The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Bullets spinning even after crimp!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
I need help....again.. I have two different brass for my 470NE 1) Hornady (anealed from factory) 2) Norma (came unprimed not anealed) The Hornady's were factory loaded with 570gr solids. After firing them, i trimmed the brass to shortest length and set the seating die for a full crimp. I am now loading 500gr solids into the brass and it crimps the brass fine, but i can still spin the bullet with little effort. I seem to get more neck pressure before it is crimped, but still not enough to justify not crimping it.... The Norma (never fired) brass is cut to the same length as the hornady's and the bullets crimp the same, but are nice and tight. What the heck is going on here??? Both kinds of brass were run through the same sizing die. Is my Hornady brass no good? | ||
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| one of us |
Could there be a difference in the thickness of the brass at the neck causing them to crimp differently? Too hard of a roll crimp can balloon the neck causing loose bullets. If the Hornady brass is thicker, it could cause a harder crimp. | |||
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| One of Us |
Your Norma brass is thicker then your Hornady Brass. Since your crimp die act on the outside of the neck, the thicker neck puts more tention on the bullet. This is a good example of why it is sometimes necessary to adjust your crimp die when changing brands or brass. | |||
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| One of Us |
Okay, what you guys are saying makes sense. Now i just went to the bench and sized one of the Norma once fired brass. The sizing die doesn't seem to be constricting the neck enough. The bullets should be hard to push in and out of the case after sizing, even before you crimp it, right??? I am sure i have the sizing die set correctly, and i have adjusted it a few times just in case and still i get a sloppy neck size. Could it be that my sizing die was machined too much from the factory? I have never had this problem with average caliber rifle brass. | |||
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| One of Us |
Bryce, yes it is possible that your dies were cut with a new reamer, creating a slightly oversized neck cavity. What dies do you have? | |||
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| One of Us |
RCBS | |||
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| One of Us |
by the nature of the proceedure, crimping will decrease the neck tension because it springs the neck away from the bullet as it bends the mouth of the case into the channelure. The crimp does not hold the bullet by friction but by the wedge of metal that is forced into the bullet's channelure. It is not uncommon to be able to twist the bullet around in store bought ammo that has been crimped. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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| One of Us |
it's neck tension. i have had to gring down the base of a few sizing dies before. the 38-40 rcbs set was a particularly miserable learning experience. it was the first time i had ever run into ths. i'd call rcbs and explain what you are getting in your sizing. inside and out side case diameters, and the diameter of the bullet your using. | |||
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one of us |
Send 5 sized cases and 5 fired cases to RCBS customer service at 605 Oro Dam Blvd in Oroville, Ca along with your die and a note of the problem you are having and they will fix it. Sounds like your expander button could also be big? Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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| One of Us |
If you haven't done it already,,you could try sizing a problem case with out having the expander button in place. It will leave the case mouth slightly smaller in diameter and may be a better friction fit for your bullet (before it's crimped). Worth a try and nothing to loose. | |||
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| One of Us |
RCBS has excellent customer service. Give them a call, they will take care of you. | |||
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one of us |
Measure the expander, it should be .004" smaller than the bullet diameter. | |||
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| One of Us |
Thanks, i did try it without the expander ball in and i still get similar results. I will definietly get a hold of RCBS, but again i am out of time before my hunt. Thankyou Everyone for the great tips! This has really helped. I will keep at it. I may just have to get a new sizing die for the time being. | |||
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| One of Us |
Guys, it is not a incorrectly sized expander ball that is doing this. It is the act of crimping the case neck that is causing it. As you bend the neck into the channelure, the rest of the neck wants to stay straight with the bent portion and so springs away from the bullet. Take a piece of paper and lay it on the table with a portion hanging over. Taking ahold of just the part that is hanging over, try to fold the paper over the edge of the table. You'll notice that the rest of the paper lifts up. That is what is happening here. As the poster said, refoming w/o the expander ball didn't solve the problem so what is RCBS gonna do?? Take one of your completed, crimped rounds and push the bullet against the wall. Hard. If you can't move the bullet, you have done what crimping is supposed to do. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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| One of Us |
So from what you are saying, even if i can spin the bullet i can still shoot it if the crimp is strong enough to hold the bullet in place?? | |||
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One of Us |
Bryce, I have reloaded quie a bit for the 470 using three different brands of brass and 4 different bullets including solids and softs. Never have I had a bullet spin before or after crimping. There is no way I would fly 8000 miles to hunt dangerous game with a bullet that spins in the case. BTW are you sure the Hornady loads were 570 grain bullets? I do not believe Hornady, Woodleigh, Barnes, or North Fork make a 570 grain in .474 bullet. The 470 Nitro doubles are regulated for the 500 grain at +-2100FPS. | |||
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| one of us |
Hey Bryce, "" NO "", do not take ammo with loose Bullets Hunting. Since you are out of time, it is "now time" to go buy 4-5 boxes of Factory Ammo, get the rifle sighted in and go enjoy the Hunt. I would think the $$$cost$$$ of the 470NE Factory Ammo would be enough of a "learning tool" that you will think about starting a bit sooner on the Reloads in the future - it would be for me. Best of luck on the Hunt. Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills. | |||
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| One of Us |
[] So from what you are saying, even if i can spin the bullet i can still shoot it if the crimp is strong enough to hold the bullet in place??[/QUOTE] Absolutely!!! Aim for the exit hole | |||
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| One of Us |
OKAY, i won't. I will get the factory ammo that is available ASAP! It has been quite a road the last 16 months with rifles! The reason i am scrambling a bit is that i ordered a custom built gun (416 Rigby) that is still not ready and was supposed to take about 8 months to make (part order issues). At Christmas time this year i decided not to chance waiting for that rifle and ordered the double in 470NE. I got that rifle in February and have been shooting it ever since. I already shot 60 rounds of factory ammo and thought it should be a breeze to reload more (i Have been reloading for 20years and no issues) I guess it just goes to show that you can never start too early on the preparation. Thanks for the advise. | |||
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Moderator |
call the die making company and ask them what they can do for you ASAP -- and call hornady and tell them the die maker and see if there is a known problem opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| one of us |
Hey Bryce, Once you contact RCBS, they will probably ask you to send them the Dies and 3-5 of the Cases you are having the problem with. I'd also toss in that many Bullets so they can see what is going on. Obviously non-Primed Cases with no Powder in them.   416Rigby and a 470NE  You must have some BIG Deer where you live.  Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills. | |||
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| One of Us |
Let's make it a hard as possible. Why not take some of the rounds out and shoot them?? Now there's a novel idea. See how they perform. And in the FWIW department: if you think a smaller neck sizing ball is the answer, it's a simple thing to take it out of the die (leave it on the stem), chuck it in a drill motor, and hone a couple of thousandths off. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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| One of Us |
I finally solved this issue. The sizing die is out of tolerance. It is indeed to large in diameter to constrict the neck enough. I got a set of Redding dies and they are working flawlessly. I am sure RCBS will correct the problem, but i didn't have time to wait for that. My retail distributer was kind enough to handle this for me. Thanks for the help everyone. Case Closed! | |||
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