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Howdy Pards! I think our Dillon electronic powder scale is giving up. I want to replace it, but was wondering if there were thoughts on who's powder scale is the most accurate from case to case. Thanks! Bystander | ||
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Why go digital...again? Why not get something you can trust and will last a LOOOONNG time? Like an RCBS (Ohaus made) 505 or 1010 balance scale instead? Mine is over fourty years old and works as well as new, and is very sensitive to trickling powder too. As a retired electronics instrument tech - in both space and defence industries - I wouldn't have a digital powder scale unless it was free! And, so far, they don't give 'em away. | |||
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The best digital scale is a Denver Instruments APX-153. I have one, but never use it for reloading. For weighing powder, I use an old Ohaus I bought in the 1950's. I throw light, and trickle up. I use the Denver for weighing bullets and 22 Rimfire ammo to sort it for best accuracy. I could never adjust to a digital scale for weighing powder. I think that the very best route to go for loading would be an RCBS Chargemaster. I don't have one, but bought one for my son who shoots High Power competetively, and he loads lots of 223 ammo. He likes it. I don't shoot enough to make it worthwhile. Don | |||
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I have eight progressive presses and no digital scales.....take it from there. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Personally I do not like the digitals. As Jim pointed out, the digitals I have tried to not react quickly enough when trickling for each charge. My RCBS 10-10 will move as every kernal of powder is dropped in! Now that being said, I have an RCBS digital that I use for weighing cases and for initial set-up of my powder throws. It works great for those and weighing bullets but, I don't like the slow response when trickling. PS  just for a quick question! vapo, what are you using for progressives?______________________ Smedley  ______________________ From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.' B.H.Obullshitter ------------------------------------ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" Winston Churchill ------------------------------------ "..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.." Samuel Adams ------------------------------------ Facts are immaterial to liberals. Twisted perceptions however are invaluable. ------------------------------------ We Americans were tired of being thought of as dumb, by the rest of the world. So we went to the polls in November 2008 and removed all doubt.....let's not do it again in 2012 please. | |||
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1. RCBS grand 20 Ga 2. Mec 9000G 20 Ga 3. Mec 9000G 12 Ga 4. Hornady Lock & Load AP 5. Hornady 366 28 Ga 6. Dillon 650 7. Dillon 550 8. Dillon 550 and my scale: an Ohaus balance beam with Dillon's name on it. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Some good information for you here: http://www.6mmbr.com/powderdispensers01.html ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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I use a lyman digital and would never go back. I love a digital. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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A lot of handloaders say a good powder measure is all you need. Some say weighing every load with the tried and true beam scale is the best method. I’ve done both, and they both work fine. For peace of mind I weight every rifle load. I also have an Ohaus beam scale which I’ve used for around thirty years. I used the “throw a light charge and trickle the rest in†method. This part of the loading process was the part I dreaded. Set the scale up and zero-set the powder measure to the right weight – throw a charge – weigh the charge – trickle the balance in. And when you trickle a little too much in you get to dip some powder out and trickle it back in again. Then, after every 15 loads I check the zero. And if you accidentally bump/move the scale you get to check the zero again. PITA! Recently I bought the Lyman DPS. I haven’t used the RCBS, but I can tell you the Lyman works great. It is accurate, repeatable, easy to use and it store’s 100 loads in its memory. The only down side is it takes 30 minutes to warm up. But I turn it on first and by the time I have everything else out and organized the scale is just about ready to go. After its warm, I put on the calibration weight, and push a button to set zero. Then enter the load I need and it dispenses it. If the zero changes, it sounds an alarm. I check the zero every 10 loads “just because†- by pushing a button when the scale is empty. I’ve check the loads against the beam scale and the Lyman is consistently right on. I don’t know, maybe I’m just too lazy, but I'll never go back. Double AA | |||
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I've had 2 lymans and the new RCBS dispenser/combo. The lyman was a nice unit but mine gave funky readings if a cell phone was used nearby -really. The RCBS chargemaster is the way to go. It's fast accurate and easier to change powders in.......................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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Dillion will replace your dead scale under warranty.They replaced one a friend gave me. The old one sat in the closet 8 years because it never worked right. The new one works great and has for about 4 years. However I use it only to weigh brass and bullets. Powder is dispensed by an AMT Autoscale which is a pair of power tricklers with a built in balance beam. | |||
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I'm glad someone does. I hate my Lyman Dig. Scale. It seems like I have to calibrate for every other case. | |||
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I love mine too, but you have to play by the rules. Any breeze will upset it, it's very sensitive, air movement from a fan or furnace duct in the room will affect it. As does a cordless or cell phone used too close to it. If a powder kernel gets between the load cell and housing, it'll drive you crazy until it's removed. Learn how to use it and it works great! If I had it to do over again, I'd get the RCBS combo, but I got the Lyman new for less than $200 shipped, I'll stick with it, works for me. | |||
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I do not understand why anyone would use a digital scale. A digital scale is less reliable than a mechanical scale. The weight of powder in a reload is rather important so why not use the best available instrument for that? My background is in electronics and measurement circuits so my opinion is not based upon perception but rather reality. | |||
