This will be a hornet's nest thread I suspect but it's time to just say it!!!!!

The 7 X 57 and all it's family members (the 6mm Rem, 257 Roberts, 6.5 X 57, and 8mm Mauser) are obsolete.

No one (hardly) chambers for any of them any more and the only value they have is as collectors or nostalgia pieces.....period!

Had the US military used the "X 57" case when the 30-06 was born the 7 X 57 would be the king (or at least queen) of cartridges today.....but fate was fickle and the case used had a fair amount of additional capacity spawning the .25-06, .270Win, .280 Rem, 338-06, and .35 Whelen all of which are readily available in full pressure rounds and chamberings right from the store!

There's no way I'm saying that the 'X 57" family isn't totally adequate, capable, or inadequate. This simply isn't true at all.....it's a fabulous family.....but face it it's obsolete and time to recognize it! Slightly better rounds are available in all calibers!!!! and actions to suit as well!

If there's anything the "X 57" family has going for it is that many Milsurp Mausers are ideally suited for it but many of the better ones also handle the "06" cases as well! Further the making of a rifle in the "X 57" family is costly and much more so than buying a ready made factory gun that isn't at all bad!

One more thing.....the 7 X 57 and sister 8 X 57 must be handloaded to achieve it's performance capability where this can be "store bought" in a 7-08, 280 Rem, etc! These too can be handloaded if one chooses.

So my question:.......why would anyone build a 7 X 57 or any of it's family members when better choices are available.....is nostalgia that rampant?

My son just killed his first elk with a 7X57 on Dec 2 in area 6B here in Arizona. Obsolete? You must be kidding. I don't mean because of the above statement either. The 7X57 is alive and well and will be around for a long time.

The 8x57I(R)S are still as popular as ever in Europe. The 7x57 is commonly seen, but obviously suffering from the popularity of cartridges such as the 7x64 and .30-06.

Still, I'm having a 7x57 built next year - it is the perfect choice for an intermediate action. Mild mannered and absolute dynamite on medium sized game. Great cartridge!

Popularity with the general public is not necessarily a good indicator of true value, there are just too many factors involved. Besides, for the true rifle aficionado what Joe Average likes matters a lot less.

Long live the x57 family!!

- mike

I'm afraid I must agree that the 7x57 family has been almost completely dropped by the US market. Which I feel is a shame.

I could not convince my wife to use anything else. She has used her 7x57 on hog, deer, elk and it will go with her to Namibia in May.

I can't argue that the 7x57 can do anything that the 308 family can't. I for one prefer the long mild taper over the show fat 308 case.

While it will be a custom/handload market her in the states I can't see it going away in other countries.

Vapo

Actually, the 8x57 preceeded the 7mm version by 4 years so it's more correct to say the "8x57 family."

I suppose it all depends on what your definition of obsolete is. Some would say that the 30-06 is obsolete, or the 308W, or the 222 Remington, for example. Some cartridges may seem obsolete when they really aren't. Take the 30 and 35 Newton, for example. Aren't some of the new, modern, chic cartridges nothing more than a Newton with a different headstamp?

I'd be interested in what you think are the "better" cartridges. Better in what way? Ballistically? Looks?

But, it's going to be interesting reading on these cold, dark, winter days and nights.

Ray

VD! you just ruined my day. roger

Vapo, In a word... yes.
Several years ago a guncrank friend of mine who happens to be a pretty good smith found himself to be "financially embarrassed". He allowed me to ransom a rifle chambered in 7 x 57 that had a small ring mauser action, a hand carved mesquite stock, 26" Douglas tube and Timney Trigger. Loaded w/ 140 gr. nosler partitions over H414 it shoots awfully sweet. Never fails on white-tails and hogs. Makes me nostalgic just to think about it. But I like the 7's. I have rifles chambered in 7-30 waters, 7-08, 280 rem. inproved, 7 mag, and 7stw. And now that you mention it I have been thinking for about two months of building a sweet 257 bob, or maybe his improved cousin.
Then again, my wife and kids have begun telling me that I'm obsolete!
GWB

quote:

The 7 X 57 and all it's family members (the 6mm Rem, 257 Roberts, 6.5 X 57, and 8mm Mauser) are obsolete.

In the USA.....maybe.

Tothose that have asked:
I consider a round to be obslete when none of the manufacturers chamber for it anymore.....at least obsolete here in the states as the Eupopeans chamber many things we don't here.....such as a 24 Ga shot shell!

I also consider it obsolete when the only ammo I can find is sub standard for a modern arm.

I consider the 25-20 to be obsolete even though I can still get ammo for it.

Hey....just calling a spade a spade......and I have said many very kind things about this family.....nice bunch of folks......but if you want one have it custom built....or find one on the used market!.......as it's obsolete.

The 7x57 is king...
How many would you like to buy?

