That's the only explanation I can can come up with for the difference in their reloading manual between the 2004 edition and the 2014 edition for .35 Whelen reloads.

In 2004, they show the max Reloader 15 load for the Whelen with 250-grain Hornady bullets to be 59.5 grains, producing 2550 fps; In 2014, they dropped the max down 54 grains and 2284!

Yes, I know every rifle is different, and not every book load is safe in every rifle, and what your rifle can safely achieve may be different from the manual, and you have to slowly work up to the max for your personal rifle, blah, blah blah.... My point is if you are a person, like me, who hates to go over "book" max loads, you would never come anywhere close to achieving the full potential of the Whelen! If I were new to reloading for this caliber, I wouldn't ever consider Re. 15 (IMO the best Whelen powder available) based upon Alliant's own recommendations.

I'm headed to the range this afternoon with 250-grain Speer bullets over Re. 15. My workup loads are from 54 grains up to 59 grains. The way I see it, my max load is still .5 grains below book max!

My research tells me that your 59g w/ a 250g is a very hot load.
I would NOT shoot it in my Whelen w/o working up the load.
The current Nosler data list a max load of RL 15 of 53g w/ a 250g NP
I worked up to 60g w/ the 225g. Avgd 2670 fps on the speed gun and 3/4" groups.
Good luck

The lawyers have caused all the powder companies to drop their loads.
My pet load was 58 grains with a 250 grain bullet.
54 grains is a joke.
I use Reloader-15 as my primary propellant. There has been no change in it's formula.

Just got home from the range. Fired a progression of loads from 54 grains, to 59 grains. Carefully inspected my brass after each shot, and never got the slightest indication of over-pressure. Bolt lift was the same throughout the session.

Velocity went up expodentially with each progression upward -- started at 2298 fps, and finished at 2553 fps (59 grains). Interestingly, accuracy improved with each step upward, until at 59 grains, I got a 5-shot ragged hole!

I think I found my Big Dawg load!

Found this online via Guns Magazine:

"The .35 Whelen, however, has some advantages over the .338, just as it does over the .375 H&H. While the .338 doesn’t normally split wooden stocks, it kicks hard enough to affect the aim of some hunters. Velocities are also high enough to cause occasional problems with cup-and-core bullets, but 250-grain cup-and-cores at 2,500 fps from the .35 Whelen works just as well today as it did in the 1920s—and don’t cost $1 a bullet. (One of the loads listed with 250s, 59.0 grains Reloder 15, appeared in Alliant data for many years, then somehow was dropped to 54.0 grains recently, for only 2,284 fps. I don’t know why, 59.0 has never shown the slightest indication of high pressure in any of my rifles with any 250-grain bullet.)"

You ain't the only one scratching your head.

quote:

(One of the loads listed with 250s, 59.0 grains Reloder 15, appeared in Alliant data for many years, then somehow was dropped to 54.0 grains recently, for only 2,284 fps. I don’t know why, 59.0 has never shown the slightest indication of high pressure in any of my rifles with any 250-grain bullet.)"

Simply a point of reference. Using any of the basic non copper 250gr bullets and RL15 burn rates in QL I get very similar calculations. I have never pushed a 35 Whelen so I'm posting this simply as info.

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 250, Speer SP 2453
Useable Case Capaci: 60.685 grain H2O = 3.940 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   84    47.20   2129    2515   34385   6988     92.8    1.436
-18.0   86    48.38   2180    2637   36715   7186     93.8    1.396
-16.0   89    49.56   2231    2762   39202   7376     94.8    1.354
-14.0   91    50.74   2282    2890   41855   7558     95.7    1.313
-12.0   93    51.92   2332    3020   44687   7730     96.5    1.274
-10.0   95    53.10   2383    3153   47713   7893     97.2    1.236
-08.0   97    54.28   2434    3288   50945   8045     97.8    1.200  ! Near Maximum !
-06.0   99    55.46   2484    3425   54401   8186     98.4    1.166  ! Near Maximum !
-04.0  101    56.64   2534    3565   58100   8316     98.8    1.132  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0  103    57.82   2584    3707   62061   8433     99.2    1.100  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0  105    59.00   2634    3851   66307   8537     99.5    1.069  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  108    60.18   2683    3997   70866   8627     99.8    1.039  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  110    61.36   2733    4145   75764   8703     99.9    1.010  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  112    62.54   2781    4295   81037   8765    100.0    0.982  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  114    63.72   2830    4446   86720   8814    100.0    0.955  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  116    64.90   2878    4599   92856   8859    100.0    0.929  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    105    59.00   2733    4147   79035   8190    100.0    0.998  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    105    59.00   2490    3443   53947   8524     95.4    1.164  ! Near Maximum !     

