I know there are a whole lot of things to consider when thinking about getting a new rifle. Which rifle to get carries a lot of Threads to considerable lengths. But..., "How about the Cartridge?"

If it will be used for Up-Close Shots, we use a different criteria than when we want to use it at L-o-n-g Distance. If we are going after Varmints or for Bear, we would select a different Cartridge, based on what we intend to Kill.

Let's say you have narrowed the list down to 3-4 choices, what causes you to go with the one you eventually choose? What is it about the specific Cartridge Design Parameters that cause you to pick one Cartridge over the others?

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

i knew what I wanted 270win for deer.
Looked at used rifles for a while and they were priced at new rifle prices. Had some gift cards from wally world checked out there rifles and between a 700 and a mod 70 took the mod70 because the action was much smoother.

Am I going to enjoy shooting it enough to wear out the rifle?

I don't want a overbore cartridge.

Now there's a loaded question!
The way I see it, if a rifle isn't dedicated to one specific task, then the ubiquitous 30-06 will, more likely than not, do the job. So if it isn't a Palma or varmint rifle, and your not hunting the big bears, again the 30-06 reigns supreme. Are you a cowboy hunting the deep woods on horseback? If so, then the 30-06 probably isn't your cup 'o tea, but the 348 Winchester should be.
Then there is always the problem of who's rifle are you going to stuff said cartridge into

I do not look for popular.....I look for right.

This includes .280 Rem over the .270 Win. The 6MM Rem over the .243 Win. the .30-06 over the .30 caliber magnums, the .338-06 over the .338 Win Mag, the .257 Roberts over any other .25 caliber.

I ignore the RUMs, the WSMs, the SAUMs, the WSSMs as they just don't fill a need.

And, of course, I have not a prejudiced bone in my gun cabinet!!!

I've never really defined my criteria for cartridge selection, but I guess it would be called "balance". I own a 300 Savage, a 9.3X62, a 375 H&H, a 404 Jeffery and a 416 Rigby, among others. They all seem to do the job with the least amount of bluster, noise, recoil, weight, barrel erosion, etc. than most of the cartridges designed to be "better". I would also own a 30-06 if the legislation in France made it easier, so I do have one magnum, a .300 WinMag, which is just fine for almost anything I would go after that is a long way away.

I`ve two 30-06s that will do anything I`ve wanted to do with a rifle, the rest I bought just because I felt needed/wanted one. If I find they happen to work well for something after I`ve got them fine. If not I still enjoy trying to wear the barrels out of them

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
Am I going to enjoy shooting it enough to wear out the rifle?

If you want that as part of your criteria, so be it. What ever "you" consider when choosing a new Cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
i knew what I wanted 270win ...

"What" made you want it over something else?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I don't want a overbore cartridge.

Because?

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
Now there's a loaded question!
The way I see it, if a rifle isn't dedicated to one specific task, then the ubiquitous 30-06 will, more likely than not, do the job.

Why is that?

quote:

If so, then the 30-06 probably isn't your cup 'o tea, but the 348 Winchester should be.

And "Why" is that?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...I look for right.

This includes .280 Rem over the .270 Win. The 6MM Rem over the .243 Win. the .30-06 over the .30 caliber magnums, the .338-06 over the .338 Win Mag, the .257 Roberts over any other .25 caliber.

What makes one "Right" in comparison to the other one?

quote:

I ignore the RUMs, the WSMs, the SAUMs, the WSSMs as they just don't fill a need.

I don't have a "need" for one of them either(or not at the moment).

Happened to look at the Hodgdon Loads(2004 Annual Manual) for the 375RUM the other night. Noticed something I considered interesting about it. (This gets back to something "Idaho Sharpshooter" mentioned in the other thread.)

375RUM 250gr Barnes X Flat Base(MAX Loads)

H4831....103.0gr...3090fps..62,700psi
H4350......94.5gr...3010fps..62,700psi
H414........93.5gr...3006fps..62,700psi

Does any of that "consistency" look interesting to anyone?

What does that say for the Design?

quote:

And, of course, I have not a prejudiced bone in my gun cabinet!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I've never really defined my criteria for cartridge selection, but I guess it would be called "balance". ... They all seem to do the job with the least amount of bluster, noise, recoil, weight, barrel erosion, etc. than most of the cartridges designed to be "better". ...

Nice, well thought out reasons for those Cartridges.