It seems that when a cartridge is just about done for because of neglect by the shooting public, it is suddenly remembered as one of the greatest cartridges ever built and the resulting hue and cry drag it back from the brink.
As long as folks want something "a little different" you will have rifles chambered in 7x57, 8x57, 7x64, 6.5 Swede, etc. I would imagine they will be around longer than the new, cunning, little shorties.
According to your criteria, that doesn't keep them from being considered obsolete however.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
Vapo
"

I suppose it all depends on what your definition of obsolete is. Some would say that the 30-06 is obsolete, or the 308W, for example.

Ray

Ray, I explained my definition of obsolete......would you please explain your comment on the 30-06 and 308 Win.....

As it stands...just about anyone in the world that makes firearms chambers for these rounds and ammo is available almost everywhere on the planet and in just about any bullet style and weight imaginable!

Now I am depressed. My 6mm Remington chambered
Savage, is obsolete. Does that mean it won't
kill coyotes anymore

It probably does mean that I should lay in a
100 years supply of brass

Seriously, I would not be surprised to see
the 6mm Rem, or the 257 Roberts, come back
for some encore run, in a small selection
of factory rifles. There are only so many
new fat, or new fat eliptical shoulder,
cartridges that can get hyped, to sell new
rifles, before the pendulum swings back
to the oldies but goodies. But you may be
correct in saying the cartridges based on
the 8x57 case are slowly walking off into the
sunset. But I believe as long as some people
like "different", there will be reamers, and
brass. You can label them as you see fit.
I know I will die with a 6mm Rem. chambered
rifle. My son's can worry about getting ammo

Squeeze

Ok why would I want anything new that I can just buy off the shelf.
New is obsolete as far as I am concerned.
New depreciates as soon as I buy it.
New has no class.
New has no history.

If new performance is the Only criteria buy a 30/378 Weatherby.
I have no trouble buying or loading ammo for almost anything.

It is more than killing some animal or shooting holes in paper.

But on the other hand why should anyone give money to a gunsmith when he can buy a factory POS and be happy.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:Ray, I explained my definition of obsolete......would you please explain your comment on the 30-06 and 308 Win.....

Vapo

I didn't mean to imply that I think of the 06 or 308 as obsolete only that SOME people do. Your definition is different than mine and theirs is different than ours. As Bill Clinton said, "It all depends . . ."

I don't put much store by what the manufacturers do. Just because they no longer chamber rifles for the 7 x 57 doesn't mean the cartridge is obsolete. It only means that they think they can make more $$$ by hyping one like the 7 WSSSSM which does the same thing only in a fancier package. Then our so-called gun scribes will write it up in the magazines, shooters who believe their pap will start buying it and we're off to the races. Until the new 284 SSRAUM hits the front page . . .

Ray

quote:

So my question:.......why would anyone build a 7 X 57 or any of it's family members when better choices are available.....

OK Vapo, time to turn it back to you. What are these "better" cartridges, and why?

Ray

As mentioned, just because a round isn't factory chambered doesn't mean it is obsolete. The .25-35 was discontinued over fifty years ago, but Winchester made a few last year before they closed shop. I was lucky enough to get one and can now say that my .25-35 is more accurate and enjoyable to shoot (and just as deadly) than my formerly owned .257 WBY.

OK VD now you've gone and done it trouble maker started a match. You're gonna get a spanking

By your definition it is obsolete...but there are a lot of definitions of obsolete and most any cartridge could be declared obsolete in one form or another...

VD! I see your point and recognize that there may be some validity to it. Would you, however, be surprised to learn that there are more 8X57 rifles in the USA than any other center fire rifle? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
VD! I see your point and recognize that there may be some validity to it. Would you, however, be surprised to learn that there are more 8X57 rifles in the USA than any other center fire rifle? roger

Probably not at the rate I've been taking them apart!

Roger.....I've been consistant in using chambering by manufacturers as obsolescense. I think there isn't any of the "x 57" family chambered anymore.......and yes,..there may be a ton of 8 X 57s out there......funny as I never see any of them while I'm hunting!

You got next to a few folks with this thread but I understand what you are saying. All those you mentioned are great but the manufacturers are the ones letting them become obsolete in my opinion. You and I know how popular the 7x57 is but the marketing people rule I guess.

Actually Dwight, I think it's mostly a matter of ammo makers not able or willing to make 65,000 PSI loads for these rounds!

Many folks don't handload and the performance of these old milsurp rounds is pretty anemic at best!

Yeah marketing people are responsible for the:
.17 Rem
.22 Jet
.221 Fireball
.222 Rem Mag
.225 Win
.264 Win Mag
.375 Win
.356 Win
.307 Win
.256 Win
7MM Waters
The WSSMs 223, 243, 25,
The WSMs 270, 7MM, 300, 325
The SAUMs
The Ultra Mags
.280 Remington
.35 Whelen
.376 Steyr
.25/06
The Weatherby's
.300 Savage
.250 Savage

Most all of the above have came and gone in the life span of the Mausers

Marketing people can do some dumb stuff like offer a 350 Rem Mag in a model 7 of all things. Wonder how many people will get a scope cut from that little rifle.

