Since becoming an AR forum junky in October 2005, I have noticed peoples preferences and dislikes for certain bullets. I hate to muck of the forum too much, but I can help myself.

What is the bullet that you absolute will NOT use? Please include your reasons (bullet performance, construction, cost, etc)

I use "junk" for load developement in new rifles to see how it compares to load data. I use them for vermin and target shooting if they are accurate enough.

Most of what I hear people call junk isn't really backed up by my experiences with them. For instance the Sierra Gamekings have a place, but others refer to them as junk. I don't use many Nosler BT's, but do see a place for them as well.

Bulk bullets are great for plinking. Plinking is great practice. Practice is a great confidence builder!

I have not purchased one box of Speer bullets for use on big game since 1985, and not because I laid up a huge supply of them. I was utterly disappointed in how they (150gr) worked out of my '06. Standard Hornady Interlock's or Sierra HPBT Gamekings worked better. They may be better now but I've not had an excuse to try them. That was my experience with them and the reason I quit them.

I've gotten an earfull from people bad-mouthing the Sierra's but I have not seen what they claim is total failure. It may have more to do with how I load them and shot placement. But, this is what you asked, I answered, and others will disagree with much enthusiasm. Nate

i don't use BTs... too frangable.

jeffe

bullets I will not buy again
1. Speer's Grand Slam.....not accurate for me
2. Nosler's Ballistic tips (except varmint) too fragile
3 Hornady's SST.....too fragile
4. Sierra anything.....just orneryness.
5. Swift's scirocco...not accurate.

I use Sierra exclusively. If they don't have a bullet for my application(ain't found one yet)then I'll shop around! Jim

Generally (and generalities are somewhat meaningless) I have had less luck over 40 years in getting good accuracy from standard Hornady bullets than any other brand (save the infamously ill-fated Barnes X). That said, a bulk batch of 52 grain Hornady HP's does well in any gun I try them in (while I can't get their 55 grain SP to group in anything).

Insofar as terminal performance on game, you'd be surprised how little difference in "dead" you'll find between the cheapest and the most expensive.

Sierra boat tail
Sierra flat base
Sierra _________(you fill in the blank!)

Have never much cared for the Speer bullets. Shoot Sierras almost exclusively in competitions.

quote:

What is the bullet that you absolute will NOT use? Please include your reasons (bullet performance, construction, cost, etc)

You didn't specify rifle or handgun, so my experience with Star bullets in a 40S&W made sure I'll never buy them again. 165's keyhole 2 of 5 at 10 yards from the same pistol that shoots 155-200 anything else just fine.

That Sierra GK in .308/165 works great on deer, black bear, about any eastern game I can think of for a lot of folks. As for match/competition bullets, if the bullet brand you are using doesn't start with an S, (as in Sierra) you are severely hampered! Several years ago ended up with some of the, at that time, new Hornady plastic tip match bullets in 308/168 weight. Would not group for crap in a rifle that was superbly accurate and gave Hornady a call and the guy I ended up talking with asked me how long that red plastic tip was on the bullets I had???? I got one and measured it and he started laughing and chuckling and said, "Oh, you have the old bullets and they aren't very good..." Told him I had just bought them some week or so ago and inquired about a swap out. Well, bottom line, I am out some 60.00 odd bucks and did use them up for load work, but you can bet that no more Hornady bullets for me or for that matter several of the guys I shot with at the time. I see several folks using them, but no where close to the numbers using Sierra MK's. Hunting bullets, may well be very good indeed, but have no reason to switch.

I guess I'm a born cantrarian but frankly I haven't found any really bad bullets. If a major puts out a truly bad bullet the market will weed it out pronto. I do tend to use heavy for calibre bullets but I have never had a bullet failure. I have had some failures that were contributable to my poor shooting. If you don't put the bullet where it is supposed to go nothing works.
Just off the top of my head bullets I've used
for hunting
Hornady
Sierra BT/FLAT BASE/H.P.
Speer
Remington corelock
Nosler P
Nosler B.T.
nosler Solid base
Hawk
Woodlieghes Soft and Solids
Wichester Fail safes
Flat nosed hard cast solids
They have all shot better than I can hold from field positions and have all killed very well. In fact if the game weights less that 300 lbs I really question the need for any kind of super bullets.
es

That is indeed an interesting question.

