I am new to this and bought a Millenium CED chronograph. Working up to maximum load, I am not even registering the minimum load FPS.

Tried 9mm and 357mag. Same for both, speeds less than the printouts say I should get.

Is this a concern?

quote:

Is this a concern?

I'd say it more often the norm than the exception!

I agree with Vapodog. I have never hit the stated velocity for a load. Always 50-100fps under.

Mike

I was a bit more than 50-100 below. Maybe a few hundred, or 10-20% low.

Dywolf, if loads chronographed where we expected the to we wouldn't NEED a chronograph.

In some instances, I've seen rifle loads over 300 FPS different then expected. That's why they are called the de-liar.

FWIW....I've yet to see a chronoigraph that was being used properly lie to me. It may have not functioned but never lied!

it might be the chronograph. I've tryed using it with and without the shades on sunny and cloudy days. Mine is sparatic and will give me really low velocities about half the time. other times it will be right on. I've learned not to trust my chrono unless it's giving somewhat accurate readings that day.
I would take it out another day in different sky conditions and see if it still reads really low.

I have an older model CED, and I love it.

But one day, it registered velocities that were ~200 fps lower than it should have for a load I'd measured before.

Turns out I hadn't gotten one of the sensors pushed completely onto the support rail . . . so the distance between the two sensors was a couple of inches greater than it should have been.

Once corrected, life was good again.

But I, too, never have gotten velocities that are equal to published velocities.

You can try a different screen. Or an infra red screen.

I have always got good readings from my Chrony in all cartridges. The best calibration for a chronograph in the field is the 22 RF, try high velocity and subsonics. The 22 RF shoots very close to factory advertised specs and is at full velocity in a 16" barrel so is always a good calibration check on the day (the extra length of barrel after 16" on a 22 RF has been shown not to slow the bullet down to any real measurable extent so barrel length influence is not an issue).

The ultra high velocity 22 RFs (Stingers, etc) are usually under advertised MV so don't use them for checking your chronograph.

I use 22rf match out of a pistol to check mine 918fps +or- a few fps.

P dog shooter is right on. Use some match 22 ammo to proof your chrony. Usually the velocity printed on the box is pretty close.

I'm kinda like pdogshooter too:

But. I use my 22LR with rifle match ammo at 1,080 and a 270 reload at 2925 for calibration at 2 points.

Also, even though I reload for most all my rifles, I will buy a box of factory ammo that has the bullet I want to reload with each new rifle - Shoot/chrony 10 and keep the other 10 as a standard for the life of the rifle. These rounds can come in real handy if you have to trouble-shoot a problem later on with that rifle or the reload for it.

There's a wealth of information on what can adversely affect the CED's readings here , and how you can run some tests to determine whether or not the unit is functioning properly. I found this paragraph most illuminating:

"6. Spacing. Make sure that your sensors are properly positioned and tightened. If they are off by even 1/16" it will cause incorrect readings. Each sensor has an internal pressure plate. Slide the sensor completely on the mounting bracket until it fits snugly and then tighten the custom pressure plate from the bottom of each sensor until it stays firmly in place. DO NOT over-tighten as it may become difficult to remove later."

With some guns I am above posted speeds, but with most I am below. Sometimes at posted speeds. Every gun is different!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's why people buy Oehlers

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
That's why people buy Oehlers

Heh. That gets my vote for comeback of the year. And I mean that sincerely.

The page I referred to above discusses principles of chronograph operation which apply to ALL chronographs, but I should have been more explicit.

That doesn't diminish my appreciation for your post, which is both quirky and funny (I laughed out loud when I read it — honestly).

Good hunting!

change the battery

quote:

Originally posted by B. L. O'Connor:

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
That's why people buy Oehlers

Heh. That gets my vote for comeback of the year. And I mean that sincerely.

The page I referred to above discusses principles of chronograph operation which apply to ALL chronographs, but I should have been more explicit.

That doesn't diminish my appreciation for your post, which is both quirky and funny (I laughed out loud when I read it — honestly).

Good hunting!

Agreed. With all of the "My chrono is better than your chrono" banter here it is scary even offering an opinion but the fact that spacing affects accuracy and the Oehler sensors are spaced 10ft apart makes spacing errors much less significant.

I'm willing to bet that not 1 in 10 nonprofessional chronograph users clean the sensors of their machines before use.............not 1 in 100 has any type of blast or flash screen......or has any idea that they should be used, especially when shooting handguns and/or moose howitzers across a chrony or alternately what distance the machine needs to be from the muzzle to prevent inaccurate readings with the common run of chronographs.........

My Shooting Chrony records MVs for the 22 LR exactly like the factory claims they should be.

amamnn has it right. Be sure you have the chrony at the proper distance from the muzzle. A friend set up my chrony and his 357 was registering 300 to 400 fps. I moved it farther away from the gun and the speeds suddenly changed to 980 to 1050 fps.

The powder and gasses coming from the barrel can mess with the chrony's readings.

Cold weather has an impact on some batteries and this can sometimes lead to crazy results from a chronograph.

If something doesn't make sense I like to try to check it too.

I agree with the suggestion of 22LR with ammo you've tested before, or a good air rifle. Once you know what those "should" be doing you always have a base to work from.

I've put chronographs back to back and swapped them around and they can differ quite markedly from each other. on rifle velocities 2600-2800 fps I've seen them regularly 70-100fps difference.

