I am thinking of starting around 19gr, and working up .. I want a 240gr XPS load at 900, but 1000 would be "okay" ..

this gun WILL get shot, just not as much as my 22, though

Jeffe,

From experience with the 41 Rem Mag, the 44 Rem Mag, and the 44 Auto Mag ... I suspect that WW296 is good for max loads. If you want 900 to 1000 fps I'd look at loads with Unique or AA #5 rather than 296.

WW296 doesn't like to run well in light charges! Almost all reloading manuals caution against it.

According to an old Hogdon's manual 10.5 gr of Unique will put you in about your range.

The AA 3.22 guide shows 9.9 gr of #5 with a 230 gr XTP as a starting charge yielding 853 fps and a max charge of 11 gr yielding 969 fps form a 7.26" bbl.

thanks Mike..
unique.. the pistol version of 3031... dirty!

I have moved to Hodgdon's Titegroup for my milder loads in all of my handguns. I believe the 45 Cal XTP is actually 250 grs not 240 grs. Start with 6 grs and work to 7 grs of Titegroup and you should get about what you are after. Everytime I use this powder I get excellent results from the 32 H&R to the 500 Linebaugh.

thanks, and there are 200, 230, 240, 250 and 300 grain xtp bullets. covers all the bases, doesn't it?

why 240s? they didn't have anything else in stock!

I have been shooting 250 gr XTP with 24 gr H110 in a UBerti Iver Johnson Cattleman 1874 Colt clone with 4.75" barrel.

I get 1220 fps.

thanks tnekkcc
thats about what I expected, and h110 and win 296 SEEM to be pretty close in loads, about 1 gr difference..

i THINK 19-20 gr could get down to 900/1000 fps..

IIRC I was getting rifle at 1200fps with both a stout load of 296 AND a different load of like 11.5gr gr of something MUCH faster...

i want this gun to "live forever" and not be driven hard, hence the 900/1000 FPS area I want to be in.

I've gotten several suggestions, perhaps I'll get it worked out this week

Jeffe,

I don't think you got the point of my warning ... reduced loads of 296 have been known to detonate.

Apparently, the phenomenon is not reproducable or predictable. Thus, some folks have denied its likelihoods. However, loads reduced more than 3% below recommended max have also been known to squib resulting in projectiles lodged in the barrel and this is a relatively common experience.

Therefore, Winchester does not recommend that 296 be used for less than heavy loads ... and almost every loading manual I have seen over the years provides some caution about reduced charges of very slow powders such as H110 or WW296.

BTW: The only handgun calibers I've ever shot enough to wear out barrels are .38 Super and .45 ACP. I used to get 18-20K rounds on a ramped Nowlin Super barrel using 125 and 135 grain jacketed projectiles at 1475 fps and 1350 fps respectively. It will take a VERY long time to wear out a 45 LC barrel!

If you're really worried about that ... used cast bullets.

No there are 240 (surprise for me), 250 and 300 XTP's in the proper diameter for the 45 Colt. There are others sized smaller for the 45 ACP. Have you checked your throats? Ditto the above though. Reduced loads need faster powder than H110/W296. Read the manuals and it is clear. Given my my experience, Titegroup is what you need......

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
thanks Mike..
unique.. the pistol version of 3031... dirty!

Jeffe,
Alliant managed to clean Unique up a bit around five or six years ago. It's a bit better and all I use for light .44 mag (or .45 LC loads when I had a pair for SASS). Just in case you haven't used it in a while.

Mike,
trust me, I got the warning.. i am always "excited" about reduced loads in big bore rifles, and slow powder.. I hear yah! .. I am not worried about the barrel.. hech, i've only SHOT out a couple barrels of rifles, and that was largely because they there small bore big case... the SW DA/SA isn't as strong as the ruger, AND weighs about 2/3 as much .. i don't want to put undo wear on it for ego

Boxhead, I don't have the weebeastie yet .. should by this weekend, though I may load some in my ruger to test and compare 5.5 vs 4" barrel. Thanks for the advice on titegroup, i may buy a can

Rick
Thanks - I haven't bought a can of it since 2001, so I guess I can give it a go.

what about trailboss?

I REALLY don't like low percentage filled cases, guys .. which is why i keep wanting to go to 296 .. that, and I used to be a wincester powder fan, and have quite a bit of it laying around. 24 or so grains in my vaquero, which is a pretty mild load, considering, alway produced decent results ... oh well, i've learned on thing with the bigbore wildcats.. MY choice doesn't dictate performance!

Universal Clays and PowerPistol are very similar to Unique, but cleaner.

For a slower powder, 2400 would be a consideration. It can be loaded down safely.

BTW, H110 and W296 are the same.

I have done reduced loads in 45 Colt with H110.

With a lousy crimp, I can get a squib with 21 gr.
With a good roll crimp, I can get good ignition with 20 gr.

quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:
Universal Clays and PowerPistol are very similar to Unique, but cleaner.

For a slower powder, 2400 would be a consideration. It can be loaded down safely.

BTW, H110 and W296 are the same.

