Part of the original post: "...is nostalgia all that rampant"? I guess I have to plead guilty. I have two 7-08's and one 7x57. I know logically that the ballistics are practically the same. But I sure enjoy going out with the cartridge that is more than 100 years old more than the newer one. In fact, I suspect my 7-08's are practically retired now that I have the 7x57. And I'm having a 257 Roberts built as we speak.

One of my favorite shooters is a mint 1895 Chilean Mauser in 7X57. I am sure it shoots better than 90% of the non-varmit caliber rifles sold new these days.

I may be obsolete as well, but still perform quite well. I have always liked the 7x57 and it is still my everyday game killer. Sure a 7-08 or .280 will work as well, but it just isn't the same. Fine accuracy, plenty of power and penetration, non-existent recoil are its attributes.

I got a 7mm Mauser at Greenfield's Estate Auction for $10 in 1965 at age 14.

That was my first center fire rifle.

I sold it in 1969, because it was not a 30-06 like my father's.

Oi, how I wish I could get that 7mm rifle back

Obselete is not the right word.
The rounds listed could be called impracticle for the avarage hunter who does not handload. (although they still will be usable)
But for a guy who hand loads the X57 rounds are great !. The .257 Roberts is a wondefull deer round that can be shot by anybody, and it preforms well from 20and22 inch barrels.
The 7X57 mauser from a modern rifle throated long is capable of pushing bullets out a lot faster than a 7mm08.
Obslete means they can't stack up anymore to the newer stuff, like a P-51 against an F-16.
Nope I like just about any cartridge , but the Roberts and the 7mm mauser are among my favorites...tj3006

I want the average Walmart outfitted hunter to think the 7x57, the 6.5x 55, the 257 Roberts, the 250 Savage, the 6mm Rem.. .are all examples of 'obsolete' calibers.....

that makes me all the more happier... in a world where you always need a bigger caliber next year than this year, to kill that big buck.. and designer cases are trying to become trendy.. like the Short Magnums and Super Short Magnums...

Yeah, I like to be thought of as old and square.. and all that negative stuff.....because it was those old guys, with all of those old 'obsolete' lever actions that got all the deer it seemed when I was young...

so now that I am older, old and obsolete and getting the bucks, sounds good to me!!!!

Yeah, I want me and my old obsolete 7mm Mauser in my Winchester featherweight out and hunting and getting the big bucks...

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
Obselete is not the right word.

The .257 Roberts is a wondefull deer round that can be shot by anybody, and it preforms well from 20and22 inch barrels.
tj3006

I have three mounted trophy deer. Two whitetails and a mulie. Two of them was taken with a single shot each from a.257 Roberts.

This is among the finest rounds ever chambered ever in history........and noone chambers for it today!.....except in custom rifles.

The 7x57 is going from strength to strenght in South Africa. Warrior says it is the seventh most popular in South Africa but in some areas it looks like more than that. I had problems with my rifle at a hunt last year and borrowed a 7x57 for a couple of days. It was much easier hunting with that than with my 308 especially the longer shots with wind blowing on the last two days. I am considering rebarrelling the rifle now or selling it and getting a 7x57. It is an old Musgrave rifle but with them out of business and with the relicensing of firearms more difficult now I must figure out what the easiest way would be. Who all can supply a 7x57 barrel in South Africa now?

Warrior didnt Musgrave go bankrupt as well? Do you have a 7x57? There are a lot of Musgrave rifles for sale still but nothing in 7x57 and one wonders if these Musgrave rifles are the real thing.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Actually Dwight, I think it's mostly a matter of ammo makers not able or willing to make 65,000 PSI loads for these rounds!

Many folks don't handload and the performance of these old milsurp rounds is pretty anemic at best!

Now there sir you have hit the source of the problem. But, in staying within the bounds of that statement, then the factory underloaded 30-06 it technically also obsolete. I'm not so sure though that I would call them "anemic". I sure as hell wouldn't want some yahoo mistaking me for a deer while using one of the "anemic" rounds. The fact that a 7MM 140 gr. bullets is an excellent killer of deer sized even at the advertised velocity of 2600 FPS is something to consider. While my handloads at 2800 FPS will reach out a little farther, I would not feel at all handicapped but factory velocities. Come to think of it, all but maybe three deer during my hunting career could just as easily been taken with that obsolete (?) doesn't have enough power, antiquated Winchester 30-30.
Paul B.

quote:

Warrior didnt Musgrave go bankrupt as well? Do you have a 7x57? There are a lot of Musgrave rifles for sale still but nothing in 7x57 and one wonders if these Musgrave rifles are the real thing.

