If each gun is different and has a unique frequency, does it even help to try other peoples recipes?
If they worked would it be blind luck?
If we both have Browning A-bolts in 300wsm, would the same load work the same in each out of the box? I assume not, but please correct me.

I'd say yes, definitely. I've taken loads from this site and found then excellent "striaght out of the box" I know it's saved me a ton of time ladder testing and a shit load of money if somebody else had narrowed down the sweet spot. There are also those loads which are inherently perfect, the old 38gns of H380 in 22-250 scenario pops up time and again (although I believe it's more like 40 grains now!)

I would say it's more a-kin to barber shop talk....us guys like to talk about shooting and our loads are something we like to share.

The "common wisdom" on a given cartridge and bullet weight is more often than not a good place to start working up a load for your given rifle. It may or may not be an acceptable load for your rifle. Benchrest shooters will probably have to process quite a few loads to get the best load for their rifle. Most folks will be satisfied with the first load that shoots "good enough".

Rifle shooters have a choice of dozens of powders and bullets. Spending the money to buy half a dozen different bottles of powder, several different brands of primers and a selection of bullets can cost hundreds of dollars. It makes a lot of sense to start with something that works for others even if it might not be the very best combination in your given rifle. Remember that a lot of us reload at least in part to keep the cost of shooting down.

For me, it is always good to get one load in the books for a given rifle that shoots 1 MOA fairly reliably. I can go back later and load for more speed or try and find a load for a bullet that has better impact performance. For that first load in a caliber that is new to me I am going to choose a recipe that has worked for a number of people in many different rifles. Haggis' suggestion of 38gr. of H380 in a 22-250 is a good one. It seems to work in such a wide variety of rifles that many will tell you that if your rifle doesn't shoot that load, there is probably something wrong with that rifle. Sounds like a good place to start for me!

For me it is always place to start. Sometimes it is were I end back up at. Once in a while it's a standard load like a .223 or .308 Match load to across the course. It's also a good sanity check.

Seeing what others use helps eliminate the components that don`t seem to do well. If 10 people answer a request for a load and 7 of them claim 50 grs of powder XXXX and a 150 gr bullet shoot well for them, it sure helps narrow down the powder and bullet wgt you probably will have best luck with.
If you think a given load is cut & dried great in most rifles because some inter-net forum members like it, you`re only fooling yourself.

While you can almost never safely just put it together and shoot 'em, sometimes the loads are very consistently good. Loading manuals give a sampling of powders and bullets. Frequently they give a "most accurate" load. Usually that "most accurate" load is applicable to many if not most rifles, give or take a half grain of powder or so.

Examples - 45 grains Varget in a .308 pushing 150s or 51.5 grains Varget in a 30-06 pushing 150s. These loads typically are very accurate in most rifles. Improving them is likely to be as much a seating depth adjustment as powder charge.

You cannot assume that a load like above will be accurate for your rifle though. You just might have the rifle that flings them like a shotgun pattern.

I read shared info to get a feel for how different powders and bullet weights seem to perform in a given cartridge.

On the other hand, I seldom start with a load recommended to me unless my previous experience with that powder in other cartridges suggests it is definitely a light pressure load.

Again, the 38 grains of H-380 load in the .22-250 is a good example. I didn't have a feeling that the 38.0 grain charge was likely to be a light or maybe even moderate pressure load, based on my own experience with that powder in other cartridges. So, I started with 35 grains. Good thing I did, too! In all MY .22-250 rifles, 38 grains has proved too hot for my routine use.

Perhaps that is just my lots of H-380. But it is a fact, none-the-less. About 36.5 grains of H-380 is as high as I care to go in my .22-.250 rifles.

So, I'd say, shared info can give you an idea of what MAY work well, but as with any data from any source, I recommend you start somewhat lower and work your way up.

Powder lots vary, rifles vary, and some folks think nothing of operating their guns with far heavier charges than "suit my pistol".

Cheers.

braggin
using different powders
using different bullets
using different lengths
NEVER as a STARTING point, but as a "i'll back off from there" point

I think as posted it helps eliminate the pointless powder of bullet combinations that just aren't going to work.

