I bought a few hundred Hornady 240 hp/xtp's because all the shops around here are out of the xtp mags. I was planning to load these full power. From what I have read. Its not recommended to push the regular xtp's over 1400fps. I was going to stack these xtp's over a charge of 12 grs of unique. That should keep these below 1400. Here's my problem. The cannalure on the new bullits is way higher than on the xtp/mags. I seat the mags so the OAL is around 1.745. That puts me on the cannalure so I can get a good crimp. These new 240gr hp/xtps are seated around 1.710 oal to crimp on the cannalure. Thats much shorter than all my other reloads so I stopped at one rd. Pulled the bullit, and thought about loading up some 45 long colts with these.
Do any of you seat your 454's that deep? Should I just seat them out farther and crimp below the cannalure?
I never thought I would say this after my first trip to the range with this gun, but after the 7 years or so that I have had it. I actually like to shoot the loads that this gun is made to shoot. I will have a few hundred light loads now as it seems. They should work purdy good on squirrels....

quote:

Originally posted by da_sidewinder:
I bought a few hundred Hornady 240 hp/xtp's because all the shops around here are out of the xtp mags. I was planning to load these full power. From what I have read. Its not recommended to push the regular xtp's over 1400fps. I was going to stack these xtp's over a charge of 12 grs of unique. That should keep these below 1400. Here's my problem. The cannalure on the new bullits is way higher than on the xtp/mags. I seat the mags so the OAL is around 1.745. That puts me on the cannalure so I can get a good crimp. These new 240gr hp/xtps are seated around 1.710 oal to crimp on the cannalure. Thats much shorter than all my other reloads so I stopped at one rd.

Pray tell, why isn't it a good idea to push regular XTPs over 1,400 fps? Are you afraid it won't kill something? What I've heard, and I don't know if it's true, is that the lead part of the bullet can be blown out of the barrel leaving the jacket behind. I would do it though; actually have done it with a 460 S&W Magnum without a second thought and with no problem at all. Accuracy wise in my 460 S&W, my load with regular XTP bullets was one of the more accurate ones. I say, push them as fast as you want.

The COAL doesn't matter at all unless the cartridges are so long they won't fit in the cylinder (assuming you're shooting a revolver). What matters is how far the bullet is seated in the case; if seated deeper the effective case volume is decreased and pressures increase accordingly though if you're only talking a few thousandths of an inch it won't matter.

I would seat to the cannelure and crimp and not worry about the bullets going too fast.

the 1400fps is due to bullet failure concerns... that is, fragmenting on impact...

there is NO fear of blowing a jacket off ... that rumor only applies to tube cup.. hole in the bottom unbonded bullets .. hawk and barnes original, to name two of the same design ...

i've shot small game with .358 xtps loaded to right at 3000 fps... in a 358 winmag...

turns jackrabbits into red rain

Thats what I read too Grumulkin. The jacket might come off in the gun. The xtp/mags have shot really good in this gun. Any weight...but the 300gr is my hunting load. So far I have just kilt paper. So when I bought these regular hp/xtp's. I was just going to shoot paper with them. I'm sure I could come up with a cheaper bullit to shoot, but the acuracy is so good with these I have not experimented with other bullits. Just shot a 300gr SP factory load for when I'm on the beach in Alaska. Which is why I bought this gun in the first place.

Were talking about a conciderable distance here. 35 to .040. The cannelure is way higher on the bullit so if I want to crimp on the cannelure. I have to seat them way deeper. There is room in the case with the unique. I suppose I could seat them out and crimp below the cannelure??? Thats my other question. I would kind of like to keep somewere close to the oal of my other reloads, but with these hp/xtp's (not mag)..I would be way below the cannelure with my crimp.

Back to the velocity. I was shooting the xtp/mags because they were designed for the speeds these bigger handguns can produce. My loads are just a touch lighter than full power. I will use this gun in Texas on deer, and pigs comming up soon. From what I have read. The xtp/mags hold togather just fine. I have no experiance with large game and handguns though. I have shot quite a few ground squirrels, gophers, and pdogs with it. Its on the tailgate with all the rifles, and shoots good enough to hit the little buggers if I do my part. Jeffeosso. Thats a straight up answer. Blowing the jacket off with the regular xtp's if pushed over 1400 fps was my concern. Now if I can crimp with these below the cannelure. I will scrap using the unique, and use W296, H110, or lil gun and push these full power. All 3 of these powders work great, and I have some in stock. I have 500 win cases, and half are loaded. I'm on my 3rd reload on some of them. Looks like I will need to trim on some of them this next time around so I will trim them all to keep my crimps consistant. I have never had to trim pistol cases before.

I may get a S&W 500 next. It took a long time to get to actualy enjoy shooting the 454. I can see this becomming a bit of a fettish...

For crimping, you might consider a Lee Factory Crimp die. You can crimp bullets with that die even if there is no cannelure. In a revolver with that much recoil, you'll need a good crimp to keep the bullets from walking.

I used 158 gr. Hornady XTPs (the XTP Mags if I remember correctly) out of a 357 Herrett to take a Mountain Reedbuck, a Springbok and a Black Wildebeest and the bullets recovered from the Black Wildebeest showed the classic mushroom expansion and held together perfectly. I wouldn't hesitate to use either version of XTPs on deer.

I would recommend against using Lil' Gun. There was a discussion on another forum regarding this powder in which the head guy at Freedom Arms participated. He said the flame temperature of Lil' Gun is so high that the forcing cone can be toasted in a few hundred rounds.