Only two types I can think of:
1. Any Steel jacket bullet. I know they are softer than the barrel, but my sub-conscious won't let me shoot them.
2. Any Lapping Bullet made. Just don't need(or desire) to run "grit" through my barrels on purpose.

Otherwise, I'm not a Bullet Racist, I like `em all for their intended purpose. (Same for ladies!)

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek
(save the infamously ill-fated Barnes X)

Yikes! Why didn't somebody tell me?
I guess those animals have all died by accident!


There will NEVER be another Nosler Partition bullet shot from one of my rifles. [well maybe for fire forming or plinking - but not hunting!]

Les

Any bullet with a polymer tip (except for varminting) and any moly-coated bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
There will NEVER be another Nosler Partition bullet shot from one of my rifles. [well maybe for fire forming or plinking - but not hunting!]

Les

Interesting comment as I have been critical of that bullet for it's shedding the front core routinely upon impact. It's one reason I much prefer the Swift A-Frame even at the higher price.

That said the number of supporters (fans) of that bullet is extremely high.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
...That said, a bulk batch of 52 grain Hornady HP's does well in any gun I try them in (while I can't get their 55 grain SP to group in anything).

Stonecreek, this is interesting. I had high hopes to be able to use the Hornady 55 grs SP with a cannelure (let's call them SPCL) as practice bullets, because they can be had at very reasonable prices ($.05-.06 per bullet if bought in quantities of 6000). So I got myself 500 to try them out.

Reloading the 55 grs SPCL looked really promising. They seem to have a comparatively blunt ogive, so seated nice and deep in the cases when close to the lands. This is primarily of importance to me in long throated factory chambers. The deeper the bullets seat, the better I'll be able to chase lands when they recede.

Furthermore, the Hornadys looked like they had very consistent "points" (or meplats - if you like?), unlike other bulk bullets such as Remingtons 55 grs PSPCL.

So I loaded up the Hornadys in 2 reasonably accurate .223 rifles - one with a custom, and one with a factory barrel - and procceded to the range, high hopes and everything.

Boy, what a disappointment. The Hornady 55grs SPCLs were all over the place. They even shot worse than the Remington PSPCLs - which are not exactly the most consistent bullets around.

I have a feeling the remainder of the Hornadys must be relegated to off-hand or running boar practice...

So, if the Hornady 55grs SPCL is out of the question, what other bulk packed bullet might be used as a replacement??

- mike

quote:

what other bulk packed bullet might be used as a replacement??

I've had excellent results with the Speer 50 grain TNT in the 1,000 pack.

I second that, 50gr TNT worked quite well for me.

But I really like the Nosler 55gr Ballistic Tips just as well.

Les

My overall favorites are Bergers.

I will not shoot round or flat nose bullets of any kind for reasons of performance. I even shoot my 30-30 single shot with spire points.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
I've had excellent results with the Speer 50 grain TNT in the 1,000 pack.

The 50 grs TNT very often shows up on the radar when people speak of accurate bulk packed bullets. I'm intending to try this bullet out on a new .222 Rem which will (hopefully) be coming in soon.

I do see one problem with these bullets, though (I hasten to add, I have yet to try them out): the bearing surface of the bullet is extremely short, and the ogive very long. If you believe in being close to the lands, these bullets would have a natural drawback for long throated chambers. In fact, I can't see how you could sensibly seat these bullets close to the lands in anything but a zero freebore chamber (or close).

But, TNTs are definitely an option and will be duely tested. Thanks for bringing up this option.

- mike

I don't consider many bullets junk. Most refer to bullets as junk just because they are not accurate, but they may be tack drivers out of a different rifle. Alot of people that say a certain bullet is too fragile, have never shot them to see for themselves or have only seen one example and based all opinions on that one.