For example in 303 British there are just some powders that can NEVER obtain factory specification velocity in the case capacity available or at safe pressure...despite what the manual would have you believe.

It also helps with the "exotics" such as 240 Nitro Express or the "less common" such as 35 Whelen that until recently wasn't a cartridge in most manuals.

Plus the "new" such as 338 Federal that again will save some updating their Speer No9 Manual just for that one cartridge.

I don't reply to most posts asking for load data because working up a load tells you a lot and I feel that each shooter should actually learn how to do this. Just getting a load from someone else who has done the work teaches you nothing. But--sometimes there are people asking for data--recipes are for cookies-- for cartridges or powder or bullets that are new and not much is published about them. And--- sometimes someone does the work and comes up with a really good load using a powder that no one else has tried or at least published--that has happened at least once that I know of.

The safe thing to do is to buy the manuals and keep within their published tolerances. If you live on the edge---sometimes you come across good things--sometimes they blow up in your face--which kind of shooter are you?

There is such a thing as a "magic load"...

A "magic load" being defined as one that works for many, if not most guns of the same calibre...

For instance in the 308, there is the Federal factory 168gr Match...

If your 308 does not shot this load good, there is probably something wrong with it...

Oh, it might shoot some loads as good, or even a little better, but this load is a real winner.

There are other "recipes" for other calibres, and all of them have not been discovered as of yet....

Which is why it is a good idea to share...

Rule No1, as always, start low and work up...

quote:

Originally posted by Mort Canard:
Most folks will be satisfied with the first load that shoots "good enough". ...

Without Developing the Load specific to your own firearm, using your specific off-the-shelf components, you will never have a clue just how well a firearm has the potential to shoot. I agree with the above quote and believe it is how the ignorance of a "Universal Load" came into being. Then people relate their "Universal Load" to others and a Fabel is born.

The Manuals which list "Accuracy Loads" do perpetuate the foolishness. One of our old posters, Rookie Green, got laughed off the Board because of his "optimum charge weight" loads. No doubt they worked "good enough" in some rifles, but there is a BIG Problem. Anytime a person simply dumps in a Load, without Developing from below, there is a potential Safety issue. Not all firearms are the same, not all components are the same, not all Lots of components are the same. Therefore, "you, me, nor anyone" can possibly duplicate a Universal Load that may be SAFE in one firearm and reasonably expect it to be SAFE in ALL firearms.
-----

Perhaps an even better Example would help. I had a 444Mar Guide Gun. Nice rifle, but it was Blue and Termite Food which does not work well for me in the rain, dripping woods or foggy atmospheres I often hunt. The fine folks at Marlin brought forth the excellent XLR model in Stainless and Laminate, so I made a swap. As is usual for me, I loaded some of the Minimum Starting Loads from my old Hodgdon #26 and went out to break-in the barrel, check the Trigger, see how well the rifle fit and just have some fun. As an after thought, I measured the PRE on some Cases and found them to be at the SAFE MAX Expansion for the old Guide Gun. Huuuummm???

Just happened to have a new Speer #14 that I picked up while Gun Shop drooling. In it Speer mentioned the 444Mar Loads had been Reduced because Marlin had changed the Twist Rate. The old Starting Loads are now the SAFE Max for the XLR models - and my new XLR verified what Speer had found.
-----

So, I do not agree with Universal Loads, primarily from a SAFETY issue. But also because it can keep a person from ever discovering the real accuracy potential of their specific firearm.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills - with a properly Developed from below Load.

Any info is good! Sometimes what you thought was correct for a specific rifle/ cartridge may not be true. Type of powder, powder charge, bullet type, bullet weight, primer all play into what works best. I also look at the geographic location of the poster for average temperature, elevation, and average humidity to determine if a certain powder is an option. Example, .223 H335 loads that I develop in the summer at 90 degrees will not have the same POI (temperature sensitive) in 20 degree- weather, so options are great.

