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One of Us |
I've read articles in different periodicals and reloading manuals that suggest the .222 and .308 Win as being "Inherently Accurate". What is it about them that make them inherently more accurate than another cartridge of the same caliber? **************************The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. | ||
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one of us |
I wish somebody would tell me as well. Sounds like a bullshit word used by writers who are getting paid so much per word and a way to pack the article for a few pennies more. Paul B. | |||
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One of Us |
Don't know but I assume it's their accomadating nature and balance. When it doesn't seem to matter what you pour into the cases, the rifle digests it and does a good job with it. I can think of half a dozen cartridges or more that can be loaded to the same preformance level with several different powders/bullets/primers/cases, etc. It just doesn't seem to matter. And then a couple ie .225win & 25-06, come to mind that have such a narrow performance window that you can end up talking to yourself. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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One of Us |
IMO it's all BS....the assumption that something about them has "inherited" a characteristic simply defies logic. I won't deny that both the cartridges listed are typically accurate but so is the .243, the .220 S, the .25-06, the .264, the .223, the .17 rimfires, and the list goes on and on! Some might say that the .30-30 isn't "inherently" accurate.....put it in a finely tuned bolt rifle and see what it does!!!!! Inherently accurate and "insipient" case separation are totally misunderstood....both terms should be deleted.....but they persist... BTW...."insipient" means simply "the early signs"..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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one of us |
Yeah, I think some cartridges are more inherently accurate than others. Here's what Bart Bobbitt has to say about it: 308 vs. 30/06 One factor Bart sometimes mentions is shoulder angle. Sharper shoulders headspace more positively and this contributes to better accuracy. Plus, I think this guy is onto something: Superior Ballistics, Inc. | |||
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One of Us |
Several years ago had the opportunity to read a report of tests conducted by NATO regarding inherent/potential accuracy of various rounds and the ratings were whether they were capapble of a 1,2,3,etc. grouping. 1 being one tenth, 2 tenths, and so on. 7.62/308 was scored as a 1 round and believe the 223 was as well. There were some others in that range, but not very many. Supposedly the test was done over a 10,000 rnd. duration(not the same barrel I was told) and Lapua brass and rifle was Rem.40X. No load or bullet data was provided and I was able to purchase quite a bit of the once fired brass. Still using some of it today. This took place some 20 years ago and sure today other cartridges would also produce such results. | |||
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One of Us |
For most shooters, the difference is too small to notice, but there is no doubt that some cartridges are inherently more accurate than others. High level benchrest shooters have proven that for many decades. The 222 was king for a number of years and now other cartridges have surpassed it. Again, the differences are slight, but there is no doubt that it is true. | |||
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One of Us |
Both are very accurate, I think the designers knew what they were doing, but they also got real lucky. | |||
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One of Us |
BEcoole, Cool article by Mr. Bobbitt. Looks like the guys at Superior have done their homework too. Thanks to everyone contributing. As to be expected there is a lot of guys here with a lot great experience and information. Brad **************************The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. | |||
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one of us |
Although the concept of "inherent accuracy" is somewhat elusive, IMHO there is little doubt there is some truth involved. To your lineup of .222 Rem and .308 Win it would be more than fair to add calibres such as 6mm PPC etc. Problem is, to conclusively prove a cartridge "inherent accurate", you'd have to test such a large number of rifles and calibers that you'd be able to show statistical significant differences in (average?) accuracy. Hard job... - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Moderator |
some cases are more effeceint, i believe .. but inherently accurate? i tend to disagree .. after all, the 300 HH has NONE of the characteristics normally assocaited with inherently accurate, but still turns in great groups .. and a 416 rigby shouldnt be, but is generaly 1/2 moa opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
No BS about it.Case design is crucial to a cartridges "inherent accuracy".Just take a look at the bench rest record books and see how the 6m PPC kicks butt.It has set more records than any other cartridge in history.It's little brother the 22PPC uses the same case and dominates it's class.Many of the newer cartridges are based on their design-short/fat. | |||
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One of Us |
I'm not going to say the "BS" comment is "BS" or not, but if some cartridges were "inherently" more accurate than the others, we would all be shooting the most "inherently" accurate ones. The rest would be history (not). NRA Life Endowment Member | |||
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One of Us |
I have to agree with this post YES some cartrige designs ARE more inherently accurate than others. That's why more records have been set with th PPC than others. | |||
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Moderator |
with respect, i disagree. IMHO what i am hearing is if you made a 1" long 22PPC, it would be more accurate than a 22PPC? is that the myth we are talking about? the ppc is a great round, without a doubt. But where is the "short and fat" part adding to accuracy? there's several round fatter, and several shorter .. We have NOT seen marked accuracy improvements of the 300wsm to the 300win nor the 25 WSSM to the 25-06, have we? and the 25wssm is certainly both short and fat. if short and fat meant SQUAT a 22BR or WSSM would be MORE accurate than a 22PPC .. base to bore ratio (fat) BR 2.09 WSSM 2.455 PPC 1.98 length to bore BR 6.78 WSSM 7.456 PPC 6.72 a large part of bench shoot is the SHOOTER .. the VERY MILD recoil of a PPC might add to the shooters skill, though easy enough to prove .. make a 1" long 22PPC case rifle and see if it shoots BETTER than a standard 22PPC .. if it does, there might be something to it if it doesn't, then its just pantherpiss opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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One of Us |
I think it's a matter of hitting on just the right case dimensions through careful trial,error,and analysis along with the rest involved in load development.I suspect it took years of this before Palmisano and Pindell finally settled on their two rounds as we know them today. | |||
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One of Us |
Bart Bobbit was shooting when the 308 came onto the target scene. Accuracy is quite relative. In the post Bart posted on thefiringline.com, he says a 30-06 will hold 6 inches at 600 yards, a 308 half that. I wish I could keep all my shots within six inches at 600 yards, but even if I was shooting straight for all those shots, that thing called the wind blows bullets around. I challenge anyone with any handheld rifle to keep 20 shots within six inches at 600 yards. http://thefiringline.com/forum...ight=308#post3588028
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One of Us |
No one is sure why, but some cartridges do exhibit better accuracy than would seem likely. But if it was a simple formula all the cartridge makers would jump on it and produce a line of super accurate ammo. Actually, it means so little as to be irrelivant to most of us. Spending money for a quality barrel and fitting it in a well stocked quality action will improve accuracy much more quickly and surely than messing with the chamber. To the tiny degree "inherent accuracy" is true requires averaging a lot of rifles in any given cartrige and the use of a precision caliper to demonstrate even a slight "average" difference. | |||
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One of Us |
I once built a stevens 200 around a shilen select match bbl with the express purpose of cambering it on a cartridge generally viewed as being as inherently INACCURATE as possible.. 7.62x39mm It would regularly shoot groups in the .2's IME inherent accuracy based on the cartridge shape is a complete load of bullshit. However when you take into account the quality of components and gear to load for that cartridge there may indeed be a kernel to truth. The rifle, load and quality of components matter. Whats stamped on the casehead does not ---------------------------------------- If you waste your time a talkin' to the people who don't listen To the things that you are sayin' who do you thinks gonna hear And if you should die explainin' how the thing they complain about Or the things they could be changing who do you thinks gonna care Waylon Jennings | |||
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