Reloader

I neglected to put in my two cents on the subject. I, too, am not a bullet racists. There is a function for just about every bullet that I use.

I am not real keen on using non-bonded Ballistic Tip style bullets on big game, but this year I did take a nice muley with a Hornady SST and it performed well, but the bullet hit the shoulder and never exited. So I actually contradicted myself there, but I perfer a clean pass through with little meat/hide damage.

If its cheap bulk ammo, as long as it hits what I am aiming at then I am happy.

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

The 50 grs TNT very often shows up on the radar when people speak of accurate bulk packed bullets.

But, TNTs are definitely an option and will be duely tested. Thanks for bringing up this option.

- mike

Mike
PM me your address and I'll send you some in a few weeks when I get back to my loading bench in Nebraska.

I'm away from it now and will be for a bit longer now.

The Winchester 150 gr. power point bullets in 7MM are total crap. I've tried them in three 7x57 Mausers and in a .280 Remington and all I've gotten are erratic shotgun patterns. I took the trouble to weigh about 50 of them and there was a 2 to three grain variation from bullet to bullet. Total garbage.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
So, if the Hornady 55grs SPCL is out of the question, what other bulk packed bullet might be used as a replacement??- mike

A number of us are having great luck with the Varmint Nightmare bullet from Mid South. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
The Winchester 150 gr. power point bullets in 7MM are total crap. I've tried them in three 7x57 Mausers and in a .280 Remington and all I've gotten are erratic shotgun patterns. I took the trouble to weigh about 50 of them and there was a 2 to three grain variation from bullet to bullet. Total garbage.
Paul B.

I tried a box of 150gr PP factory ammo in 7mm RM
and they shot quite well in my rifle. May be a different bullet? One of those things I guess. Nate

I've had nothing but crap results from anything that SPEER makes so I only use them to fireform with. I shoot Hornady,nosler,Beartooth and Cast Performance in all my guns.

Hoeram

In short, I will never shoot another Nosler Ballistic Tip. Their performance is spotty at best. I once shot a feral pig of about 50# with a ballistic tip, at a distance of roughly 40 yards. The bullet went straight through the head and never opened up. The pig stumbled but kept running.... The 150-grain Hornady opened him up like a soup can, and he tumbled at the shot...

And never another Sierra Pro Hunter. Twice in two years, they failed my father when shot out of an 1891 Argentine Mauser. They puked the cores and resulted in a lost buck as well as finding the jacket material in the entrance shoulder of a TX hill country whitetail doe. Roughly 90-100# live weight, and the bullet came apart.

Nope, neither of these two!

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Mike
PM me your address and I'll send you some in a few weeks when I get back to my loading bench in Nebraska.

I'm away from it now and will be for a bit longer now.

Thanks a ton for the offer Vapo, just goes to show how helpful AR members are! I have some TNTs sitting in my loading room, I'm just waiting for the right chamber to try them out...

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
A number of us are having great luck with the Varmint Nightmare bullet from Mid South. roger

Thanks for the tip, Roger. I may give these a try.
- mike

Junk bullets=Sierra big game bullets

I shoot what ever shoots the best in my rifle. I usually keep several brands of hand. This is my list.
1.Hornady 52gr match (.223)
2.Sierra 52 gr match (.223)
3.Speer 50gr tnt (.223)
4.Hornady 55gr spire point (.223)
5.Speer 52gr Hp (.223)
6.Winchester 55gr sp (.223) bulk
7.Nosler 95gr BT (.243)
This is just a few of what is in my inventory.
But If I need to try something else I keep an open mind.

Larry

I've never had a problem with any of the bigger names. Speer grand slams are a premium price for a nonpremium bullet.

I've had great luck with remington bullets,but the majority are nothing but hornady made.

The TNT's have been hit or miss for me. I can't get them to stay in one piece through a 1-9 twist .223. They fragment so bad,that they often won't make it to the the paper at 100 yards.

I do believe that the manufactures have done an excellant job of marketing. You have alot of people buying into the garbage that you need a premium bullet to kill anything.