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If you had used a Denver Instruments Digital scale, you would not make that statement. Reliable, they are. Don | |||
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Had an OHaus scale and got rid of it...use RCBS and Dillon both digitals and would never go back unless to the big OHaus hypothecary type scale...that one was allright. | |||
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My original training is as an analytical chemist. Have used many very high end balances beyond the old but lovely triple beam. I have used a Lyman for more than 15 years with excellent repeatability and accuracy. It is a bit sensitive to air flow ... but all very sensitive weighing instruments are. I would not go back to the cheap beam balances sold to reloaders ... period. Mike -------------- DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ... Knifemaker, http://www.mstarling.com | |||
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...oh but I would! | |||
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Amen! I use a Tanita jewelers scale. I also have two RCBS digitals, which are pretty good. The jewlers scales are pretty accurate/precise. FWIW I also have the Harrel blow it out your ass top notch powder culver dispenser to short throw charges- it ain't that precise +/- up to .2gr- BULLSHIT!!! There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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It seems to me that many reloaders use powder scoops or throw the charges with powder dispensers and will jump up and down and shout that it makes no difference in accuracy. My RCBS Charge Master 1500 has been a sweet machine for me and is always dead on. Compared to the balance beam it is like going from a bicycle to a Porsche!  I won't go back.____________________________________ There are those who would misteach us that to stick in a rut is consistency - and a virtue, and that to climb out of the rut is inconsistency - and a vice. - Mark Twain | Chinese Proverb: When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others. ___________________________________ | |||
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Denver Instruments MXX-123. One kernel of Varget = .02 grains. A small piece of duck down, that you cannot even feel in the palm of your hand = .06 grains. It is accurate, repeatable, and not too expensive. It weighs to 1/50th of a grain. We shoot highpower and long-range Palma. Some 4-5000 rounds a year, and every single one is weighed. Wish the competition would just throw their powder charges, then winning would be much easier. | |||
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I have been using the RCBS big digital and like it. But, it has to warm up every time it is used and must be recalibrated at each weighing session. It is faster than a beam balance and probably as accurate. Dr.C At Home on the Range-Texas Panhandle | |||
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I am not talking about accuracy or convience. Those are nice to have's. I am talking about safety which is mandatory if your going to reload. The problem with an electronic scale is the electronics. Lets say you are running max loads and you are reloading on dry winter day. You do standard procedure of calibration before using. Now half way thru you standup, move around, sit back down and go back to work. Chances are you just produced ESD (electro-static discharge) which has the potential to affect, degrade, or destroy the electronics in your wonderful RCBS Charge Master 1500. Take styrofoam cup, rub it on a rug, move it around next to your digital scale and see if there is an affect. During summer months when the humidty is high there may or may not be affect. During winter months I'll bet you see something. ESD is one of many, many factors which can affect electronics. Ok, here is one for summer months. You are in middle of calibration and your wife turns on the microwave or she is in adjacent room and starts talking on here cell phone. Did the calibration succeed or did it introduce a little error due to electronic interference? Well if your running max loads,wouldn't you want to know? Now standard design procedure when designing electronics is to account for these kinds of things. But I got to tell you the list runs off into infinity and there will be some combination of events which will affect your beloved electronic scale. Are electronics scales convenient; Yes. Are electronics accurate; Yes Are electronics scales more reliable than a mechanical scale; No. | |||
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I got a Pact digital precision powder scale back in december and love it loud pipes save lives | |||
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Electronic scales are DANGEROUS !. I've seen several different brands screw up and the people who use them generally follow that pattern to . Like any quality Item one buys handled with care some are better than others but NONE of them beats a balance mechanical scale EVER !. Test them !. Fill a case with powder shake it down fill it level to the very top . Now weigh the charge ( Your choice of scale ), do this 3 times . Now check it against either Electronic or balance scale ( or the other scale you didn't use ) . One will vary the reading take a guess as to which one that's going to be !. Reloading vendors should be ashamed of them selfs for even offering the dam things for sale . Most are cheap Harbor Freight ( Chinese Junk ) Manufactured with anybody's name on it !!! ...  | |||
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The main thing we need with our scales is repetablity. If they are a hair off, say they read 45.3gr when the true wgt is 45.5gr it doesn`t really matter as long as it will give the same reading ever time you use it. The accuracy of one scale vs the other is also moot. The BR boys have found volume measurments work as well or better then wgt measurments. These guys shoot groups in the 0.1" level, and although their loads might be 0.2-0.3gr off from high to low charge, they all do fill the case exactly the same. Volume wise they are exact. The scales built today for reloading are accurate to 0.10gr and are more then enought accurate for any job we have. The best purchase a reloader can make is for a set of check weights. Set your scales up and check to see if it is reading right. If not look for a problem. If so, don`t worry over one half of a hundreth gr of powder. ------------------------------------ The trouble with the Internet is that it's replacing masturbation as a leisure activity. ~Patrick Murray "Why shouldn`t truth be stranger then fiction? Fiction after all has to make sense." (Samual Clemens) "Saepe errans, numquam dubitans --Frequently in error, never in doubt". | |||
