Winchester and Remington apparently have all but gone out of the brass business, and will manufacture no brass for reloaders for the next 3 years..

My sources who are in the loop, tell me the reason being they make more money through the sale of loaded ammo..I think the "3 year business" is a just a farce to keep old customers on hold, but in truth they are out of the brass making biz...Be that as it may, I will never buy a damn thing from Win or Rem again..I feel like its a betrayal to all of us.

It looks more and more that we will have to get back to forming our own instead of being able to buy. I built a 257Rob and was lucky enough to find some used brass. When I contacted Rem and Win a few months ago to inquire when they would be running Rob brass again I was told by both "Not this year".
Looks like an opportunity for someone like Starline to step up.

If only Lapua would start making belted mag cases . . .

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My sources who are in the loop, tell me the reason being they make more money through the sale of loaded ammo.

So, someone is running a business and can make more money selling a product as a complete package, not as parts and you expect them to sell the parts for your convenience?

When the current "buy ammo" boom cools off, they will almost certainly start selling brass again, until then, I don't blame them for making hay while the sun shines.

Yep, they are in business to make money and if they didn't, we wouldn't have anything. The ammo and component hoarding are all contributing to this artificial demand we are seeing over the past 3 years. We will see in 2016 whether it will get better, or worse.

Maybe that is why the new Remington 300 blackout ammo i just bought was loaded with Barnes brass, sure could use some 375 Winchester brass.

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Yep, they are in business to make money

How dare they. My question is looking at the younger generation and watching how much factory ammo they run through at the range is reloading going to pass with us old farts?

Who you callin' an old fart? OK, maybe me.


Plenty of guys I know are passing it along to their kids. One guy has pre-assigned jobs for each of his boys. The reward? more range time.

I think loading will endure, if only for those who seek the less common loads.

We'll just have to see where the market and politics takes us.....

One man's 'hoarding' is another man's 'stocking up'. Depends upon whose ox is being gored.....

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Who you callin' an old fart? OK, maybe me.

Only one I'm putting in that bucket is myself. Everyone else will have to make their own determination where they belong.

I wish my kids were interested. Maybe the grandkids.

You know hoarding when you see it; buying (and having the money to do so), several lifetimes' supply of primers and powder is hoarding by any definition. I have an acquaintance who is doing just that. It is the guys who can't afford it and those who are reasonable about it who are being gored. Not a good thing for the sport.. I just tell them that I can't wait for their estate sale. And the real problem will be when the demand falls off; which it will ultimately do; what will the makers do then?

Worse are the "Preppers"; they hoard ammo just for trading purposes and have no intention of shooting any of it. I know one of them and she has 100 bricks of 22 ammo and no rifle (I pointed out her flaw there). She said it will be used for trading. I told her that I didn't need to hoard anything; I would just take hers since she had no means to defend it. She just looked at me with a blank stare.

You aint seen nothing yet

If a Democrat hits the Whitehouse next trip I predict a panic buy of epic proportion

In a sense, I agree with Gato.

But, I think these companies are shooting themselves in the foot by picking and choosing which side of the shooting community they are supporting.

It is not my business or your business to determine how much or how little of a product(s) anyone purchases. That is how a free market system works. If you prefer a planned economy, move to North Korea.

The ammunition companies have pretty much always hated reloaders. And, bullet casters.

They tend to believe those two intertwined groups are "cheating" them out of ammunition sales.

I just moved to using RWS, NORMA, and Starline for my needs. They are happy to cultivate the reloader market.

The same with firearms sales lately. It pleases me to spend the off season contemplating what sort of 98 or OM 70 I will base a custom on the next year; as opposed to shopping
for anything from any factory. DR's excepted...

It's a reason I love gun shows and 80% lowers so much.

Rich

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I just moved to using RWS, NORMA, and Starline for my needs. They are happy to cultivate the reloader market.

The same with firearms sales lately. It pleases me to spend the off season contemplating what sort of 98 or OM 70 I will base a custom on the next year; as opposed to shopping
for anything from any factory. DR's excepted...

+1

Exactly the same reason I decided to go custom build on my 6.5mm SAUM. No offense to anyone but some of the new factory rifles look like shit, and I'm referring in particular to the Browning X Bolt which has one of the worse looking stocks, the Ruger American and the Browning White Gold which is so bright and shiny you'd spook game 10 miles away.

As for ammo, well Remington SAUM cases are non existent down here in New Zealand, plenty of Norma SAUM brass available and I've never used Remington or Winchester projectiles.

Another big reason for nonavailability of ammo and components is the multitude of new whizzbang cartridges that don't do anything that isn't already being done very well.

The manufacturers have to make shorter runs of each cartridge and older, low volume cartridges get put on the back burner, such as 257 Roberts, 218 Bee, 32 Win Special, etc.

cycles of "non-supply" are very hard on a market. Once a customer goes away for any reason, they are very hard to "start" back up. The world is full of short term thinking though so no surprise here. I am sure we can pay off that 18 Trillion dollars too with about 20% of the population actually working and producing wealth.