Sledder,
If you are using the 50gr TNT I think that the fastest twist that you can use is 1-14. You will probably have to go to a heavier bullet. I don't know if speer makes the tnt in anything but 50gr. You might also try backing off of your load some. I think that the max. vel on the tnt 50 is around 3400.
Larry

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Burchfield:
Sledder,
If you are using the 50gr TNT I think that the fastest twist that you can use is 1-14. You will probably have to go to a heavier bullet. I don't know if speer makes the tnt in anything but 50gr. You might also try backing off of your load some. I think that the max. vel on the tnt 50 is around 3400.
Larry

Actually I've used the 50 grain TNT in both the 22-250 and the 220 swift and a full throttle speeds.

It seems to stand up better than other varmint bullets such as Sierra's blitz and Hornady's SX.

I've even used it in Savage rifles with fast twists and no problems.

I just checked their website and there is also the 55 grain TNT as well. I have no experience with this bullet. Only the 50 grain.

The only US-made bullets I've ever had any real problems with were Hornadys. I was developing a load for a friend's .30/.338 Springfield, and e could not get it to shoot two Hornady bullets anywhere near the same place on the target. Sierras and Nosler partitions worked quite acceptably, but not the Hornadys. This was eons ago, and I've bought few Hornady bullets since. But the ones I have used, 200-grain .358's, 270-grain .375's, 170-grain .307" .30/30 bullets, and 160-grain .268"'s, have all been good.

Other bullets, including Rem. Corelokts and Norma, Nosler, Sierra, and Speers have all been acceptable.

I won't use BT's for hunting. But they work great for developing loads. I shoot BT's all year then hunt with Accubonds.

i believe that every bullet made was designed for a purpose, what they do is often different from what the user wants or expects them to do.
eg: sierra........ desinged to expand rapidly for destruction iv found they seperate from there jacket too quick for what i want to use them for. here is what iv tryed and why i dont or do use them.
.222 rem
nosler bt- yeah liked them but found v-max's better.
v-max- currently use these excellent on the 'dead right there' factor on small game.
hornady sp- expanded nicely but didnt always kill on the spot.
sierra bthp match- not really a hunting bullet but tried them anyway, good when they hit bone.
win psp (factory) didnt like them similar to hornady sp.
Rem psp(factory) good expansion, hold together, excellent smack down.
all bullets are 50gr(except 52gr sierra) and will all shoot under 1" at 100m.
7mm rem mag
sierra sp 140- didnt shoot well out of my rifle excelent expansion but jacket seperation occured too quick for my likeing.
rem core-lock(factory)-good expansion hold together well enough i like these but cant get at the right price locally.
hornady 154interlocks- quick expansion and hold together and shoot accurately also have same POI as woodliegh i currently use this on smaller game.
Woodleigh pp160gr- i use this for bigger game it expands to almost 3 times its diameter but still penetrates well and holds together well.

quote:

believe that every bullet made was designed for a purpose, what they do is often different from what the user wants or expects them to do.

That is true

Most bullets are designed to work within a certain velocity range and if used outside that range there is a good chance that the bullet will fail in some way.

I particularly like nosler balistic tips and hornady SST's and find they perform flawlessly at 7mm-08 velocities out to 350 yards which is as far as i've used them.

Thes same bullets when launched from my 7mm rem mag do give me problems on close range shots on occasions but again work flawlessly at longer rangers where velocity has dropped off a bit.

Bullets are the most important part of the process yet most shooters give little thought or do little research on what the bullet was designed to do and therefore use the wrong bullet for the job at timess and bitch when the result isn't satisfactory.

Probably a little more thought into what bullet to use for what job would stop alot of these failures in the first place.

Sure If a bullet doesn't shoot well in your rifle then sometimes there isn't much to do about that but try something else.

i don''t think there are junk bullets,we are lucky too have so manny choices,we all can make wrong choices about any thing, shooting and reloading have so manny variables its unreal, but it comes down to what works for you in your weapon. great info here as always. jjmp