Looks like the 300WSM will be here for a while. Rem is not doing much to keep the SAUM alive but I like my 300SAUM Sendero but if I wear out the barrel I am thinking of a rebarrel with the 350Rem Mag. That one may get obsolete one day also.

Obsolete?

In the sense of "no longer popular," yes.

In the sense of "outmoded," no.

One of the great, all-time rounds. For a plethora of reasons.

flaco

N.B. Hey. In a sense, one could claim that home cooking is obsolete. My supermarket is full of prepared foods.

I don't rank this as progress though.

Vapodog,

I almost thought, for just a moment, that this was written by Col. Charles Askins. But he always used the term 'moribund' when condeming certain calibers to the trash heap. He was a sly old coot that could really stir stuff up. So you're following in big footsteps.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Vapodog,

I almost thought, for just a moment, that this was written by Col. Charles Askins. But he always used the term 'moribund' when condeming certain calibers to the trash heap. He was a sly old coot that could really stir stuff up. So you're following in big footsteps.

I'll take that as a major league compliment.....actually the best post here is by Butchloc who hit the nail dead center....great post Butchloc!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
Yeah marketing people are responsible for the:
.17 Rem
.22 Jet
.221 Fireball
.222 Rem Mag
.225 Win
.264 Win Mag
.375 Win
.356 Win
.307 Win
.256 Win
7MM Waters
The WSSMs 223, 243, 25,
The WSMs 270, 7MM, 300, 325
The SAUMs
The Ultra Mags
.280 Remington
.35 Whelen
.376 Steyr
.25/06
The Weatherby's
.300 Savage
.250 Savage

Most all of the above have came and gone in the life span of the Mausers

Ireload2.....I edited your post a bit and I think you can add to that a very long list of rounds starting with the 220 Swift and work up to the 358 Norma Magnum!

That said......there's still no one in this country chambering for the Mausers

By your definition of obsolete, they are indeed obsolete in the US.

But I have a Ruger 77 Mark II in 7x57 and an older tang-safety 77 in .257 Roberts, and I would hate to part with either one.

VapoDog, I agree

#x57 obsolete? Nope!

Ive been playin with my 9.3x57 and having a blast. The x57 case is a fine cartrige. 9.3 232gr oryx bullet at 2485 fps is a fine load in a 9.3x57.

The wsm are just gimmicks like mini vans and hummers and women with tatoos on there ass

Nastolga? Is live and well. been to the drag races lately?

Let's see. I have a 7x57, 8x57, .300 Savage, 3 of those darn .257 Bob's, a .22 Hornet....none of which seem overwhelmingly popular anymore. Hmmmmmm.....maybe I'm obsolete!!

VD: I disagree. If I'm not mistaking, the Silver Lining Scholarship Rifle being built by some of the finest gunsmiths in the country, and funded by a few hundred of the members of this forum, to honor a deceased teacher and make a lasting memorial to her memory, is a 7x57mm. Tom P

7x57mm-

Check, and mate.

flaco

Vapo,
If you have loads of that obsolete 7X57 brass that you are going to throw in the scrap bin, let me know. I'll surely put it to good use. An 1895 Mauser was my first attempt at a custom rifle and I haven't forgotten it.
BJB

The marketing managers of Manufacturing companies are essentially the ones that try to diversify the product range and so create more calibers or different cartridges in the same caliber. I suppose they do that to re-vitalise the market on an ongoing basis for their survival, despite what we are seeing - that some are going bankrupt in any event (Winchester, Dakota, etc.) or just getting out of the business to cut losses (Musgrave & Vektor in S.A.)

The 7x57 may not be popular anymore, for a variety of reasons, but it is not outdated in my opinion, as it is still a very effective killer of medium game. Mild recoil, easy to reload with no funny quirks. Bullets are plentiful all over the globe.

Bullets kill - not the rifle or the cartridge, and we have very good bullets these days in both factory ammo and custom bullets for reloading.

In SA many 7 mm Mausers have been built on K98 actions over the last two decades and is still the 7 th most popular cartridge in SA according to a study that was done by the SA Hunters Association a year ago. Plenty Mauser intermediate actions are still floating around begging to be used in custom 7x57's. The only logical choice for anything smaller than a 30-06 !!! (In Scandinavia you may include the 6.5x55)

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by 7x57mm:
VD: I disagree. If I'm not mistaking, the Silver Lining Scholarship Rifle being built by some of the finest gunsmiths in the country, and funded by a few hundred of the members of this forum, to honor a deceased teacher and make a lasting memorial to her memory, is a 7x57mm. Tom P

and I couldn't think of a more fitting memory!

Please dont tell all the deer I killed with my 257R and 7x57. they would be crushed.

Perry

Point well taken ,VD. Good thread. roger