My Father has been thinking of buying a 30-30 Handi Rifle. He wonders weather the hot loads like a .308 can be controled by the barrel or will the barrel be screwed?

The action will limit the pressure more then the barrel. The cartridges case is the weak link and will go before either usually.

There`s a lot of difference in max pressures between a 30-30 and a 308 (38000 cup vs 52000 cup). I hope he isn`t planning to load the 30-30 up to 308 pressure or velocities, the gun won`t matter.

Gun Digest, '03 edition, lists .270, .280, 30-06, 7x64 Brenneke, 30-30 as available chamberings for the NEF Handi-rifle. Oh, .308 Win. too...

I overloded a 45/70 handi firle until the brass flowed into the extractor.

I did an analysis of the rilfe's strength.

It is many times stronger than the brass.

quote:

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Originally posted by DigitalDan:
Gun Digest, '03 edition, lists .270, .280, 30-06, 7x64 Brenneke, 30-30 as available chamberings for the NEF Handi-rifle. Oh, .308 Win. too...

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Thanks DD.....I'd far rather buy one in .30-06 or .308 than try to hot load the 30-30 in the handi rifle because it's just plain safer to do it that way.....and if one wants to back it off a bit to what ever velocities you want.

Here's the real problem.....hot loaded .30-30s can easily some day get errantly channeled to someone with a model 94.....it's just not worth it.....
I won't own a 45 colt, a 45/70, etc that has a risk of finding overloaded ammo someday.....At one time I owned a pair of beautiful Colt SAA 5 1/2" revolvers and a .45 colt M-92.....It bothered me that I might misplace the loads for the M-92 with the colt revolvers that I sold all of them.....and yes I loaded ammo for the rifle with nickel plated brass and for the revolvers with the unplated brass.....

You just never know if the grandkids will someday inherit the guns and not know the difference!

Ok thanks thats what i thought he should do, But i dont know what he will do he never can decide. thanks a bunch

Vapodog,
I just got 3 guns in 45 Colt, and have standardized on 24 gr H110, 250 gr XTP.
It kicks like a mule in the Uberti Cattleman, and not enough kick [1536 fps] in the Win 94 with Limbsaver.

I am going to need a way to make wimpier and stronger ammo, and tell them appart.

Is there brass die to make green and red ammo?

quote:

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I am going to need a way to make wimpier and stronger ammo, and tell them appart.

Is there brass die to make green and red ammo?

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Clark, Maybe you could try useing different brands for different loads- Rem vs Win- or nickle vs brass cases.

The Handi rifles come in calibers that are much higher pressure rounds than the .30-30....270 win, 25-06 rem and .308 win, all well over 60,000psi SAAMI max average pressures. The .30-30 case will fail long before the handrifle frame will.

http://www.hr1871.com/firearms/index.php?cat=4&subcat=6

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

quote:

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Originally posted by Clark:
Vapodog,
I just got 3 guns in 45 Colt, and have standardized on 24 gr H110, 250 gr XTP.
It kicks like a mule in the Uberti Cattleman, and not enough kick [1536 fps] in the Win 94 with Limbsaver.

I am going to need a way to make wimpier and stronger ammo, and tell them appart.

Is there brass die to make green and red ammo?

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Nickel and unplated brass is what I suggest,,,,,but there's another idea.....trade the Uberti's for Vaqueros and your ready to load them all the same I think.

wait a minute

the handirifle comes in load of calibers
BUT NOT ALL HANDIRIFLES ARE SAFE FOR ALL ROUNDS

there is at least 3 different frames, as when you call in for the barrel exchange program they require you to give your serial number before they will even talk to you. and if your frame has the wrong SN, you won't get it.

the BARREL isn't the problem, and if he wants another barrel, go to http://www.hr1871.com and swap up

jeffe

I think they don't put rifle barrels on the shotguns and they don't put barrels on rifles made before they bought the name, 'H&R".

But if it says "Handi Rifle" they will sell a barrel, but only if you send the lower.

"Speer 12" 1994:
"Some bolt-action and single-shot rifles have been chambered for this cartridge. Reloaders can sue spritzer-type bullets in these rifles, but should keep the weight to 150 grains or less. Heavier spritzer bullets cannot be drive fast enough in the 30-30 to expand reliably. We are occasionally asked if the 30-30 can be loaded to higher velocities in a modern bolt action like the Remington model 788. The answer is NO! The 30-30 case is an old design with relatively thin walls. Attempting to load "hotter" would risk a dangerous case failure."