While there are a lot of us who try to find the best combination for their rifle(s), a lot of reloaders are mainly trying to feed their shooting habit with ammo that performs at least as good as factory ammo. They reload for economy and maybe a slight performance edge on the stuff from their local gunshop. They don't want to run through six different kinds of bullets and as many different powders and primers to get last 1/2" of group size out of a three or five shot group. I have seen quite a few reloaders declare their satisfaction with their 1MOA rifle if it can shoot a 1" group one time during a range session. Of course I have also seen a number of reloaders at the range who struggle to get better performance than 2"-4" groups. Some (but not all) of the local AR15 shooters and reloaders seem to be particularly bad about not being able to keep their groups in a 6" circle.

There are also the dogmatists who are dedicated to one bullet because the advertising worked on them. I have seen more folks who are looking for powder and primers to make a Nosler Partition work in their rifle because they think it is the only bullet that will work! Yes the partition is a good bullet but it does not work in every rifle.

When you look at serious precision load development for a rifle, you are talking several hundred dollars worth of components and quite a few trips to the range. That is more time and money than a lot of folks want to spend to come up with some "pretty good cheap ammo".

This is where load sharing on the 'net has some value. These folks want a combination of powder and primer that has a better than average chance of shooting well in their rifle. Yes you have to back off to a starter load and work up while looking for pressure signs, but it can save a lot fumbling with combinations that have a low probability of producing a good load.

On a personal note I had tried loading the 22-250 with IMR4895, IMR 4064 and IMR 4350 because that was what was on my shelf. I got some decent results but was still looking for a little better load. The agreement across the 'net was that H380 was THE powder for this caliber. So after seeing everybody's loads on the 'net I bought a bottle of H380 and worked up a load (from below) that was better than anything else I had tried before. In this case the "common wisdom" was correct for my rifle, or at least as good as I have found to date. I have found a number of good combinations of bullet, powder and primer on the 'net that I have worked up to good loads. That to me is the value of shared loads from shooting and reloading forums.

I tend to look as to what powder others are having sucess with in a given case size bullet weight combo. Take that as a starting powder.

In some of my rifles I've found accurate load data from Nosler as a good starting point. Others not. Probably 75% good.

Years ago I took delivery of 5 MKX viscounts in 270 for some people in our field office. I worked up a load of 130gr bullets and H4831. Darn if that same load didn't group sub MOA in all 5 rifles. I would have bet against that one.

The collective experience of this board has helped me save time and effort, and helped me with problems that had frustrated the hell out of me. Whatever your problem is, chances are someone else has already solved it! When I couldn't get my 7mm-08 to shoot, several board members suggested H4350, and my "good enough" group was suddenly 3/4moa. I had already been through three powders and two bullets.

So I guess you guys are saying that event hough each rifle is different, each caliber of rifle has a specific powder(s) that seems to work? Point taken.

"does it even help to try other peoples recipes?"

Not much, if any. Try it, ask what powder folks get their best results with in a certain cartridge and bullet weight. You'll get twenty resonses with a dozen different powder answers.

"If they worked would it be blind luck?"

Yep. If it works good for YOU, it's blind luck!

Okay, so some such "help" does seem to eliminate the really poor choices, but most of that kind of elimination you can do yourself just from reading your book data. If a powder is vastly to fast or slow you will see it reflected in the book data, leaving you with a potential of perhaps a half dozen possibles that will match the better of what you get from your posted question.

I don't think there is any magic in any specific powder. For many loads and rifles there are multipule powders that will do virtually as well if the right charge is found. Only that can explain why so many of us get our best performance with different powders!

Most of the time, I get best accuracy with either the powder that gives best book speeds or with the next one or two faster burning powders. So, for my uses, I've found IMR4064 to be the most flexible for several cartridges. Then I tried Varget and it is equally as useful. But all of that's for me, your mileage may vary!

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
So I guess you guys are saying that event hough each rifle is different, each caliber of rifle has a specific powder(s) that seems to work? Point taken.

I would say that each caliber and bullet weight combination has a group of powders with similar burn rates that work better than average for that application. It may or may not be the best for your particular rifle but that burn rate has worked well for a lot of folks. No particular magic about that powder or group of powders but it is a good place to start.