Pressure for 59grs of RL 15 and 250gr bullets ranged from 65,000-69,000. Maybe RL15 is a touch faster now days.

I shoot a lot of RL15 the closest would be my 380PDK. I have to slow QL burn rates down by about 4% to get actual results to match calculations.

Using the same slower rate pulls the above numbers down to around 61,000 and 2580 froma 22"

Again simply a calculation.

The old data with the Hornady bullet may still be valid, the new data built around the Speer bullet probably is too. 2 different bullets, 2 different max's.

I've contacted Alliant with this question and will post their response in this thread.

Funny thing is I can get 2280 fps out of a 250-grain Speer with my .358 Winchester. Guess I'll just sell the Whelen as redundant!

Looking back my old Hornady for example talked about running loads up until they either ran out of capacity or reach head expansion. QL show max pressure for the Whelen as 58015. If that pressure is correct I wonder if the newer manual are lowering (lawyers) loads accordingly?

Anyway QL calls 2400 for a 358W max while 2650+ for the Whelen.

  Cartridge          : .35 Whelen
Bullet             : .358, 250, Speer GRSLAM 2455
Useable Case Capaci: 60.809 grain H2O = 3.948 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 63000 psi, or 434 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

79 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
ReloadSwiss RS 60                  110.0     64.7     4.19    2694   100.0    62586    9252   1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Elcho 17                           109.4     64.3     4.17    2684    99.8    63000    9190   1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-17                 109.4     64.3     4.17    2684    99.8    63000    9190   1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H414                       108.3     64.2     4.16    2632    96.4    63000    9069   1.075  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 760                     108.3     64.2     4.16    2632    96.4    63000    9069   1.075  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 11                  106.9     61.9     4.01    2622    99.5    63000    8633   1.078  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon CFE223                      97.7     61.0     3.96    2619    99.7    63000    8537   1.079  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 511                110.0     65.7     4.26    2617    96.9    61236    9093   1.085  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Big Game                   103.5     61.8     4.00    2616    99.5    63000    8532   1.079  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550                    110.0     63.0     4.08    2609    98.4    60813    8956   1.098  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895                           103.0     57.7     3.74    2608    99.6    63000    8540   1.091  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon BL-C2                       98.2     60.1     3.89    2600    99.9    63000    8363   1.092  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203 old                      106.0     60.1     3.89    2598    99.9    63000    8348   1.099  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP3                         106.0     60.1     3.89    2598    99.9    63000    8348   1.099  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203B                         104.3     58.5     3.79    2598    99.6    63000    8436   1.093  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Bofors RP11 ~approximation         103.8     58.2     3.77    2596    99.3    63000    8472   1.092  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-15                 103.8     58.2     3.77    2596    99.3    63000    8472   1.092  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Raufoss RA11                       103.8     58.2     3.77    2596    99.3    63000    8472   1.092  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 748                      95.6     57.7     3.74    2595   100.0    63000    8040   1.086  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Rottweil R903                      108.4     60.1     3.90    2590    99.8    63000    8263   1.100  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 3031                           103.9     54.4     3.53    2583   100.0    63000    7599   1.092  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Wild Boar                   98.3     58.9     3.82    2582    99.5    63000    8290   1.090  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H380                       104.9     60.1     3.89    2582    98.4    63000    8493   1.096  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4895                      100.0     56.1     3.63    2581    99.8    63000    8229   1.095  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S355                       108.2     59.3     3.85    2581    99.7    63000    8256   1.098  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4320                           105.6     58.2     3.77    2578    99.5    63000    8150   1.080  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4064                      106.3     58.3     3.78    2577   100.0    63000    7813   1.119  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2206H                       100.3     56.2     3.64    2577    99.6    63000    8254   1.096  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 52                  103.8     60.1     3.89    2574    98.5    63000    8372   1.092  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lovex D073.6                       100.7     58.2     3.77    2573   100.0    63000    7804   1.104  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2520                       98.4     58.2     3.77    2573   100.0    63000    7804   1.104  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
SNPE Vectan SP 9                   101.0     58.4     3.79    2572    99.5    63000    8198   1.091  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 516                101.0     60.3     3.91    2572    98.3    63000    8378   1.090  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ReloadSwiss RS 50                  103.1     60.1     3.89    2570    98.5    63000    8309   1.094  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data     104.4     60.4     3.91    2565    98.4    63000    8263   1.094  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
PB Clermont PCL 507                 97.3     56.9     3.69    2565    99.9    63000    7987   1.094  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Somchem S321                        95.5     57.6     3.73    2564   100.0    63000    8012   1.099  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! 