This gem of miss information from "Speer 12" about 30-30 cases makes me laugh.
I add it to the "Speer 12" bogus start velocities and capricious pressures with velocities listed in hierarchy.

Clark,
you can NOT get a 450 marlin on any action that is not the HR ULTRA.. there's several variants.. .call em and ask, as I tried!!

jeffe

If the gun will take the pressure, and if the brass won't, the next question to ask is whether the gun will take the escaping hot gases and shards of brass.

It is also well to consider how well your skin and eyes will tolerate brief high velocity jets of burning smokeless powder and shredded brass.

H. C.

Tell Dad forget the .30-30 the 2005 catalog shows it's chambered for the .500 S&W

quote:

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:

you can NOT get a 450 marlin on any action that is not the HR ULTRA...call em and ask

jeffe

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If there is anyone still at H&R who knows as much as me about the strength of the Handi Rilfe, I can't find any evidence of his existence.

I may be an ordinary engineer, but I have the advantage of some help in stress calcuations on my Handi Rilfe, a mech eng prof and my father, the gun designer.

And I have done enough calculations and validated them with enough testing to know that the limitations of the Handi Rifle are old load book tales.

Clark
Have a look.. i tried to get a 450 marlin for my 1998 vintage 223

http://www.hr1871.com/barrelAcc/index.htm

the "*" denotes you have to call


"
223S 223 Rem., 22" Stainless 109.00
243 *243 Win., 22" 82.00
343 *243 Win., 22" Bull 93.00
243S *243 Win., 22" Stainless 109.00
270 *270 Win., 22" 82.00
270S *270 Win., 22" Stainless 109.00
280 *280 Rem., 26" 100.00
306 *30/06 Sprg., 22" 82.00
306S *30/06 Sprg., 22" Stainless 109.00
308 *308 Win., 22" 82.00
707 *7mm-08 Rem., 22" Superlight 82.00
(Includes scope mount rail and offset hammer spur.)
SY5 243 Win., 20" 82.00
SY4 22 Hornet, 20"
82.00
SY3 223 Rem., 20" 82.00
(Includes adjustable open sights.)
SL5 243 Win., 20" 82.00
SL4 22 Hornet, 20" 82.00
SL3 223 Rem., 20" 82.00
(Includes scope mount rail and offset hammer spur.)
*For this barrel, please call Customer Service at (978) 630-8220 to see if it can be fitted to your receiver.
Click here for an order form"

The 308 is rimless you will have extractor work to do. One nice fix is to rechamber to 30/40. You get all the gun you will ever need.
Good luck1

Vapo et al, I'm not funtionally literate in regards Handi Rifles, was just noting in context of first post that cartridges with more oomph that the thutty-thutty were chambered in it. Apparently there is some expertise here however!

I agree that trying to pump up the 30-30 to higher levels of performance is a fools errand, especially when the platform is chambered in cartridges far beyond anything that may be achieved. I have been using data from Alliant for loads with RX15 and 150 gr spitzers, find that 2500 fps is achievable as their data suggests. It is also all or perhaps more than is required. IMO, the reason that many different cartridges survive is found in that they fulfill specific utility, the 30-30 being an especially good example. Proper bullets, adequate velocity, fairly short range coupled with light rifles makes for meat on the table. If you're in heavily timbered country you're covered. If headed to the prairie for a speed goat hunt, probably not.

I'd own a Handi Rifle if they chambered one in 30-30 with a 22-24" barrel, D&T'd/no sights, stainless synthetic. In fact I would sell a couple of other guns I wouldn't feel a need for. Until they make that "Swamp Monster" for me....

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Originally posted by DigitalDan:
I'd own a Handi Rifle if they chambered one in 30-30 with a 22-24" barrel, D&T'd/no sights, stainless synthetic. In fact I would sell a couple of other guns I wouldn't feel a need for. Until they make that "Swamp Monster" for me....

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Hey DD, They seem to get a bit closer each year.

I've got a 2003 Catalog beside me and it has a S&S 223Rem and a 243Win both 22". They offer a 22" Blue and Synthetic 30-30 with Iron Sights, but of course they come right off and you can fill the sight holes with the plugs in the scope mount holes.

I'll up your ante though, if they made an S&S in 308Win and 358Win, I know for sure I'd have one of each. Their B&S 30-06 sure keeps tempting me, but I've resisted so far.

Oh yes, they also make a Blue model with a Laminated stock. The stock is cut with a Monte Carlo cheek rest and it is available in about any caliber a man could want - except 35cal.