Greetings gang!

I got my dad's old reloading stuff and after weeding out the bad stuff (old rusty cans of powder) I bought some needed stuff and ready to go to it.

I bought a tumbler locally for 30 bucks new (quick n easy I think sp?) and some Lyman red media. I have CCI Long Rifle primers and H4895 powder and Nosler Partition Spitzer bullets in 165GR.

I read a lot of threads and ready to go to it, I read my Nosler book on 30.06 and comfortable with the loads (I have an RCBS Uniflow ready to roll) and no problems with seating the bullets.

My first question is when I resized and popped out the primers, I noticed a line at the bottom of the shell. I can't feel any differences in shape with my fingernail however it concerns me. I placed the die in my press, ran my ram up to the die, turned slightly (thought about an 1/8 or so) and proceeded to resize and pop some primers out.

Before I did all 200 or so of my shells, I wanted to see if I should turn the die down a little more. Is there any concern to crushing the shell? The instructions say to turn 1/8 to 1/4 turn. I don't want to ruin my shells and believe me, I have only done a few until I get it down.

Here are some pictures.





This is a long tedious process to tumble, clean pop primers then I re-tumbled them and recleaned them.

Also, my RCBS lube pad is now filthy after I carefully wiped down each shell with a terry cloth, should I be worried? Should I clean the pad? There is no dirt on the pad that I can see and I know the importance of patience.

I want to have fun and keep using the reloading stuff my dad gave me.

The press is an RCBS JR3 and I'm using what looks like a Pacific Ram for 30.06, not the standard ram with a shell holder.

Thanks a lot for you time.....

quote:

My first question is when I resized and popped out the primers, I noticed a line at the bottom of the shell. I can't feel any differences in shape with my fingernail however it concerns me. I placed the die in my press, ran my ram up to the die, turned slightly (thought about an 1/8 or so) and proceeded to resize and pop some primers out.

The brass looks normal to me. The line isn't at all a sign of trouble.

quote:

Before I did all 200 or so of my shells, I wanted to see if I should turn the die down a little more. Is there any concern to crushing the shell? The instructions say to turn 1/8 to 1/4 turn. I don't want to ruin my shells and believe me, I have only done a few until I get it down.

Running the brass into the die until the shell holder touches the bottom of the die is "full length resizing" and returns the brass to original factory specs. There is nothing wrong with this and especially for hunting ammo.

Many reloaders choose to pay special attention to headspace and measure the amount they puch the shoulder back. The barss lasts longer this way.

You won't ruin the cases by full length resizing however. They will be fine.

Controlling headspace by setting the die a bit higher is something you'll want to do later when you get some miles behind you.

I still full length resize all my hunting ammo after 50 years of reloading.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I was curious and opened my new boxes of Remington 165gr 30.06 core lokt and they too have the line I'm talking about, only mine is more pronounced as they are soooo shiny!

I will continue to do what I was doing. The way it went into the die felt fine and I will do some measuring as well. I read that 5% + - is good to go.

Thanks again.

Aaron

Try them in your rifle instead of measuring.
Are they shot in your rifle? Maybee a bit more lube will make the line less shiny, resized brass have more marks than new in that area.

quote:

Originally posted by Nappers:
I have CCI Long Rifle primers and H4895 powder and Nosler Partition Spitzer bullets in 165GR.

Hey Nappers, It appears you are doing OK. I suspect you got CCI Large Rifle Primers, but do not take that as negative criticism, simply a minor terminology correction.

The H4895 is a good Powder in the 30-06, especially if you are using a semi-auto. I'd have selected either H4350 or more likely H414. That does not mean you did anything wrong. But it shows how well designed the 30-06 is to be able to handle such a wide Burn Rate in Powders.

quote:

I noticed a line at the bottom of the shell. I can't feel any differences in shape with my fingernail however it concerns me. I placed the die in my press, ran my ram up to the die, turned slightly (thought about an 1/8 or so) and proceeded to resize and pop some primers out.

Excellent pictures. The "Line" you are seeing is refered to as the Pressure Ring and is where the PRE portion of CHE & PRE is measured.

