I'm about ready for a new chronograph, and would like to set thinks up a notch from my current Chrony Master Beta.

I'd be interested in hearing from the guys who have used the Ohler 43 and RSI pressure trace set up.

I see both have alot of extra options. Which one's are worth the money, and which are not?

Any help and advice would be appreciated.

you can't get a NEW ohler 43
http://www.oehler-research.com/model43.html

quote:

Oehler has reluctantly suspended production of handloader equipment, including the Model 35 and the Model 43. Our current inventory of handloader systems is depleted.

both use strain gauges

you can get the same from RSI today

So, unless you have access to a NOS or used 43, your choices are
RSI

Oehler is making a special run of the Model 35P. Deliveries will begin in late summer, 2010. First come first serve.
http://www.oehler-research.com...4ff2a3b2a+1278345065
Bill

Bill,
a 35 is a chrono ..

a 43 is a pressure lab AND chrono ... i'd like the 42 back, with new software for win7

I've an Oehler M43 and am very satisfied with it. It is unfortuneate that it is not currently available. Perhaps the "new guy" at Oehler Research will bring it back as he has the M35P.

I've not used the RSI. When I inquired about it it was not available.

Larry Gibson

You can get the Strain Gauges from many places. Just get some, Super-Duper Glue them all over your Chambers, get some Wires(size really doesn't matter - from tiny Hair size strands to Jumper Cables will do fine - then run the wires over to a Concrete Block. The Pressure Info you get from the Block will be just as "Valid" as you will get from the Non-Calibrated, Guessed-At Dimension, outside a Lab environment, Haphazard(per Dr. Oehler) SGSs.

A HSGS = Reloaders Pytite(aka Fool's Gold)
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On the other hand, it would ALWAYS be good for a few grins to see AS totally waste his money on one.

Hot core. I think I would be able to tell more with a chronograph and a strain gauge then you can tell with nothing, but you are welcome to remain in the stone age.

Don't use "nothing". I do use the time-tested, always-reliable, never-fail,relatively inexpensive, venerable, CHE & PRE which have been in constant use by ALL the Ammo, Powder and Firearm Manufactures for well over a Century.

Not trying to sway you away from spending your $$$money$$$ on a Haphazard SGS if that is what you want to do. Just letting you know they are as worthless as obummer when used outside a Lab Environment. When they can't be properly Calibrated, you use Guessed at Dimensions and Fudge Factors, the info(certainly not Data) just isn't accurate.

But, you should do what you want with your $$$money$$$.

quote:

Don't use "nothing". I do use the time-tested, always-reliable, never-fail,relatively inexpensive, venerable, CHE & PRE which have been in constant use by ALL the Ammo, Powder and Firearm Manufactures for well over a Century.

Hot Core, I've tried CHE & PRE before, and they are completely and totally worthless. Now I understand that due to your difficulty with technology you still knapp your own flint bullets, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us born after 1900 are not able to gleam some valuable information from these modern tools. Now these tools will have limits, and it's important to understand and respect these limits, but that does not mean they are without value. When I purchase new tool, I do not ask that they are perfect, I just ask that they are better then what I already have, and a reasonable value for the money.

I know you are just trying to help (in your own unique way), but itt's important to understand that just because you are not trained in the fine art of data analysis, it does not mean the rest of us are not. So on this subject I will choose to listen to the guys who use and understand the products I'm asking about.

Jeffe, there is a NOS model 43 listed on Gunbroker, but it has alot of options, and is alot of money. Since you are probably the only person on the site to use both, how would you rate your experience with the RSI?

in a nutshell, the 43 is probably "better" for a chrono.. the software is RATHER out dated .. it doesn't support vista or win7, and is serial..

that means "real time" is going to be choppy.. you can look up sampling rates between onboard computer and serial .. about 100:1, if you are looking for tech

does your laptop have a serial port on it? i haven't seen one on a "good" laptop in awhile.
you probably have bluetooth, or a connector is less than 50 bucks.

newer software, runs on win7, and 1/3 the cost of the oehler on gunbroker ...

its a no brainer to me .. you can buy a pocket full of gauges and still be 40% o the cost. (757 vs 2500)

to ME its simple and over and done ...