Sorry to have to publicly display my ignorance, but I didn't quite catch the point of that second readout. Can you please 'splain it in English?

Seating, bullet "jump into the lands, BULLET TYPE AND OGIVE, case volume and barrel length are all things that many reloaders don't/can't take into consideration when comparing their velos to book velos...what THEIR oal and bullet is compared to what the book(s) are...

And...the fact that QL is just a mathematical construct...I don't know just how many loads they also actually test or if ALL the QL data is just number crunching on a computer.

Case in point...I just finished my 9.5x57...AKA 375 JDJ and wanted to compare it to my 375 Ruger and 375 H&H. I used 9.3x62 Hornady cases to for the X57 brass...all loads OAL's were assembled to ~0.010" of touching the lands and all loads worked through the magazines...same bullet, 270 gr RN(Hornady I think...seconds from Midway, no maker), RL-17 for the Ruger and H&H and CFE223 for the X57(best load by QL)...all loads were 95 to 100% volume for each case. The H&H had a 21" bbl, the Ruger a 24" and the X57 a 26". I also wanted to compare the H&H as it was originally had a 26" bbl.

The loads were shot over an Oehler 33 chrono with new batteries. You QL uses can check my data if you are interested.

375 H&H...270gr RN, 1.13" oal, WW cases 95.5 gr volume(almost the same as same as QL's) Fed 215 primers,3.60" COAL, 81.5 gr RL-17/99.6 % case volume...QL ~2738fs/~58.2KPSI...actual ~2700fs...SD 4!!!...and the difference between the 26" and 21" from past data...~125 fs.

375 Ruger...same bullet...Hornady cases, 100 gr case volume, F215, 3.40" COAL, 84 GR RL-17/94.9% vol...QL ~2782fs/~56.6KPSI...actual 2832fs...40 fs difference, but NORMAL NUMBER CRUNCHING DIFFERENCES.

9.5X57..Here is the rub between software and actual...Same bullet, Hornady cases, 69 gr vol., F215, 3.14" COAL, 61.5 gr CFE223/95.7% vol.,...QL 2572 fs...actual 2485 fs...~100 fs difference between QL and actual chrono readings.

THIS ISN'T SOMETHING NEW...CALCULATED/MANUAL and ACTUAL velos vary all over the place...I know...blah, blah, blah...it's those blah, blah's that are telling you what the hell and why and are something to listen to.

A variation between YOUR land beginning of 0.250" and the "BOOKS" beginning point caused by a difference in throat dimension, bullet ogive seating point can cause a variation of many fs and psi and the only way to know is to pressure test.

I have no way of knowing from what you presented to say if/if not you are running on the ragged edge or setting yourself up for a later problem, or a well within your rifles safe limits and it's impossible to actually say, but you seem to have a good grasp of what is going on.

I can say if you go that one step farther and DO check your Whelen chamber, the amount of "jump", test your rifle with the same bullets and COAL as the Manual you might get a better understanding...or not...it's YOUR rifle and YOUR bacon that's in the fire...so to speak.

Luck

quote:

Sorry to have to publicly display my ignorance, but I didn't quite catch the point of that second readout. Can you please 'splain it in English?

If you are talking about my post. It is simply the ranking of QL by velocity for the 35 Whelen. Using the posted data and 63,000psi or 110%of capacity as max. It actually has a lot more data but I simply stopped slightly below the RL15.

NONA I can't agree more. QL is simply a calculation. Nothing more. Yes it can be tweaked for your conditions and gotten closer to actual. However change rifles and you have changed the equation.

QL should never be taken as the perfect answer etc. It is simply another data point. Your rifle, chamber, case, bullet etc will give you the actual results. QL in their data lists "what ifs" for 10% burn rate variation.

Question: My Whelen has a massive freebore -- so much that if I load .010" off the lands with most bullets, the round won't fit in the magazine. With 220-grain Hot Cors, there is not enough bullet base left in the case to secure it from falling out. This is the only standard length rifle I've ever owned that has this problem -- and its a custom barrel, which usually has the opposite in terms of freebore amount. Therefore, I load just deep enough so my rounds fit in my magazine without any chance of binding.