A 300WinMag, 404Jef and a 416Rig for less bluster, noise, recoil??? Compared to what?

quote:

Originally posted by Ol` Joe:
I`ve two 30-06s that will do anything I`ve wanted to do with a rifle,

And you picked it over a XXX because? Wouldn't the XXX do just as well?

quote:

the rest I bought just because I felt needed/wanted one.

What about that "feeling" said get one instead of a different one?

quote:

If I find they happen to work well for something after I`ve got them fine. If not I still enjoy trying to wear the barrels out of them

Me too or I trade them off.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I don't want a overbore cartridge.

Because?

overbore=short barrel life=short accuracy life

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
Now there's a loaded question!
The way I see it, if a rifle isn't dedicated to one specific task, then the ubiquitous 30-06 will, more likely than not, do the job.

Why is that?

quote:

Well, um, a varmint rig like the 22-250 or 22 Swift is just that, a varmint rig, but the 30-06 is certainly the most flexible and useful calibre in existence.

quote:

If so, then the 30-06 probably isn't your cup 'o tea, but the 348 Winchester should be.

And "Why" is that?

There just ain't that many model 95s around, so the model 71 is the next best thing. Can you imagine the Marlboro Man with a pump action Remington

quote:

Let's say you have narrowed the list down to 3-4 choices, what causes you to go with the one you eventually choose? What is it about the specific Cartridge Design Parameters that cause you to pick one Cartridge over the others?

Man that is a hard question and a good one too.

Well I can give one example.

I was looking for a cartridge for animals in the size range of deer/ caribou.
That left me quite a few choices in numerous calibers and cartridge designs.

So I had from .244 up to .284 to choose from as 30 cal was covered quite nicely.

Power was a consern, enough to do the job at reasonable ranges but not too much as to destroy a lot of meat.

Shootability was also important and also went hand in hand with power. Recoil had to be moderate in a light rifle with a medium length barrel.

Being a reloader the cartridge would have to have availability of good components and factory ammo would also have to be available if one got into a pinch.

Information garnered from a wide range of shooters and hunters on effectiveness of cartridges in my area of choice.

6.5x55 Mauser. Can get Lapua brass anywhere at a reasonable price. Will kill anything I know.

I have used several rifles for deer and the 270 workes the best for the type of hunting terrain.
north central WVa mostly.
I have a 35 remington that is ok in close wooded ares and the 30/06 with 168gr bullets just didnt get it, the 25/06 works pretty good with 100gr noslers and the 243 was a dissapointment. in its ability to take deer at 300yrds +.. no matter where you go ammo is not hard to find for the 270, over some like my 7mm, one year i was short on 7mm ammo and could not find what I wanted any where.
this is the third 270 that I have owned and its killing powere is amazing, I have never had to chase down a deer as I did using the 06's. the 7mm and my 300win mag just seems to blow them up, all kinds of meat damage. I used a 264 win mag for a while and it was really a good long range rifle but it shot out after a couple years. I used it on varmints too.
I even killed a 800 pound bull elk with the 270 at 220 yrd with 150gr round nose remington core lok. it ran about 50 yrds.
To sum all up, there are other cartrages with the same results the 280 being one of them but they just didnt have the backing 30 years ago whe I got my first 270.

Hot Core,

After the selection criteria you've mentioned has been met I'd further narrow it down by:

Game to be hunted; size, weight, habitat and type of action/rifle the cartridge would be chambered in.

The Cartridge's track record, is it a proven performer or are there fly's in the ointment? An example of somethig I'd avoid is a cartridge that is known for reduced case life due to certain rifle types, case stretching or one requiring a "custom" chambering for enhanced performance such as improved Free-Bore or Leade, etc.

Ammunition and Component availability. Brass Cases, Good bullets in appropriate weights, Dies that aren't too expensive.

Do I need an extra-long barrel or will it work as a "Stubby" or conventional length?

Having said that you can pretty much surmmize I'm pretty conservative - true; for me loading 20+ cartridges is about all I can cope with at the bench and for componets, ect. and I don't have any Wildcats (I am considering, my first; a .22 K-Hornet). For others this is probably not a big deal.

Have Fun!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
...overbore=short barrel life=short accuracy life

What cartridges do you consider as being "overbore" and what makes them overbore?