It is seen because that is the w-i-d-e-s-t portion of the Fired Case and is "Burnished" onto the Case. Depending on the Pressure, the Burnishing can happen as the Case is Extracted from the Chamber, but is more often done in the Resizing Die as it squeezes the Case back.

It can also be an indicator of Insipient Case Head Separation(ICHS), and is created by excess Headspace. It will happen on all Cases which are Full Length Resized(FLRed) and operated at normal to high pressure. If you happen to be using a semi-auto, pump or lever action 30-06, or if you are Hunting in Dangerous Game country, then it is wise to FLR the Cases and accept shorter case life.

If however, you are using a Bolt Action and not Hunting in Dangerous Game country, you might want to consider P-FLRing your cases. It will provide the very best possible accuracy and give you the longest case life when compared to all other Resizing Methods.

quote:

Before I did all 200 or so of my shells, I wanted to see if I should turn the die down a little more. Is there any concern to crushing the shell? The instructions say to turn 1/8 to 1/4 turn. I don't want to ruin my shells

You need to check for ICHS with the old Bent Paper Clip trick(ICHS Gauge). Cut the end off one end of a Paper Clip with a pair of side cutters. That will make a Chisel Edge on the wire. Then bend a 90deg angle in the wire about 1/8" back from the Chisel Tip so you have a small Scraper. Run the ICHS Gauge down into the Case and drag it up the side of the Case Wall adjacent to the Pressure Ring that you noticed. If you feel a small "Groove" there, then you have created ICHS due to your FLR Die "Adjustment" causing too much Headspace.

quote:

Also, my RCBS lube pad is now filthy after I carefully wiped down each shell with a terry cloth, should I be worried? Should I clean the pad? There is no dirt on the pad that I can see and I know the importance of patience.

Probably not a problem, but it will always be there unless you clean it off. "Dawn" dishwashing liquid has about as good a chance of removing that Lube as anything and will not damage the Pad. Soak it a bit and wipe it off. Then set the Pad out in the sun to dry. Reapply a small amount of new Lube, spread it around with your finger and I let mine normally set overnight to sink in, but you are basically ready to go.

quote:

I want to have fun and keep using the reloading stuff my dad gave me.

It looks like you are off to a good start.

Best of luck to you.

Hi Nappers
You are off to a good start and I agree you brass looks good. You have been given good advice by some very knowledge reloaders and there is not much I can add except to say have fun and you wont save any money reloading as you will shoot more and be on the never ending hunt for you perfect load. Hotcore has posted some very good info that is very informative.

The slight bulge/ring is common and appears where the case expands to the chamber. Below that ring toward the case head, the brass is solid and can not expand


Your chamber could be a little smaller and the bulge/ring would not appear but it does not mean your chamber is out of spec or has a problem. I get the same thing on my 30-06


You are correct that the instructions say to set your die down an additional 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Somewhere in that range is where your die will begin to push the shoulder back. You do not want to push the shoulder back any more than necessary but do want your loads to be easy to chamber.

So as you size, try the cases in your rifle and see if your bolt is harder to close than it is with an empty chamber. If it is harder to close then you need to adjust your die down just a little further and try again. A little bit of adjustment goes a long way and I find it helps to put witness marks on your die and press


I would adjust the die down 1/8 turn and try the case and if it does not have a crush fit, then leave it there. It is possible your cases have not fully expanded. In no case would I adjust the die down farther than 1/4 turn as that may push the shoulder back too far.

If your lube pad is getting dirty then it is possible you have too much lube on it. It only takes a little and should have only a very slight tacky feeling. Also on the cases you should only have a very slight tacky feeling cause you don't want too much lube on them. It will cause a dent, usually on the shoulder.

When you get further along and want to know exactly what is happening when you are resizing and want actual empirical data and measurements, let me know and I will clue you in to what "thingy" will actually further your education.

There are tools that you can purchase that will tell you where in the resizing/expanding process your case shoulder is and tools that will give you an actual measurement so you can set your seating depth of the bullets.