I agree, W296/H110 are not good for reduced loads. I'm also completely against using TG in big cases w/ heavy bullets, a KB waiting to happen if you double charge. Unique is not that dirty, I use it a lot in upper midrange 45colt loads. Under a 240grXTp, 9.5gr will get you prestty close to 950fps, 2400 is another good choice, try 16.5gr. I've used both those loads under 250grJHP in a 4 5/8" bbl., so you should get sim. reults

i wrote alot of this down, and went to the reloading store... (carter's on treishwig)
went with a can of powerpistol, as the place had basically no other suitable powders... had an 8#er of unique, 1 can of 2400, all the blue dot you could stand...

at about 10gr, that is really close, assuming some loss, to 700 rounds.. ought to see mt till sumer, maybe

good god, there's NO .452 bullets, brass, or cases available

I used to live in one of the subdivisions along Treishwig, spent way too much dinero at Carter's in the mid 80's.
Sad to think they're running low on life's little pleasures...

i found, and bought, some 2400 -- I was NOT impressed with the power pistol .. pretty consistent, but seemed to be 150 fps slower than what i was expecting, across the board.

I'll start at 14.5 and go to 17, by halves.

jeffe

I do not reload for the 45 Colt [Long Colt ] But I have loaded for the 44 Special and 44 Mag quite a bit.

For cast bullet loads in the 850 to 1050 fps range it is hard to beat Unique.

Once upon a time I tried SR 4756. It did burn cleaner, but was not near as accurate, especially at 50 yards.

I went back to Unique.

There are a lot of newer powders out there but Unique is still one of the best IMHO.

For your 240XTP in the 45 LC S&W start at 8gr and work up till you get the accuracy, recoil, and velocity you like.

Jeffe

With the 250 Hornady I have used 18.5 2400 for 1000 fps in a 4 inch S&W. 19.5 gives 1075 fps and 21 grs gives 1180 fps which I think is getting about to max with the S&W. Unique is not so bad, and have burned many pounds of the stuff in 45 colt. 12 grs Unique will give you 1125 fps in a 4" S&W and I consider that about enough for the S&W, probably 10 or so grs would give you a 1000 fps or so. 2400 does extremely well in 45 Colt. In fact for a 16 inch Winchester M94 I could give you some damn serious loads, but you better keep them away from the Smith!
Michael

Thanks guys!
about 18gr of 2400 then, for me. I have shot unique in the 357, 38, 10mm, and 45LC before.. not great big loads, just good middle loads.. or, in the case of ruger loads, most ruger shooters call me a chicken!

i may try unique again after some dev with the 2400s

From my experience with H110 the velocity is erratic until the pressure is on the high end. I loaded 335 grain LBT GC in my 45 Vaquero and the chrono was all over until I tried a charge of 23.5 grians and then it settled in between 1276 and 1300 ft/sec with most running in the 1290's. That load in that gun is a thumper and I don't plan on shooting very many at a single sitting. Where I have been doing chronograph testing I don't have a bench to do any real accuracy testing and have been shooting off-hand. I am looking forward to setting down and punching paper to see what kind of groups this will shoot, I hope is accurate enough so I don't have to do any more load developement as that is no fun even wearing a leather glove.

45 Colt is an easy loader, lot's of powders and bullets work extremely well. I have used red dot, unique, 2400, 296, H110, and nearly anything on the shelve and all does well. 296 and H110 need to be at the upper end for sure. Of the 2 of these I lean towards 296. But I prefer 2400 over either of 296 or H110. 2400 can go both ways, low and hi.

Just this week I noticed that I had run completely out of light loads in 45 Colt. I don't do other revolvers-no 44s, no 357s--45 Colt and 454 Cas. I have nearly every type of 45 Colt--from Colt SAA-the tiny Taurus-S&W-Ruger-and a dozen 4" Anacondas and then some more various 45 Colts! I also noticed I had several #s of old blue dot laying around with no use at all. So I put 10 grs of Blue Dot behind a 255 Cast bullet. How pleasant-like a big 22lr, in 6 inch S&W and Ruger I am getting 700 fps and in my little 16 inch Win 94 900 fps. Very pleasant, and will be fine for the Colts and other weaker guns. So I am busy loading up some of that blue dot currently. I am not saying that is what we all need to use--just that it works fine, shoots fine, is consistent and I am using it up instead of using my 2400 or Unique right now. That's all.

Michael

got it today

I loaded up 150 or so with 16.9gr of 2400 -- should be right at 900fps

We'll see, thanks everyone!

and that load worked out very nicely!

awesome handgun

quote:

Originally posted by Luckyducker:
From my experience with H110 the velocity is erratic until the pressure is on the high end.

I used this powder for Ruger .45 LC loads. It seems that it only gives clean and complete combustion if you approach that high pressure end.

Thus, I burnt the rest in the .222 and the Hornet (at high pressure).

Jeffe

Excellent, glad it turned out good. I have to get back on the 45 Colt loading, and 45 acp. Just finished 2500 223s for the stock pile, now have to get on these. Between my boys they have depleted my ammo stocks in all three of these cartridges!

Michael