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
There just ain't that many model 95s around, so the model 71 is the next best thing. Can you imagine the Marlboro Man with a pump action Remington

So, are you making your "Cartridge" decisions based on what is available in a specific action?

quote:

Originally posted by Hipster:
... Power was a consern, enough to do the job at reasonable ranges but not too much as to destroy a lot of meat.

Shootability was also important and also went hand in hand with power. Recoil had to be moderate in a light rifle with a medium length barrel. ...

I pulled these two sentences out because they lead me to ask, with those requirements, what information did you use to reach your Final Selection?

quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:
6.5x55 Mauser. Can get Lapua brass anywhere at a reasonable price. Will kill anything I know.

Interesting response and all true.

But other "Cartridges" would do the same thing and also have Lapua cases available. How did you narrow it down to the 6.5x55?

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
...To sum all up, there are other cartrages with the same results the 280 being one of them but they just didnt have the backing 30 years ago whe I got my first 270.

Would you say your initial decision to go with the 270Win was based on what you had heard and read about it's On-Game Performance?

And that with your First-Hand Experience, it has simply proved what you originally decided was true?

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
...Game to be hunted; size, weight, habitat and type of action/rifle the cartridge would be chambered in.

The Cartridge's track record, is it a proven performer or are there fly's in the ointment? An example of somethig I'd avoid is a cartridge that is known for reduced case life due to certain rifle types, case stretching or one requiring a "custom" chambering for enhanced performance such as improved Free-Bore or Leade, etc.

Ammunition and Component availability. Brass Cases, Good bullets in appropriate weights, Dies that aren't too expensive.

Do I need an extra-long barrel or will it work as a "Stubby" or conventional length?

Hey Gerry, Nice list. Now once you have that information, how do you narrow down the choice to one "Cartridge"?

quote:

Having said that you can pretty much surmmize I'm pretty conservative - true; for me loading 20+ cartridges is about all I can cope with at the bench and for componets, ect. and I don't have any Wildcats (I am considering, my first; a .22 K-Hornet). For others this is probably not a big deal. ...

20+ cartridges? Did you have a tough time deciding , or go with, "I'll just load ALL OF THEM!!!"

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
...what causes you to go with the one you eventually choose? What is it about the specific Cartridge Design Parameters that cause you to pick one Cartridge over the others?

Good question, but one that can be answered very easily by some on this forum: Jack O'Connor put the 270 Win bug in my ear and that's good enough for me!

at the time I was hung up on the ole 30/30 and the 300 savage. this was around 1970 when deer hunting was not as good as it is now.
most of the old timers used 30/06 or 35 remingtons. when they started switching to the 270 and the 7mm It only made sense to follow.
They were all experienced and what did I know.
afte 35+ years of hunting and collecting rifles.
Like most of the cranks around her I have a rifle to fit most any contition and hunting adventure. The one thing that i notice now with the older hunters is we will have a descent scope on our rifles because we cant see as good.
There is a long list of cartrages that will fit into each group of game hunting varmint and so on.
The only exception I have to the 270 is I dont think I woud hunt lion, cape buffalo, or grizzle with it. may be time for a 375HH or a 458winchester AH a 5 something in a TREX

I recently got a .257 Roberts and the reason I picked it goes like this:
When I was 14 years old my dad was planning a deer hunting trip where the shots were potentially a little longer than what he thought I could handle with the old .32 lever action so he tells me we are barrowing my great grandmothers M70 257 Roberts that she had used on Mule deer for years.
I read everything a kid could read about a .257 Roberts and memorized its history and ballistics with every available factory loading. When we went to grandma's house the rifle was no longer there it had been sneaked out of the house by a relative and sold. I was absolutely devastated, completely and utterly let down and I never really got over it and knew that someday I would have my own .257 Roberts.
I have one now that is all mine!

I mainly buy older classic rifles so cartridge choice is secondary. The current "new" cartridge specific decisions I've made were the 25 WSSM and .204 Ruger. The 25 WSSM is unique and with the case design I had to have one. Fantasic cartridge!

I was looking to add to my varmint cartridges and the high velocity - no recoil and great feedback led me to the .204 Ruger. A real winner!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I've never really defined my criteria for cartridge selection, but I guess it would be called "balance". ... They all seem to do the job with the least amount of bluster, noise, recoil, weight, barrel erosion, etc. than most of the cartridges designed to be "better". ...

Nice, well thought out reasons for those Cartridges.