I've often wondered where and how you get them calibrated.

all "name brand" commonly available crhonies are 1/2 of 1% stated in specs .. oehler-CED, including prochrony, RSI, and shooting chrony ..

like most things, guys that paid the post ALWAYS claim something is "better" ... which is sometimes true .. but in this case, it doesn' matter to 99.9 percent of people

change the battery, set at 10-12 feet from the muzzle and try again

i think only those claiming th distinction of "handloader" over being merely a "reloader" really care about 5 fps, so keep up the good work ..

oh, and if something like this happens again.. fire a couple factory rounds over it .. if they also read low, you need to trouble shoot the chrony...

if they dont, its time to check your powder, primers, and reloading methods

quote:

Originally posted by dyrwolf:
... Working up to maximum load, I am not even registering the minimum load FPS. ...

Nothing like a Chronograph for creating confusion!

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
That's why people buy Oehlers

+1000

After my M33 died of old age, I bought a CED M2. I'm sorry Drywolf but I have nothing positive to say about the M2. Ok, fine, they are nice and compact and easy to set up. That's it.

Bought my new Oehler 35P and am, again, in the land of Nirvana.

Alan

quote:

Originally posted by dyrwolf:
I was a bit more than 50-100 below. Maybe a few hundred, or 10-20% low.

What barrel length was the load data developed with (usually can be found in your load manual), and what barrel length are your guns?

Keep in mind, handgun book loads developed in a 6" barrel but fired in a 3" or 4" will be noticeably slower than book velocity... and no, you should not compensate by increasing the charge beyond the safe maximum for your guns.

quote:

That's why people buy Oehlers

I was part owner of an Oehler system. I was happy with it. When my partner died his wife sold it. My fault we only had a handshake deal.

I replaced it with a Chrony Beta. Results were the same and I've never had an issue with it. I ALWAYS use the screens

If you are unhappy with your readings and want them higher just make the distance between screens shorter.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I use 22rf match out of a pistol to check mine 918fps +or- a few fps.

For nearly 30 years this has been my method to check the accuracy of my various Oehler units...

It's good advice!

quote:

Originally posted by feets:
amamnn has it right. Be sure you have the chrony at the proper distance from the muzzle. A friend set up my chrony and his 357 was registering 300 to 400 fps. I moved it farther away from the gun and the speeds suddenly changed to 980 to 1050 fps.

The powder and gasses coming from the barrel can mess with the chrony's readings.

Yeah, too close to the muzzle and you're reading the powder in the muzzle blast.

I always open my Chronograph session with 5-10 rounds through the Buckmark.

My pact ! has always been right there.

That said I once read that one of the main reasons velocities have dropped i the loading manuals is because everyone has a chronograph to confirm the numbers and they are always lower.

The ONLY powder I have ever seen equal or exceed book numbers is Blue Dot!

In one case ,380 Aoto 900 fps loads per my manual actually only gave less than 500 fps and would not operate the action. Also, a full load in my 7MM STW per magazine data would have execeeded max velocity by 200 fps. A chronograph is a reloaders best friend.

quote:

Originally posted by dyrwolf:
I was a bit more than 50-100 below. Maybe a few hundred, or 10-20% low.

What bbl length are you shooting? Common mistake of first time chrono users, you can't get book vel w/ shorter bbls. Most data is done w/ 4-5" bbls, sometimes 6", you can expect as much as 50fps loss per nch of bbl in high pressure rounds, especially in rev.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
That's why people buy Oehlers

I wanted to buy an Oehler but they wanted to charge me $700.00 for it because I was not in the USA, plus they wanted to ship it to Canada via UPS, which is very expensive.
Might have to look into a CED? FS

I have seen Winchester Ball powders showing 200 to 300 fps less on a cold day! This really foxed my friend who is a very experienced hunter & rifleman. His 7mm WSM was clocking 2700 with 160 gr Accubonds but my rifles with VV N160 was showing normal velocities. After more than 30 years of being an avid fan of Winchester powders, he has now seen the light and moved to more modern powders like Re19 & VV N560.

A friend had the same problem last weekend.

He has a Chrony model. The front sensor was loose and out of position just a touch. He fixed it.

The distance between the two sensors is vital. I have my chrony with a deal on the bottom of it so it will fit on the tripod. That "dealy" sometimes inhibits the full opening up of the unit effectively shortening the distance between the 2 sensors

When that happens I see velocities 100 or more fps faster than when I make sure it is fully open and extended

Another "Handloader's Best Friend" is another loading book!

Typos are not unknown so it is good practice to always compare loads from 2 different books.

quote:

Originally posted by midminnesota:
With some guns I am above posted speeds, but with most I am below. Sometimes at posted speeds. Every gun is different!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I second that viewpoint. Chronys thesedays tend to be pretty accurate. Ive seen a lot of variation in different guns. Older barrels sometimes produce considerably slower velocities.

Hey dyrwolf, If you really want higher Velocities, just add 150-200fps to whatever the chronograph tells you. That way you will be happy and it won't make a hill of Beans in the final Trajectory/Retained Energy/Time of Flight.
-----

All Chronograph Manufactures should include "Add 150fps to the Velocities shown on the Chronograph - for Happy results." inside the Owners Manual.

Or, have the Software automatically add the Velocity with the throw of a switch. It could be labeled - Velocity and Bragging Velocity.