How does this rather long bullrt jump affect my chamber pressure? I've always heard that keeping chamber pressure down is why Roy Weatherby built his rifles with a large amount of freebore. Is this true?

Yep it would lower the pressure.

Load from a Disk and Powley do the same thing.

"Freebore" has the same effect as increasing the case volume which does indeed reduce pressure. Using shorter, lighter than "normal" bullets can also impinge on the "freebore" due to different ogive points.

To gain back that pressure you need to increase the amount of powder which can increase velocity...

I have several rifles with the same "problem" such that individually each one requires 2-4 more grains of powder just to equal "non-free bored" rifle velos, sometimes at lower pressures and also allows me to increase the powder amounts and increase the velos.

I've used my 338-06 as an example many times here on AR...it's "freebore" or "jump", as it is sometimes called, requires 4 more gr of 4320 to equal most published velos for the 338-06 with a 225 gr Hornady SP and two more gr gives me ~2750 fs, almost equal to Hornady's 8th ed velos for the 338 Win Mag, without ANY SIGNS OF PRESSURE, long case reloading life...most cases have been loaded 25 times each...and I can equal AND beat Hornady's 338 WM loads and still get 10 reloads per case.

"Freebore" also can vary with the nose profile...RN, Spire or long pointy VLD ESPECIALLY.

Sadly...I think a lot of the hoohaw's on AR start with misunderstanding's of the what's and wherefore's of ballistics and mixing apples and road apples and not sticking to the original questions.


AS an aside...the case capacity of the 35 Whelen is listed as 70 gr H2O...my x57 is 69 gr for the 9.3 Horn case, 64.8 gr for a WW 30-06 case, 67 gr for a Horn 8x57 fire formed case. I measured them as I do routinely for all my cartridges.

Notice there is only one gr H2O difference between my fire formed 9.5x57, originally 9.63 x 62 case, and the amount given by QL.

While I'm responding/writing this tome I'm also doing load workup for my 9.5x57 and as examples weighed an empty RP 338-06 case at 71.5 gr and a new unfired WW 30-06 case at 69.1 gr.

If you are watching closely, you might be wondering WHY the shorter by ~0.240" 9.5x57 - 2.24" case has almost the same capacity as the longer ~2.48" 35 Whelen??????...it is because the original 9.3x62 Hornady case had a volume of ~78 gr H2O, and fire forming/trimming did the rest.

As is very evident...you need to keep ALL the factors in front of you and your wits about you when you are mucking about with this "stuff"...the devil is in the blah, blah's.


Luck

Not to mention that RL15 seems to vary quite a bit from lot to lot. My Merkel in 470 will regulate nicely from 2060fps to 2200fps with about any 500gr bullet. My first lot of RL15 averaged 2150-2160fps at only 85gr of RL15. The next lot needed 90gr to get to 2150-2160. The lot that I am loading out of now needs 87gr to get the same 2150-2160fps at 65-70 degrees temperature.

The original question on this post is one I have also been pondering. When I loaded my Remington 700 Classic .35 Whelen for Africa in early 2000, I went with 59.2 gr RL 15/Nosler 250 gr Partition/WLR primer/R-P brass/3.375" OAL (yes, it fits the magazine just fine). Velocity was 2586 fps. No pressure indications. This was when Alliant showed 59.5 gr RL15/250 gr ? went 2550 fps and pressure of 48XXX psi. I also took a load of 58.5 gr RL15/250 gr Swift A-Frame/2.29" OAL for 2533 fps. Also no pressure indications.
I just bought a fresh pound of RL15. I'm out of Nosler's and A-Frame's but have a fair supply of 250 gr Hornady's and Speer's. It should be interesting see what load I can work up to with the new stuff. Actually, I'm very hesitant to try much over 54 grains.

Well, if Alliant really has not changed their formula, as stated, then all you have to do is start working up and observe the signs until you either reach your target velocity, or pressure signs show up.

I got to 2550 with no problem. Granted, my Re. 15 is several years old, and I have two pounds of newer powder on the shelf. When I have to break into the newer stuff, I'll back off and work back up.

Okay, I just resized and primed the cases I fired at the range the other day with up to 59 grains of Re. 15 under the Speer 250.

After I sized them, all cases were still in spec., and all flash holes nice an uniform. When I primed them with an RCBS hand primer, all primer pockets were tight.