A 300WinMag, 404Jef and a 416Rig for less bluster, noise, recoil??? Compared to what?

OK, I'll bite. I've got a 300 Savage, but it's not quite enough for African plains game at distances. But since the 30-06 is administratively complicated to own in France I've got the WinMag. Compared to what? The 300 Weatherby, the 300 RUM, the 30-378, the 300 Dakota, etc. Those are all more than I need, noisy, high pressure cartridges which need long barrels to be worth it, blah, blah, blah.

For the 9.3 X 62, there is not much to compare to it, except maybe the 35 Whelan and 9.3 X 62 ammo is more readily available everywhere I hunt. It's an incredibly versatile cartridge for just about anything except long range hunting. Felt recoil seems less than my 300 WinMag, what's not to like?

The .375 H&H, everything's already been said a million times by others, I have nothing to add.

The 404 Jeffery. Show me another cartridge that shoves a 400 grain, .423" diameter bullet out the muzzle with 4000 ft/lbs of energy with less powder, less pressure, less muzzle blast and less recoil. When you find it let me know and I'll know what to compare it to.

The 416 Rigby. Maybe I've been shooting my big bores too much, it doesn't seem like a big deal of cartridge to me. All the other cartridges I have tried that acheive 5000 ft/lbs of energy, except for some of the old Nitro Express cartridges, seem to do it with more pressure, more muzzle blast and more recoil. But I haven't enough experience with the double rifle cartridges to make much of claim for this. But compared to 416 Weatherby or a 416 Dakota, for instance, the 416 Rigby seems to be enough gun.

Your turn Hot Core.

Hot Core-

Hi,bud. Now, what is this "narrow it down" stuff?

My criteria are...

- Does it give me emotional (not "reasoned", but "emotional") warm & fuzzies? Yes = +5

- Do I already own more than two of them? Yes = -.01

- Did the one I had years ago, turn out to be useful, fun to shoot, "neat"? Yes = +1 @

- Have I read about and lusted for one of these since I was 9 years old?(covers almost all guns made before I was 9 years old) Yes = +9.5

- Will I actually starve to death & die from lack of food money if I buy this one? Yes = -1/2

- If dire need arose, could I actually "injun-up" on an enemy with it (perhaps a member of gov't here "to help me"), and get HIS rifle and ammo? Yes = + .005

Do I have any unspent money in my pocket or left on my credit card? Yes = +10.

There's more, but as you can see, the "+"s have already away out-weighed the "-"s, So, once again, what is this "narrow it down" delusion?

Best wishes,

AC

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
There just ain't that many model 95s around, so the model 71 is the next best thing. Can you imagine the Marlboro Man with a pump action Remington

So, are you making your "Cartridge" decisions based on what is
available in a specific action?

Well yes, and no. In general I choose a cartridge of repute in the bore diameter I think best for the game at hand. Sometimes action choices have a bearing, sometimes not. I do like rimmed cases for lever guns and double rifles. The rimless family is at its best in bolt guns. That is, after all, part of the fun of gun buying, no?

On that note I will say 99% of hunting can be handled by the venerable -06, but it isn't always the best choice. I do believe that serious hunting calibres start at .284" and go up to .375". That leaves out the 6.5s and 270, all good calibres in their own right, but that's the way I see it.

Having said that, what gets left behind are the large bore calibres not needed for the 4 legged denizens on this continent. Left out too are the modern short/fat members that merely duplicate existing cartridges. You will not find a WSM, WSSM, or a SAUM in my collection. In fact, of all the johnny come lately calibres, I like the 338 UM best of all.

So when all is said and done, I guess the answers are 30-06 and that I'm pragmatic.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
...overbore=short barrel life=short accuracy life

What cartridges do you consider as being "overbore" and what makes them overbore?

When a cartridge delivers large energy compared to the bore diameter it is an overbore cartridge(7mmSTW,30-378,270wsm,270Weatherbymag,7mmRemMag,257Weatherby Mag,)

Well, I miteswell(might as well) go on and ask what I've REALLY been wondering about. I'd noticed "Idaho Sharpshooter" touched on it in the previous thread.

Maybe "IS" and I are the only folks to do this, but I'd guess many of you do/did, but just forgot to mention it.

