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While finishing up some reloading chores today, I managed to do the un thinkable. I was in a hurry and trying to get to an appointment that I had used up more time than I was allowed. As I was reloading with Re 15 and while cleaning up, I picked up a brand new 8# canister of H4831and before I realized what I was doing I had emptied about 300 grains of RE 15 into a full 8# canister of H4831 (cost about 140 USD) I immediately emptied the top 1 1/2 -2 pounds of powder out onto a target, done while rotating the canister to try to get all of the Re 15 out. What now? How do I know that all the Re 15 is out? Do I throw all the 4831 out? How much chance am I taking? Any way to really know? Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | ||
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Consider it a cheap lesson concerning the serious consequences of not paying attention while engaged in this pastime. I'm not going to tell you what to do with this quandry. You'll figure it out I'm sure, but remember, Nature gave you extra fingers and eyes so you could afford to lose some of them.   If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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Throw all 8 pounds away. | |||
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Tough to answer for certain, but if you are confident you were able to remove the first pound or so off the top of the keg you're probably fine. As a precaution I'd make certain the the remainder of the powder is sifted/mixed very thoroughly so that if there is a few grains of RL15 in there it will be such a minute percentage that it's insignificant. I've always feared doing exactly this same thing, so as a precaution I make it a habit to not have ANY other powder cannisters anywhere near the bench other than the powder I'm currently using. I store all the other powders in another room so it's nearly impossible to empty your powder dispenser into the wrong cannister. This way even a week or two later you can deduce that the powder in the dispenser is the same as the can on the bench. .22 LR Ruger M77/22 30-06 Ruger M77/MkII .375 H&H Ruger RSM | |||
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D That's a tough one to give advice on but I think it has to be your decision to make. I know what I would do. I would take the entire 8 pounds and thoroughly blend it by pouring back and forth between 2 or 3 containers. Then I would use it. If you only mixed in 300 grains that's less than 1/2 of 1 percent. In a typical charge of 60 grains that would mean only about .3 grains of RL assuming you got it blended thoroughly. I doubt you could tell any difference but you could always drop any recommended charges by 1/2 grain or so and look out for high pressure signs. If it's any comfort to you, the factories routinely blend powders to acheive a specified burn rate and I know many benchrest shooters who blend powders for the same reason. I'm one of them. As long as you're aware of the situation and take all normal care in handloading I think you'll be OK. Good Luck Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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The 4th of July is coming up. Get a large pipe with endcaps and some #6 dynamite caps....... Nah!!!! Just throw it away! If DigitalDan and I agree on something..... it must be right....... | |||
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Dump it, cry and get on with life. Shit happens. - mike ********************* The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart | |||
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Im with cheehako on this one blend it and blend it again and again a 4th time you did not dilute it all that much. If you are really worried about it laod it like you would IMR4340 powder which is faster than your 4831 and you will be more than safe. you will not even know the differance IMO  By the way you probably did not add enough to affect the burn rate as they vary from the factory from lot to lot. If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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Spread it on the lawn, it makes good fertilizer with all the nitrogen it contains. This will create a situation avoidance behavior modification especially when you consider the $140 you just lost. RELOAD - ITS FUN! | |||
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Haven't used either of these powders, so I browsed over to Steves Pages, and picked a 30-06 with a 165 grain bullet: http://www.again.net/~steve/308_8_165.html IMR-4831 From 49.3 grains to 61.0 grains RL-15 From 40.0 grains to 52.0 grains If you are really paranoid about this, pick the overlap on the upper side of the RL 15 loading and you'll be fine. Personally, it sounds like you got most of it out and I'd just make sure it was well mixed. However, if you are conservative in your loading you could also find a loading to use the extra 1 1/2 pound also. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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F':k me I don't beleive some of the shit I just read here, just dump the stuff what's a few $$ how much is your face and firearm worth, what's a few slabs of beer worth, why stuff around mixing the shit, I can't beleive the question has been asked...jesus christ | |||
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Thats KINDA what I'd say. We'll all do it sooner or later. And what you gotta consider is thats not an amount your going to use in a day. You could stuff a load into a gun in months from now when your all alone somewhere,and find yourself trying to run out of the bush with your hand blown off or blind,or lying there dying..Just sit and visualize that picture,then re-read the above quote | |||
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Mix it up and use it. if you want try a few loads out on the light side. But the amount mixed in is so small I don't think you'll see a differants. | |||
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I got some 4227 and a little 700x ,if you wanta fire them in too  | |||
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It's not like you mixed rat poison into ice cream. You mixed gun powder into more gun powder. Just different burn rates and at a 1/2 of 1% rate which is very small. It's a big time screw up for sure but if it was mine I'd test fire a few rounds at starting loads (after throughly mixing the powder) but do so in a manner that only exposes the gun to risk. Certainly not the hands and eyes etc. This is not hard to do. I believe the risk is so small that I personally would be willing to risk a gun to salvage $140 in powder. To me this is merely a matter of risk management. Remember I said I'd be willing to risk my gun on it and not my body! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Tracks and others I think you guys are being a little over dramatic and paranoid here. He mixed a little RL with his 4831, not TNT! Now you have him risking his face and firearm and Charger's got him running wildly through the woods with his hand blown off and blind!. C'mon! You guys need to turn off the TV once in a while. Powders are mixed and blended every day. Use a little common sense. Ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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At the top of every burn rate chart in bold letters"Not to be used for load development"I think(now this is just my opinion)that they do that because,although the burn rate of two powders might be beside each other on the chart.Their pressure curves,reactions with the heat from each other might be totally different...You know,not that long ago we had a post load tumbling post.As I remember it was unanimous no no because it changed the burn characteristics of some of the granuales of the identical powder within the case.Now we're going to mix and match..Hodgdons tech guys will tell you to back off 5% and creep back up when changing mere lots of the identical powder,AND STILL we're going to knowingly have two diff powders....Oh you super smarter than every tech one else devils | |||