Thanks Jeffe, that's a big help.

sure thing, even if its "aesoteric"

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Bill,
a 35 is a chrono ..

a 43 is a pressure lab AND chrono ... i'd like the 42 back, with new software for win7

Yes you are corect. I was just pointing out the avalibility of the 35.
Perhaps if there is enough intrest they might bring back the 43.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
I've tried CHE & PRE before, and they are completely and totally worthless.

If a person does not follow this Procedure for using CHE & PRE, then his Data will be "almost as worthless" as the info from a Haphazard SGS. On the other hand, if a person follows that Procedure - exactly - they will have the finest possible Pressure Indication Methods available for their immediate use.

As a matter of pure Fact, only CHE works well for people using Wildcats. Primer Pocket Life will also work, but it is only noticed on the "Next Reload", not immediately after a shot. When you know what is going on immediately after a shot "Pressure Wise", then you can choose to continue shooting, or STOP. Looking at a chronograph or a Haphazard SGS will never tell you, with any reliability.

Here is a great, totally objective Test Comparison of good old CHE vs. a Haphazard SGS - a M43(outside a Lab Environment). It is interesting to note that "onefun" was so totally embarrassed by the results of his (rag) M43 in comparison to a relative "new user" of CHE, that onefun removed his results.

Fortunately, I'd copied them down to look them over and still had them. For some reason, that thread is colloquially refered to on this Board as "The GLOATING Thread."
-----

But, as I said before, it is your $$$money$$$ and you should spend it as you think is best. Actually it would be kind of nice to have someone besides "onefun" and "larry" to laugh at about their HSGSs.

Please, Hot Boor. The only one embarrassing themselves around here is YOU.

Originally posted by Hot Core:
We got no M43 data because the battery was dead.

We got no M43 data because a wire was ripped loose.

We got "normal" M43 data because the Strain Gauge was not glued on properly.

We got strange M43 data because the wind blew it over on shot #3 and goofed something up.

We got No Reading with the M43 on the last two shots because the $2500 Laptop fell to the concrete and became Land Fill.


Hotcore, the only thing you managed to prove in that 5 page threat is your incompetance with modern technology. If you could not understand the information presented to you in that thread, then I can not help you.


Please be assured, I will not convert to your 7th century religion of CHE/PRE. So please, take off the suicide belt, crawl back in your cave, and go back to knapping flint. I imagine you make a really mean Folsom Point.

Thanks for all the other comments. I would appreciate any additional insite regarding the RSI or any other affordiable pressure testing equipment. I am especially interested in hearing from folks carry back up batteries for the electronics, are comfortable with modern conviences like glue, and believe dropping a $2500.00 computer on concrete is as offensive as someone dropping a $2500.00 rifle on concrete.

Thanks again.
Antelope Sniper.

Hey BEAFool, I thought you got laughed off the Board. Looks like I was wrong about that. I see you still have the same amount of "wisdom" you have always been noted for.
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Hey AS, Man I'm now "ALL FOR" you getting a Haphazard SGS. Should be good for a whole bunch of grins. Darn shame Jeffe gave you the scoop on the "dated" M43. I had no idea at all about the Serial Port necessity. Sure would have been amazing to see how you would have coped with a Used one and no way to hook it up.

Do you think larry and onefun's Serial Port Laptop computers will last 2, maybe 3 more years? You could probably get a Tower and add a Serial Port Board though. Should be a lot of fun toting a Tower to the Range along with a Generator for Power.