There are folks that reload to shoot and folks that shoot to reload. And all sorts of degrees in between. Wherever you ultimately fall in the spectrum, this is an interesting and fullfilling hobby (especially fullfilling when your shots cluster up into little, bitty groups).
IMO, before you get too enamoured with the gauges (aka thingies), I would suggest getting a Chrony when funds become available. They are one of the best "nice to have" items on your bench. They broaden your knowledge and add a diminion of versitility to your efforts. (imagine putting a rebuilt motor in a car without a speedometer or tac) And they are just fun to work with.
Lastly, as you progress and want info about neck turning and annealling and such, this is a good forum in which to get it. Woods and Hot Core are two of several very knowledgeable contributors that lurk here.
Just remember, when Woods and Hot Core get to screaming and cussing at one another over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, don't take it personal.

Uh...Yeah I meant Large Rifle Primers....

Thanks for the information, they are my favorites now and printed and in sheet protectors in my binder with the rest of my information.

I think I understand the Partial sizing, it is for a Remington 700 ADL bolt action. I can only get better with this stuff.

I plan on buying IMR 4350 as it says it's the most accurate powder for the bullet I'm planning on using.

I know this will start off being mild but will go up when I find different bullets and what not.....

I like to detail cars as well, and when I got my machines, pads, waxes etc my little bottle of soap and can of wax turned into hundreds of dollars of products!

I like the RCBS JR3 press and plan on using it for a long time to come. My dad also gave me a Lyman Ohaus beam scale and misc brushes, de-burrer etc.

Thanks for the help, it means a lot. I want to have fun and most important be safe. I don't have a lot of patience but I hope doing this will help me with that. Which is why I stick with a single stage press.

Aaron

quote:

Woods and Hot Core are two of several very knowledgeable contributors that lurk here.
Just remember, when Woods and Hot Core get to screaming and cussing at one another over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, don't take it personal.

LOL!

I've been a jailer for 16 years now, I can take it!

I have read a lot of threads and it's good these guys help so much! It's appreciated.

Hey Nappers,

If you've been a jailer then you should be able to handle HC just fine! Although if it was a psych ward then that would be even better!

Actually, we get to the same place, just using different methods and I actually understand how and why I got there.

There have been some phenomenal results using RL17 in the 30-06 lately.

Oh and BTW beeman, I have a thingy to measure how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Hey Turn-Key, Keep an eye on those folks who "recommend" high-tech Thingys and Super Thingies. Like wasting $$$money$$$ on chronographs .

quote:

Originally posted by Nappers:
...it is for a Remington 700 ADL bolt action.

There you go, a fine rifle indeed. I prefer the ADLs to the BDLs and CDLs. Biggest problem is you should expect small groups and fortunately they are easy to get in an ADL.

quote:

I plan on buying IMR 4350 as it says it's the most accurate powder for the bullet I'm planning on using.

That is about a perfect Powder for the 30-06 with 150gr and 165gr Bullets.

quote:

I like the RCBS JR3 press and plan on using it for a long time to come. My dad also gave me a Lyman Ohaus beam scale and misc brushes, de-burrer etc.

All excellent reloading equipment, capable of making first class Cartridges.

quote:

I want to have fun and most important be safe.

Good attitude, maintain it as you go forward.

quote:

I don't have a lot of patience ...

If you ever change your mind and actually believe you do have some"patience" ( ) you can follow some of the esteAmed Mr. Woods'(The THINGY King) recommendations for Thingys and Super Thingies. They tend to slap a fellow back to reality that "patience" is only available in minute quantities.
-----

Since you have an ADL, and the accuracy expectations are high{or they should be since you are able to pass the "I don't need any stinkin' THINGY(or THINGIES)!!!" requirement}, then you need a way to control Seating Depth and have confidence in it. That would be the old-faithful, never-fail, always-reliable OCL to ODL Seating Method.
-----

If a problem can't be resolved with Baling Wire, Duct Tape and/or common sense, it is rarely worth bothering with.