As far as I can tell, 59 grains is safe in my rifle!

BTW, I measured the difference between the seating depth I loaded them to the other day (where they were seated as far out as possible to still fit the magazine), and there was still a .127 jump for the ogive to contact the lands. However, accuracy is still quite acceptable, at right around an inch at a hundred yards. Next session, I'll move out to 200.

Beyond this I don't know what else to do to prove to myself that the old Alliant data is still valid -- in my rifle, at least!

Manufacturers
Alliant Powder and

Sweden. Made in 2 different countries. http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powder...tail.php?powder_id=9

I seem to recall, in every reloading manual, that each lot is to be assumed to be entirely different and loads should be worked up accordingly ---

and yes, loads have been reduced over time -- partially due to "lawering" up ...
'then due to the fact that so many people start at max book loads and "work up slllooowwwwlly" ...

and then due to safety ---

the last 100 FPS is VERY expensive, gentlemen -- in terms of pressure and wear

Alliant RL-15 is just another batch of Norma 203B. Norma sells the powder to Alliant and they repackage it.

Somewhere I saw they started adding the anti copper fouling additive in the past few years, but they didn't change the formula or advertise the new variant much

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Found this online via Guns Magazine:

"The .35 Whelen, however, has some advantages over the .338, just as it does over the .375 H&H. While the .338 doesn’t normally split wooden stocks, it kicks hard enough to affect the aim of some hunters. Velocities are also high enough to cause occasional problems with cup-and-core bullets, but 250-grain cup-and-cores at 2,500 fps from the .35 Whelen works just as well today as it did in the 1920s—and don’t cost $1 a bullet. (One of the loads listed with 250s, 59.0 grains Reloder 15, appeared in Alliant data for many years, then somehow was dropped to 54.0 grains recently, for only 2,284 fps. I don’t know why, 59.0 has never shown the slightest indication of high pressure in any of my rifles with any 250-grain bullet.)"

You ain't the only one scratching your head.

That's from a 2013 article by John Barsness. In it, while acknowledging that Alliant had lowered their listed maximum to 54 grains of Re. 15, he still listed 59 grains as his recommended load in his sidebar chart (with the normal legalese about how this load is safe in his rifle, but might not be in your's, start low, work up, Yada, Yada, Yada).

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
Question: My Whelen has a massive freebore -- so much that if I load .010" off the lands with most bullets, the round won't fit in the magazine. With 220-grain Hot Cors, there is not enough bullet base left in the case to secure it from falling out. This is the only standard length rifle I've ever owned that has this problem -- and its a custom barrel, which usually has the opposite in terms of freebore amount. Therefore, I load just deep enough so my rounds fit in my magazine without any chance of binding.

How does this rather long bullrt jump affect my chamber pressure? I've always heard that keeping chamber pressure down is why Roy Weatherby built his rifles with a large amount of freebore. Is this true?

Interesting. My 35 Whelen built in 1966 also has lots of freebore. Back then 250 to 280gr (an even 300gr) bullets were standard in the Whelen. So I can seat my 250gr Speers out to where they fit in the Magazine.

Because it is built on a 1903 MkI Springfield, however, I tend to keep my RL 15 and Speer 250gr loads at 53gr of RL 15 just to be on the safe side. Before switching to RL 15 my standard load was 55gr of IMR 4895 with the Speer 250gr bullet. But RL 15 is more accurate.

Barstooler

Yeah, the first time I ran an OAL gauge up the chamber, I like to have fell off my stool! Roy Weatherby would be proud of the way my "custom" barrel is reamed. All my other custom guns have the opposite problem -- very little, or no freebore.

The good thing, I guess, is my pressures are lower than rifles without much freebore, and I still get pretty good accuracy -- close to MOA, depending on the day and the load.

Here is a copy of what I got back from Alliant when I emailed them with this question:

"Since Speer manual #12, published in 1994, the load for the 35 Whelen has been 50 – 54 grains of Reloder-15 powder. It was at that time that Speer went completely to Piezoelectric transducer testing for pressures on cases. It was a much more accurate and scientific method of testing. This testing is the industry standard today. Another factor that enters the realm of the situation is that Alliant used to only shoot five shot strings in their testing. Today, Alliant is now performing testing the same as Speer, ten shot strings, a much more accurate system to use.
Between these two factors, use the Speer data which Alliant now uses also."

Now I know. Still, I'm not going to ever be satisfied with only 2284 fps!