Rat Motor,

I am not sure about the exact reason for Musgrave going out of business, but I do know that they sold part of their business to Vektor, which carried it on for a few years, and then closed that section of their business being non military.

There are still a few custom gun builders that will build a 7x57 for you. Sabi Arms can make one up for you with a Lothar Walter barrel. Then you have Thor Engineering in Pretoria, Truvelo in Mid Rand, and many private individuals like, Danie Joubert, Gerrie Coetzee, JJ Wapens, Ginger van Zyl, Steve Fourie, Kevin Healey, Con Grobbellaar and quite a few others.

Classic Arms also started to assemble rifles on K98 actions, but I have not seen their work.

The 7x57 is indeed a good choice - get one before you retire.

Warrior

It is sad there doesn't seem to be enough room for these old cartridges. At the same time, we here in the states are jumping on the short mag bandwagon without question. Seems we still have a millimeter problem in the civilian market, and to a lesser extent in the military with the 9m/m Luger. While the rest of the world limps along with the metric calibres, we content ourselves by reinventing the wheel with numbers such as the 325 WSM. Amazing, ain't it?
The good news, however, is that us gun cranks who have seriously worked with these moribund numbers know that they lack nothing and offer a mystique that newbies can't. There are no cobwebs on my old #5 Remington, and my Husqvarna in 8X57 is far superior to the 308.

quote:

I consider a round to be obslete when none of the manufacturers chamber for it anymore

Ruger chambers bolt guns for the .257 Roberts and the No.1 in 7x57, so neither is obsolete in the U.S.

The 7x57 is as obsolete as stockings and garters on a beautiful woman.

God bless "old school".

Some years back, I bet a friend who was into those haulin a$$ cartridges, that a 7x57 had better penetration @ 100 yds than his 7 mag. $20 was the bet. We used wet Atlanta phone books and guess what. The 7x57 had @ 30% better penetration with the same bullet loaded to factory velocities.
I still chamber for it & the 8X57 which I think is right there with the 06 as the most versatile caliber ever made (including all the nonsense offered today).
IIRC, Karamojo Bell shot a few hundred elephants with the 7x57.
Obsolete?? So am I.
I still hunt with a flintlock most of the time
Greg

I hunt with a guy that has shot 30 deer with various cartridges over the last 40 years.

He says that the 257 Roberts is the only cartridge that stops every deer in it's tracks.

But his other cartridges are all more powerful than the 257R.

I think he knows the 257R has less power, so he aims better.

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
IIRC, Karamojo Bell shot a few hundred elephants with the 7x57.
Obsolete?? So am I.

Greg

actually I believe that was several thousand elephants.....he also used the 303 brittish occasionally.

Full power factory ammunition, from US manufacturers, is available in 8x57 from Hornady and Nosler, and from Norma and S&B in Europe, but also commonly available here in the good ol' US of A. Or does full power ammunition have to be available from WW, Remington AND Federal to escape being obsolete in your view?

Which superior, non-magnum cartridge in 8mm were you referring to? If considering magnum cartridges such as 8mm Rem mag (also obsolete by your standards), and 325 WSM as being superior to 8x57, then there is little use for any non-magnum 7mm or 30 cal cartridge either.

Obsolete? Who cares? I quit worrying about that a long time ago.

As a young child I contracted Polio and was rather confined in what I could do on a daily basis.

Being I spent a lot of time at home my Mother ordered a subscription to the Readers Digest Book of the month club. I was a prolific reader anyway. She noticed I especially liked books about Africa and hunting and fishing journals. So thats what she ordered for me.

In the books about Africa there were many stories about W.D.M. Bell and one that really caught me interest.

The story of a pair of photographers from Kansas by the name of Johnson. They were wild life and nature photographers. They were a husband and wife team. His name was Martin and her name was Osa. Besides the camp duties Osa's other job was to cover Martins backside so the kitty cats didn't scratch him and also so he didn't become elephant toe jam. She did a very amiable job and they both died of old age back in the States.

Her rifle of choice. A Rigby made 7MM Mauser. When I finished reading their book I decided right then and there I was going to have a 7MM Mauser. To honor my heroine, Osa. My dream finally came true 5 years ago when I finished my Mauser. Nothing fancy, a VZ24 action, Krieger barrel and a good trigger setup. It weighs a RCH over 7#'s and I love it.

So I guess you can put me on the nostalgic side of the board. So I guess I'll just have to throw it away now, cause it's obsolete. Over my dead body.