Good Hunting and Clean 1-shot Kills.

It's dang near a Psych ward with the state hospitals closing over the last few years.

Thanks for the help. I got more and more favorites on my Forum file in my favorites and more paper printed for my binder!

I just got a way to mount my press easily with plenty of support, my old place wasn't working to well.....don't ask!

L8R

Aaron

I am new to this forum also but have been on another for a while now. Mr. Woods is also on the other forum that I am on. He has a wealth of information to share with anyone. I also have been reading this forum for a long time now and have decided to join in. I have read Hot-Core’s posts and he also is someone to listen to for advice. However, as you know, the final decision is yours to make.

Now to my point. I am a .30-06 fan also and IMR4350 was my stand alone powder for many years (since the early 80s) then Alliant came out with the amazing RL-17. This is now my exclusive powder for my two .30-06s. This powder will take your 06 into .300 Win Mag territory without a corresponding increase in pressure. I have experienced no loss in accuracy with the switch either. On a bonus side this powder is of the newer breed that is insensitive to the ambient temperature. I have been testing this powder since February and have some pet loads for 150gr NBT, 165NBT, 168NBT-SMK, 175grSMK, 178gr AMax, and 180gr NBT. Most of the loads in the Alliant book for RL-17 are pretty mild in my rifles and so most of my pet loads are above book max. If you want I will pm them to you. I think you will really like them. As always, I’ll caution you to carefully work them up. If you use a chronograph it will be hard to believe the readings after you reach your rifle’s max load.

Happy Shooting
sonnyboy

Hey sonnyboy, welcome to AR.

I'm with you on the RL17 and the 30-06. I've only worked with it on a 200 gr bullet. Also got phenomenal velocity and no pressure in the 375 Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by sonnyboy:
... Mr. Woods is also on the other forum that I am on. He has a wealth of information to share with anyone. ...

Hey SonnyBoy, Welcome Aboard!

Just curious - was " ANY " of Mr. Woods' info correct???

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by sonnyboy:
... Mr. Woods is also on the other forum that I am on. He has a wealth of information to share with anyone. ...

Hey SonnyBoy, Welcome Aboard!

Just curious - was " ANY " of Mr. Woods' info correct???

It might be a little complicated for you to understand HC but all of it is 100% correct.

And 100% verifiable with hard data collected by experienced use of well designed tools!

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
It might be a little complicated for you to understand HC but all of it is 100% correct.

And 100% verifiable with hard data collected by experienced use of well designed tools!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
It might be a little complicated for you to understand HC but all of it is 100% correct.

And 100% verifiable with hard data collected by experienced use of well designed tools!

Hey there little buddy good to see that you are posting again.

Go ahead and visit the thread where you post all of YOUR elk hunting experience.

Respectfully yours.

Hey Hot Core:
Thanks for the welcome and yes Mr. Woods has been a big help to me in reloading. Once I joined the other site that we both are on I realized that I was only a "case stuffer" and knew nothing of precision loading. Mr. Woods was very helpful not to mention patient with me. I owe him a debt of gratitude. I have been reading this forum for about 3 months before I decided to join and have noticed that you are one of the more knowledgeable persons here. I also see where you are very passionate about your methodology in contrast to Mr. Woods methods. Both of you achieve the same goals with different paths to that goal. I also am a believer in the k.i.s.s. principle to a certain degree. One is I don’t trust digital readout “thingys” (I get a kick out of that term). They some of them depend on batteries and become unreliable as the batteries get old. Also power surges affect them. I use beam scales, dial calipers of high quality, and non-digital mikes for my measurements. I do this because of years of experience as a machinist. However, some of the “thingys” have proven useful to me in terms of saving time. Looking forward to reading more of your post sir.

Happy Shooting
sonnyboy

Hey SonnyBoy, You are absolutely correct that Mr. Woods and I have different approaches for Reloading. Sure makes it interesting to see one person go about it one way - and have excellent results. While someone else goes about it differently and also has excellent results.

Lots of good ways of going about achieving the same goal which is good for discussions.

Best of luck to you.