Don't tell me that this is the same reason why you could not get any Hornady Interbonds or Nosler Accubonds in most parts of the world!

Wasn't it Hornady that discontinued several bullets a couple years ago because they couldn't keep up with demand?

I guess they should be put on that list, too!

In the end,we each make our own list...

And then go shoot our bows more.

I wish I was in charge of the whole world's manufacturing base; I would only allocate items to those that don't piss me off. And production of all short magnums would cease immediately.

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Originally posted by Saeed:
In a sense, I agree with Gato.

But, I think these companies are shooting themselves in the foot by picking and choosing which side of the shooting community they are supporting.

I would like to agree with you but can not. There are far more hunters that use factory ammo than there are reloaders. At the range it is obvious. There are four assault rifles to every bolt action and those guys are using mil. surplus and store bought ammo. Fortunes of war I guess. roger

Dont worry, brass will pop up!
A lot of bullet manufactors will be poor if there is no brass to reload so they will make it happen.
And the powder guys will want your buisness also.

Then again Starline and others will grab the market if it is up for grabs.

If the demand is there it will open the door for other companies to get in the game. Nosler brass is good and available. Pricier, but maybe an open market will allow them to come down, and offer more choices.

I agree with a lot of the above. If Remington and Winchester want to act like they're the only game in town, they will soon find out that they are NOT the only game in town. The US automobile industry had to find this out. Maybe the US ammunition industry has the same lesson in store, at least as far as the "big three" are concerned. Xin Loi.

We used to get all our brass to reload from factory rounds. As long as you can buy ammo that fits your chamber, I see no problem.

Barry, with all due respect, would you pay $175 or so for 20 rounds of 458 Lott just so you have the brass?

And when/where did you last see a box of 400 H&H? It has to be bought from the parent company... I don't think so!

Hummm? Since the first of the year I have seen more Win in calibers then last year. I can't say about Rem.

The "shortages" have become an industry management now days. Whether that is cars, or ammo, or electric power, or shoes, or vitamins, medicines, and vaccinations, it apparently is here to stay across the board.

Like many of us I mostly use Winchester. I have had a sneaking idea for quite some time that this was going to be true. Whether that came about as a loaded ammo vs components or other corporate decision process you could almost feel it coming especially in Winchester reloading components.

We used to go to the store or online and obtain most Winchester components. Now some of those have been out of stock for years. So while there is hoarding, there is also just no real apparent attempt to catch up on the component side of the business.

I looked at Winchester brass for 45 ACP versus the Winchester loaded rounds. The loaded rounds were only a couple of cents more than the components cost. No brainer to get the loaded 230s and just snag the brass. Besides that Win 45 brass hasn't been in stock in at least 2 or 3 years anyway.

In rifles it is a different story cost wise.

But in powders too Winchester seems to be following the same path. I have seen a little 748 lately but 231 has been gone and remains gone.

In this time I have slid across to Hornady for most of the blasting rounds. And AA powders I am liking a lot better too.

But I still prefer Winchester for the hunting calibers.

One thing that might work in our favor is that many commodities are down, so depending on how these companies stand on contracts and hedges, if they can take material cheap dn roll it out at the same prices, then it may indeed catch up some. If they have the idea that there is gong to be $5 a box 9mm and $12 a box 45-70 again then I suspect the shortages will continue.

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Originally posted by Doubless:
Barry, with all due respect, would you pay $175 or so for 20 rounds of 458 Lott just so you have the brass?

And when/where did you last see a box of 400 H&H? It has to be bought from the parent company... I don't think so!

I understand, there are exclusive needs. Just not ready to "abandon all hope" so to speak, just because we can't have everything, all the time. (Also, I don't really need anything right now and don't feel vulnerable.)

It will change -- probably get better, even. Found my first .416 Rigby brass on sale at 80 bucks a box of 20 African loads way back when. Glad Hornady has empties for 40 bucks a box now. Eventually i'll need 'em for cast loads. No, I wouldn't spring for 240 bucks a box of TBBC or Barnes loaded .416 Rigby for the brass. Double rifle shooters pay that kind of money routinely unless they hand load. Cheers!

sigh...
facts needed, not restated rumors

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Originally posted by dpcd:
I wish I was in charge of the whole world's manufacturing base... production of all short magnums would cease immediately.

Now show us on the doll where the short magnums touched you...

I'm old, crochety and absolutely abhor variety too! We should all just shoot 30-06 and .375 H&H; everything else is superfluous! Ban all cartridges with 404 Jeffry parent case! Boo! Hiss!

Maybe Obamacare can fix your atomic wedgie.

Now I know why I have boxes and boxes of brass laying around some for riles I don't even own

Hmmm .... just received an email stating Winchester 30-06, 270 Win, 7.62 Nato and 45-70 brass were now in stock. Seems they are still offering and making brass.

Got the same email, amusing that it was referred to as "hard to find brass". But then again, I've always planned ahead in regards to brass.

Damn a company for making a buck. There is enough good brass out there. Other components, too.

I've maintained the position that you should buy enough components to wear out a barrel when you buy the barrel. It's proper planning.