Best wishes, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by STINGER:
The story of a pair of photographers from Kansas by the name of Johnson. They were wild life and nature photographers. They were a husband and wife team. His name was Martin and her name was Osa.

CONGORILLA roger

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by brayhaven:
IIRC, Karamojo Bell shot a few hundred elephants with the 7x57.
Obsolete?? So am I.

Greg

actually I believe that was several thousand elephants.....he also used the 303 brittish occasionally.

and a few hundred elefonts with the 6.5mm Mannlicher before he moved up to 7x57.

Im looking at barreling a trim pre64 to 30/06,but the 7x57 keeps tugging at me for consideration to be part of that trim carry rig,and rightfully so. The o6 is a bit much for most situations and the 308win dont have no where near same style grace&appeal as 7mauser.

If you come from the finer gun brigade,its rare that folk will ignore a fine custom 7x57 on a display table.Its a safe bet more would be interested in it that any 280rem or 7mm08.

quote:

actually I believe that was several thousand elephants.....he also used the 303 brittish occasionally.

According to Bell's tally in his book, Karamojo Safari, he killed 1,100 elephants.IIRC, 800 were taken with the .275 Rigby (7x57) and the rest with the 6.5 Mannlicher, .303 British and some British style big bore which he used under extreme circumstances.
Paul B.

/

Bell killed elephant with:

6.5x54mm
7x57 mm or .275 Rigby
.303 Br
.318 WR

The long 6.5 mm bullets bent on head shots
The 7 mm bullet was better
The .330 bullet (not .318) was more powerful and Bell described it as "ideal" as can be.

Fact is, it can be done with smallish calibers, but with carefully placed shots.

Warrior

Yes, nostalgia plays a part. So does class (as in classic). I must admit to general stubborness, though, and an unwillingness to "go with the flow". I just don't make for a good sheep. The .30-40, .38-55, .44 Special, 16 guage, 7x57, 8x57, 7.65x57, .280, .257 Roberts, and others will never be truly obsolete, but rather unneccessarily replaced. As long as I can still pull the handle on a reloader, they will be neither gone nor forgotten.

/

Vapo,

That's ok...I'm getting obsolete too! The older I get, the heavier and slower my bullets get.

Reckon you'll think the highwall I'm having done in 30-40 Krag is obsolete as well.

Obsolete is ok as long as it doesn't turn into irrelevant.

Hopefully narrow mindedness will be obsolete soon.........the 7x57 has been around for over 100 years. The WSSSSSSSSSSSSSSM's have more than a 100 years of catch up to do.

If it is then I need to go take the 7x57 brass out of my tumbler and put my 7mm bullets on EBay.

Naw! I think I'll just take it to the range tomorrow.

Just like the 9,3x62 got a new lease on life, having nearly been killed by the 375 H&H, I hope the 7x57 will gain its rightfull place again, as a caliber of choice for shooting small to medium game. Mild recoil, easy to reload and versatile with bullet weights ranging typically from 130 grains to 175 grains. A sensible caliber for most beginners.

The demise of calibers will continue as in the past, and many that we see on the shelf today will be gone in 10 years time.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by dotsix:
Yes, nostalgia plays a part. So does class (as in classic). I must admit to general stubborness, though, and an unwillingness to "go with the flow". I just don't make for a good sheep. The .30-40, .38-55, .44 Special, 16 guage, 7x57, 8x57, 7.65x57, .280, .257 Roberts, and others will never be truly obsolete, but rather unneccessarily replaced. As long as I can still pull the handle on a reloader, they will be neither gone nor forgotten.

Good post dot6. What ever happened to cartridge efficiency, balanced bore to case capacity, accuracy, adequacy, etc, etc along with the "class". Who really gives a rip about another 200fps, which takes a bunch more powder (muzzle blast, recoil etc) to achieve, just so you can brag at the range or on AR forums that you have the latest "mega magnum".
I think obsolete is defined as "no longer in use" or something close. From the posts here, the 7X57 will never be obsolete. Though I'd bet a bunch of those mega mags will be, as the market finds out they were totally unecessary, and comes to its senses

Give me a Ruger 1A in 7x57 topped with a 2.5x8 Leupy and I will be happy. I can take care of 95+% of all of my NA hunting.
A "perfectly balanced cartridge".

quote:

Give me a Ruger 1A in 7x57 topped with a 2.5x8 Leupy and I will be happy. I can take care of 95+% of all of my NA hunting.
A "perfectly balanced cartridge

Amen brother.
Paul B.