Did anyone look at a Load Manual BEFORE deciding on a specific Cartridge??? Comparing not only the Velocity, Trajectory and recoil, but things like the Load Density, consistency of the various Load Pressures, and if it performs well with more than one Powder.
-----

My first three firearms were old and used which showed up for my 6th Christmas. Didn't get ANY ammo until the 7th Christmas and that was a box of 22 Rim Fires and a box of .410s.

Not sure if the first Centerfire I got to shoot was a 303Sav (M99), one of the local Wildcats, or the great old 30-06. Lots of shooting by everyone back then.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Well, I miteswell(might as well) go on and ask what I've REALLY been wondering about. I'd noticed "Idaho Sharpshooter" touched on it in the previous thread.

Maybe "IS" and I are the only folks to do this, but I'd guess many of you do/did, but just forgot to mention it.

Did anyone look at a Load Manual BEFORE deciding on a specific Cartridge??? Comparing not only the Velocity, Trajectory and recoil, but things like the Load Density, consistency of the various Load Pressures, and if it performs well with more than one Powder.

On a serious note, HC, no, I never approach choosing a new cartridge that way.

The most important thing to me is the rifle, not the cartridge. Almost all rifles sold as hunting rifles are chambered for cartridges which will get the job done. I pick the rifle(s) I like, then choose whichever of their chamberings seems to me will do what I want the rifle for. 15 or even 50 extra yards of range is not important to me. I already know how to hunt, and if I didn't, I could learn.

Rifle handiness, weight, size, quality of fit & finish all mean more to me than powder burning efficiency, +/- 200 FPS velocity, or how "perfect" the cartridge design is.

That won't row everyone's boat, but it moves mine.

I consider each rifle a tool. I was taught young to use the right tool for the job. So, to decide what rifle to use, you have to give thought as to what you want to accomplish. Are you shooting prairie dogs, whitetails, or are you hunting dangerous game? Is it for punching holes in paper? What are the likely distances? Is ammo readily available? How much can I afford to shoot a cartridge that costs $3 per round? Am I comfortable with 'magnum' recoil?

Sorry, Hot Core, didn't clarify myself too well at the end of the thread. I load for 20+ different rifle cartridges and always seem to need more of the the one cartridge I've decided to use for a particular hunting scenario and am running low on. Bad management of my part.

1. .22 Hornet
2. .222 Remington
3. .223 Remington
4. 5.6X50R
5. .243 Winchester
6. 6.5X57R
7. .270 Winchester
8. 7X57R
9. 7X64
10. 7X65R
11. 7mm Rem. Mag.
12. .30/30 Winchester
13. .308 Winchester
14. .30/06 Springfield
15. 300 Weatherby Magnum
16. 8X57IS
17. 9.3X62
18. .375H&H
19. 45/70
20. .458 Win. Mag.

The one's in RED are cartidges I load for my hunting Buddies. Plus pistol & revolver cartridges.

.32 ACP
.38 Special
.357 Magnum
.44 Magnum

I reload simply because I think I can make better performing, more accurate ammunition ans in siome cases Specialty ammunition for myself (and others) and I get alot more bang for the Buck.

As you can see they are all pretty straight forward, vanilla-flavored Tried & True cartridges that ended up coming along after my first .30/06 Sprg. but Yeah, I could do 85% of the hunting I do with that one cartridge anyway, so excpet for the "I want & Gotta Have" syndrom they're all pretty much Icing on the Cake. A couple are done up is "Specialty" Rifles, the .222 Remington (target), the 7mm Rem. Mag. (Lonf Range Bench Rifle), the 9.3x62 set up especially for Drive Hunts, etc. and a couple of varmint rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Did anyone look at a Load Manual BEFORE deciding on a specific Cartridge??? Comparing not only the Velocity, Trajectory and recoil, but things like the Load Density, consistency of the various Load Pressures, and if it performs well with more than one Powder.

I did. I have a Win 1895 chambered in 30-06 but it only has open sights and cannot readily accept a riflescope. So I decided to purchase a new rifle that could, and be as modern a design as possible. I bought a used Blaser R-93 in 300 WSM. I figured I can still feed it '06 strength ammo if I wanted to duplicate the '95. The Blaser isn't made in 300 SAUM caliber, which I don't think is long for this world anyway. There's tons of reloading data for the 300 WSM, it's not a finicky case to reload, and unlike some turnbolt rifles chambered in this caliber, it feeds these short, fat cases reliably from the magazine.

That was my decision-making process.