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D hunter Dont worry about it,substiuting a mag primer would have more effect on your loads than what little dilution you have made to your powder. Use 4350 load data and you will be fine.And work up from there watching for signs of pressure. I'll bet you wont find any before your case is full. 4831 regardless of mfgs it is still a very slow powder. If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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I have to side with Cheechako on this one. If we were talking a half and half mixture, I'd whole-heartedly recommend you dump it all. However, considering that even if you poured the 1 1/2 pounds of mixed back in you'd have such a minute difference, I don't think you're running a huge risk. Just toss the 1 1/2 pounds, mix the rest real well (more for consistency than anything) and drop your load by a grain and test it out. While there's no scientific way to prove it, I'd venture a guess that you'd be more at risk from crossing the street in front of the gun store to buy some replacement powder... What is life, if not a series of risks? Tim People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. George Orwell | |||
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Let me know how it shoots, I might want to try it myself!  Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens ____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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D ‘Cause I'm such a nice guy I'll take it off your hands. Might even pay shipping. Shawn Have you cycled your PF upside down lately????? God Bless http://www.davidchristmangunmaker.com/ http://i257.photobucket.com/al...wnhound/f66262d4.jpg | |||
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Thanks for all opinions. They have been very educational. I have decided that the first 1 1/2 # are fertilizer. The next 6 or so # will be shot. My son and I have played catch with the canister for about 15 minutes trying to spin the can in one direction or another on each toss. I will use it as new powder with an unprinted load formula. I will look for pressure signs and excessive velocity. Hang on to your buns troops. If necessary I will keep in touch from my hospital bed. Have a nice day and good hunting. D Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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Best mark the jug with a new label, just to be ultra safe. | |||
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I would blend the powder and use it. In general, lot-to-lot of the same type powder will have the same if not comparable variance in burn rate as what you just made. | |||
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Loaded it and used it in my 300 winmag today. I had trouble even getting to book velocities much less getting to excessive pressure/velocities. 100-200 fps slower than book. It is a slow barreled rifle anyway. Much to some people's dismay, I did survive the experience. I do not recomend using mixed powder. I will now and for always keep all powder in the next room. Only one canister at a time in the loading room. D Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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D Some of us told ya glad you listened! The books sometimes stretch their findings,some don't, and every rifle is differant. If I wanted faster I would load heavier loads but watch for pressure signs. And go slow you are using a good power for that cartridge.Some books are differant by as much as 4-8 grains in the medium mags. If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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my opinion: you just lost $140 worth of powder, but that is a lot cheaper than sewing your hand back on from a bad accident at the range. Call the powder companies and see what they say. Powders should NEVER be mixed. It is absolutely not worth the risk. IMO. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Guys, There is absolutely nothing wrong w/ the powder. 300 grains of R15 into 8 lbs of 4831 is a ratio of 0.5%. That is less of an impact than different brands of primers have on loads. Also, w/ dumping the top 1.5 lbs. that probably narrowed the contamination percentage down to .1% or less, That's less than lot variation on most powders. I would seriously doubt that you could tell a difference in velocity, accuracy, pressures, etc. etc. between the contaminated powder and a brand new lot of H4831. I would imagine that we have all shot factory loads that were more contaminated than this. Shoot It! Reloader | |||
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For shit sakes already.....Mix all your ucking powders together in one big heap and get on with it..Christ you must have heard what you wanted to atleast 20 times on here. Does that not apease you | |||
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Hey Charger,,,I got a chuckle from your last post,,But you really need to lighten up a bit,,,,maby check your blood pressure  .Theres people out there making duplex and tri-plex loads,,and been doing it for years,,,Not that I do it but,,,Some people think they can make a rounder wheel  Your friend Clay. 8 lb of powder is 56000 grains,,,300 grains of a somewhat similar powder,.23 lb into 8 lb. thats pretty small,,I'd mix it and run with it with a bit of caution,,,Heck you might create a seceret recipie.Or have the biggest tomatoes in the county If you decide to dump it Clay | |||
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This ranks as one of the least intelligent posts I've ever read on any forum on the internet. Congratulations Charger. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Goodness you never cease to amaze me. | |||
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It's probably that you're so easy to amaze!!! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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buy another keg and mix the two - the dilution solution - 300 grains in 16 lbs or 24 | |||
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Me and you both know what I mean too. | |||
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Yes I have heard what I wanted to hear at least a dozen times whether I wanted to dump it or use it. Truth be known I think I got 90+% of the offending powder out so that the dilution factor is more like 30 gr in 6 #. So I think I am OK. Thanks again for your thoughts both pro and con. PS Never mix powder intentionally! But use your head no matter what. Good hunting. Although cartridge selection is important there is nothing that will substitute for proper first shot placement. Good hunting, "D" | |||
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 "Explanation? Post-disaster examination and resultant investigation by the neighbor revealed that the canister of powder consisted of a layered mixture of at least three distinctly different spherical powders!" | |||
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IIRC (from reading the thread) that was a roughly 1/3:1/3:1/3 mixture, prepared and re-sealed into a jug in an apparently deliberate effort to cause chaos! WAY different from a 300 grains in 56000 grain mixture! Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. | |||
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Especially one that has overlapping powder charges. My example above used a 30-06 and a 165 grain bullet, but 51 grains of either powder is a safe load in that combo. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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