get some Sierra 168 gr match bullets and IMR 4064 and try it again.

Like they said 3/4" is not bad.

My old Ruger 77 in 7x57 would shoot a 175 grain Remington roundnose factory load into a gloverleaf every time, but would not shoot a 150 grain into anything close to that group. I finally got hold of some old 150 grain Remington soft points which would shoot to slightly over an inch. This bullet shared with the 175 grain round nose a very long bearing surface. Maybe your .308 barrel shares this preference for bullets with long bearing surfaces. Try a factory Remington in whatever weight you want and see what happens. Ku-dude

I don't own a 7x57, but I do own a 8x57 and it likes long bearing bullets. Try heavey Nosler Partition bullets or Barnes. They are expensive, but if you use them for hunting, you shouldn't use many of them. Good luck!

Ditto to what the guys said previously about seating the bullets out a bit. If the round nose bullets shoot better it could possibly mean that the rifle prefers to have the bullets seated out a bit longer than the listed max. overall length.
I have a Remington model 700 in 308 Win. caliber. With bullets seated to the listed max. overall length the rifle will shoot around 1 moa. When I seat them to be about 0.010" off the lands the accuracy tightens up quite a bit and will average a bit under 1/2 moa even though the loaded rounds are about 1/8" longer than the listed max.
Oh yes, good quality match bullets are a must for accuracy testing. The best powder that I have tried for my rifle is Reloader 15, but some other rifles like different powder. Also match primers and a single group (approx 20) of weighed and trimmed once fired cases. It might not make any difference but it never hurts to get rid of as many variables as possible.

bruce
what is the best way to get proper seat depth.im shooting 165gr barnes xbt and by the manual they need to be .050 form the lands.my col 2.82 and they arent touching should i shallow it up a bit till they hit the lands and back it down a bit?thanks for the help.
maxx

One seldom used reloading trick you may get results with is seat your bullet half way then back off give the case one half turn then finish the seating of the bullet. The groups in my 308 shrunk by half doing this. This reloading trick seating the bullet is well worth the extra effort in all your rifles.
You may also try other brands of primers to see if that will reduce your groups. Give WW-748, IMR 3031, IMR 4064, BLC#2, a try and see how well your rifle likes those powders. My 308 loves WW-748 with the 125 gr. bullet. Have fired some fantastic groups even I had trouble believing.

Maxx--------------I just bought a 308 77VT myself-----I haven't had time to really dial it in yet---what I have found so far are 3/4" groups---using Sierra 165gr btsp pushed by 41 gr of IMR 4064----seated 10 thou back of the lands----WMR primers-------Win. brass.
I just bought some RL-15 & IMR 7828 to try--------I am certain it will eventually come around. I just to work on it----Barnes---I had a 25 AI just built-----it will only shoot XLC-s if they are 5 thou or less from the lands NOT 50 thou as suggested. If you would like to swap info on your 308 just E-mail me. Maybe we could cut our costs down-----
rustyspur@hotmail.com RL

RE-LOADER
IVE HAD MY BEST ACCURACY WITH RL-15
IN SPEER AND BARNES I HAVENT TRIED NOSLER WITH IT,BUT EVERYBODY HERE SEEMS TO LIKE THE BT.TO SPEAK THE TRUTH I TRULY HATE THEM THEY ACCURATE BUT HAVE PERFORMED POORLY ON GAME FOR ME.NOW I DO LIKE THE PARTITION.WHAT IS YOUR COL ON THE BARNES?I SAT MINE 2.82 I DONT THINK ITS QUITE CLOSE ENOUGH.IVE GOT MANY LOADS WOKED SOME GREAT AND OTHER COULD BE BETTER BUT THATS HOWS IT GOES WITH SHOOTING.ID LIKE TO SHARE INFO IT MAY SAVE US BOTH TIME,HEADACHES,MONEY.THANKS MAXX

Maxx,
there are a number of ways to determine bullet seating depth.
You can buy an insert guage from Sinclair that you insert a bullet into and then slide into the chamber. It has tension on the bullet and then all you do is measure the overall length and use this as a basis for loading your cartridges. One potential problem area is that bullet tips seem to vary a bit and so measuring overall length from the tip is a crap shoot even with a single batch of bullets. There is a little tool that looks like a big hex nut that has a hole in each of the flats which are different sizes and marked for a particular caliber of bullet. I slide the nut over the bullet and measure the overall length to the end of the nut. The holes are a bit smaller than the bullet diameter so the nut fits over most of the bullet and gives an accurate and consistent length for loading. Write down the measurement for future reference because this length does not relate directly to anything published. It is purely a comparative measurement. This explanation may be a bit obscure so I will clarify with an example.

I have a box of bullets and want to determine the seating depth where the bullets just kiss the lands so that I have a consistent load starting point.
First, take a bullet and insert it into the chamber measuring gage tool. Push it into the chamber, remove it and then carefully put the hex nut tool onto the bullet so that you can measure a cartridge overall length out to the flat of the nut using a set of dial calipers. Write down the measurement. Do the same for several bullets and do not get too worried if the measurements vary a bit. Sometimes the bullet will move a bit so you want to try several times until you are sure you have a solid measurement.
Load up a dummy (no powder or primer) round by adjusting your seating die to seat the bullet to the same measurement you just determined. Load up a second dummy round with the bullet being seated out about 0.005" longer and another seated out 0.010" longer. Get a felt tip marker and paint the entire bullet black. Chamber the dummy round and close the bolt. Remove the round and inspect the tip carefully. On the shortest dummy round look very carefully for a series of small scrape marks evenly spaced around the bullet up about 1/4" from where the bullet inserts into the case. There might not be any on the shortest one. Go to the longer dummy rounds and repeat the same procedure and keep looking very carefully for the scrape marks. Once you get a good idea of what to look for you can usually see them without having to use the black magic marker. Those little scrape marks are the bullet "Kissing the Lands". The longer seated length should have scrapes where the bullet actually pushes into the lands rather than just a little shiny spot.
A cheater method that sometimes works pretty well is to take a fired case and resize it on your sizing die, but make sure and back off the die a couple of turns. This only squeezes the end of the neck. Use your neck chamfering tool to clean up the inside neck diameter so that you can push the pullet into the case by hand but still get some tension to hold the bullet in place. Make sure the bullet is just barely inserted into the case and then chamber the case. This should push the bullet down in the case. carefully remove the dummy round and measure the overall length. Try it a number of times because some times the bullet will get caught in the chamber and not come out with the case. Just use a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle end to push the bullet out and try again. Sometimes I have had good luck with this method and sometimes it has not worked at all.
Please remember that most published reloading data is based on the bullet having some freebore in the loaded condition so you will have to use a lighter powder load if you seat the bullets out further because "Kissing the Lands" supposedly raises pressure levels a bit even though it has always improved accuracy quite a bit for me.

One last thing. You did not mention any specifics of how you are getting a particular level of accuracy. I use a 32 power target scope for all load development and shoot at 300 and 600 yards. At 300 yards I can see the bullet holes thru the scope as long as I set the impact point to be in the white paper rather than the blcck center. Also use as small an aiming point as possible. At 300 I use a blank piece of paper and then shoot one hole to use for an aiming point and adjust the scope to shoot about 12" low for the rest of the shots. What has happened to me a number of times in the past is that I will work up a good load at 100 yards and then find out it will not shoot worth a crap at longer ranges. These days I do load development at longer range and then test the best at shorter ranges. You might be suprised to find that the best loads at shorter ranges are really piss poor at longer range. My long range loads always do excellent at shorter range.

[This message has been edited by Bruce Gordon (edited 11-14-2001).]