The 0.0001" capable Micrometers do not need a Serial Port, Strain Gauges glued all over your firearms, no fragile wires to break off or trip over, no need for a computer, a generator, nor a trailer truck to haul them. They just work GREAT!!! But, they have only worked GREAT for Pressure Indications for well over 100 years. I can see where Tried and True just won't fit your needs. Obviously waaaaay to complicated for you.
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A sincere Best of Luck to you when you get your Haphazard SGS. I look forward to it.

It will hook to my laptop just fine:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...No=4974053&CatId=464

But if you can't use glue, or change a battery I can't expect you to understand a USB to Serial connector.

I would appreciate any additional insite regarding the RSI or any other affordiable pressure testing equipment. I am especially interested in hearing from folks carry back up batteries for the electronics, are comfortable with modern conviences like glue, and believe dropping a $2500.00 computer on concrete is as offensive as someone dropping a $2500.00 rifle on concrete.

In addition, I'd like comments from those that appreciate the value of "Pressue under curve", and obtaining multiple data points on a single test, vs one data point on multiple tests.

Antelope Sniper,

You can just buy the strain gages a card and software from Omega (www.Omega.com) and more than likely save a considerable amount of money. You will need to write a simple Excel or Matlab program to then convert the measured micro-strains to chamber pressure in psi (or any other unit of pressure you desire depends on unit conversion). You will need to carefully measure the chamber wall thickness directly under the strain gage. That's about it. Simple really.

the only "trick" is finding your barrels wall thickness where you are placing the gauge .. after that, it's just shooting...

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
the only "trick" is finding your barrels wall thickness where you are placing the gauge .. after that, it's just shooting...

No trick, all you need is an ultrasonic thickness gauge. You should be able to find some one who has one or a NDI shop that will do it for not too much money. I would make measurements in several places down the barrel to save time latter if you want to change your recording point.
Bill

Antelope Sniper

I appreciate all the data information the M43 provides. For each shot the M43 can provide; velocity at the close screens, velocity down range (up to 100 yards), proof velocities for both, Time of flight to down range screens, ballistic coefficient (calculated on actual TOF loss and atmospheric conditions), peak pressure, area under the pressure curve, rise of the pressure curve and a pressure curve.

It also provides summery dat of the averages of all the above with an SD and ES for each. I also get the corrected to the muzzle velocity, energy, recoil ft/lbs and trajectory data to 500 yards in whatever increments I choose.

The required input data is quite a bit but not difficult to do. I do not have any difficulty getting the outside measurement of the barrel and the inside measurement of the chamber where the gauge is going to be attached. I've no problem with connecting the M43 to my Toshiba LT. The batteries for both the LT and the M43 are easily replaced and readily available. I've used battery power for 5 hours without problems. I mostly test at a range where 110V is available and use it with an extension cord. Set up is not difficult and easily done by myself.

If the LT crashes I have all the data backed up and I also have the XP programs so i can install a new drive and simply reload the programs and run back up restore. My LT runs as fast as I can use the key board. I also have Vista on my home PC and don't see any advantage over XP with the M43 program.

It all works very nice for me. I suppose if i were a real computer guy I could ask for some improvement (don't know what though) but then all "computer guys" are never happy with someone else's computer. That's why I no longer let them change anything on mine to "make it better".

It is too bad the M43 is no longer available. Perhaps again in the future though and maybe updated to VISTA or whatever. I really enjoy the information I recieve from the M43. It has provided many answers to questions I've previously only guessed at. It also has provided a few surprises. I still use my M35P for simple chronographing but the M43 is used for serious load development or ammuntion testing.

Larry Gibson

Scott, thanks for the information on Omega. Your electronic skills are probably a little better then mine, so I would probably be better served with a purpose build unit. I had heard that some guys buy the straingauges from companies such as omega to same money, and have good results doing so.

Larry, thanks for the write-up. It sounds very useful, when it's in capable hands. Hopefully they do begin to market an updated version sometime in the near future. I'm sure the RSI would meet all my needs, but it would be nice to have a choice. As you said, I'm sure it would answer alot of questions. Thanks again.