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I guess that anything to do with reloading can be considered dangerous. But Digital Scales are no more dangerous than many of the tools we use. I had to pull some bullets because my RCBS balance beam scale got some dust collected where it shouldn't be and gave me some bad readings. -ANYTHING can screw up. Digital Scales are just like any other tool used in reloading - you have to think about what you are doing and make cross checks. I've used several of them and they are just as accurate as my balance beam was. Yes my Lyman did get funky when I used my cellphone next too it, but it was no more out of whack than when an airvent was blowing directly on my balance beam scale. Fortunately I was paying attention both times and was able to correct the problems. If you don't feel comfortable using a digital scale, fine don't use one. For a lot of us though they are fantastic conveniences that save a lot of time and hassle while reloading...............................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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I have a set of RCBS check weights that I keep next to my Chargmaster, I calibrate with each new use or on extended runs. I also put a check weight on the scale after every 10 charges and it usually weighs spot on. If you think .1 gr makes a difference in a load of 85 gr. of powder then you really are more precise and accurate than any of my rifles will be. If you shoot any discipline off hand or with minimum assistance then the shooter is the highest variable in the equasion, not .1gr. square shooter | |||
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You could have said .5 grains as well! Sometimes we reloaders get carried away with precision that gains us nothing measurable only to satisfy our personal needs for perfection! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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+1 When I first strated shooting benchrest competetively, no one weighed powder charges. All charges were thrown using a good measure, and the groups shot were excellent. A 0.1 difference in weight may be important in loading for a 22 Hornet, but not for anything else. And, for big game hunting cartridges, 0.5 doesn't make a difference. Don | |||
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Well, everyone has their own ideas, and standards. The big thing I have against digital is the two (RCBS) I had anything to do with didn't last long. Seemed very fragile. So, as seeing as a "good" measure seems to be all we need, why pay big money for a digital? Honestly, I'm ammazed how quick I can weigh brass into 3 lots, heavy med and light with a $20 no dampner redding beam. It's obvious if the case is too heavy or too light. But then if we are not going to worry about powder weight, why worry about brass weight? For my "accuracy" loads, the powder weight is the easist to get right, whereas it's probably the most dangerous to get wrong. But as for wandering scale accuracy, my good thrower will be a good indication of something not quite right. Same thing if I've set the powder measure wrong. Any decent scale will indicate a problem. If and when I dump straight into a case, a real good look at the level before seating the bullet does wonders for peace of mind. Still, it's half the fun to fiddle with a new gadget, I just can't decide what I need next.  | |||
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Must be your upside down electricity in Austrailia. My original 6-10yr old RCBS is still weighing along quite fine but it's stuck off in a corner since the new RCBS dispenser scale came along.I did have a Lyman go tit's up pretty quickly though...........................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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I have a RCBS Chargemaster Combo - it's fast and accurate, easy to use and calibrate. I started out with a balanced beam scale, but now I prefer color TV, sliced bread, indoor plumbing, air conditioning and.........digital scales.  | |||
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Yet another vote for the RCBS Chargemaster Combo! | |||
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Unless one is willing to shell out " BIG MONEY " !. For a precision instrument with a Solid black granite set up block and a dust cover over their electronic scale , in a clean room environment . They're ALL JUNK !. What is the principle component in the electronic scale ?. A Load sensor !. Repeatable accurate ones cost BIG money . That's why these 60 - $200.00 ones are JUNK !. They are not reliable in the least . Buy what you want . I've had several given to me I chuck em in a box !. See where yours are made !!!!!!!!!!!!!!... | |||
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I own a couple of them, the only one I had any problems whatsover with was the Lyman. My RCBS std. Scale and Chargemaster have been perfectly reliable. I have a couple sets of check weights and have used them religously to double check my electronic scales. The Chargemaster has a breeze cover that makes it less susceptable to wind currents than my old balance beam was. I also have a Cabela's portable model that has been perfectly reliable also. Dr. K. I don't know what bad experiences you may have had with electronic scales but my experience with a number of them is completely contrary to what you have said here...............................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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Dr. K is right on. The Digital scales sold by the companies supplying us reloaders are JUNK. They are slower than molasses in Alaska, and are inconsistent, not repeatable, in their readings. I had several different ones, and was unhappy with all of them. That's why I went to the Denver Instruments APX-153. It is repeatable, and as soon as you put a specimen on the scale's tray, the reading is there, instantly; no waiting around for the numbers to appear in the window. But, as I mentioned before, I don't use it for weighing powder in reloading. I use an old Ohaus for that. If you want to waste money, buy one of the ones sold by the loading outfits. Don | |||
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Whatever you do don't but a PACT digital scale and powder dispenser. In my opinion they are junk. No matter what I do I always get inconsistant weights that are .3 to .4 over what I want. It takes forever to calibrate the scale and you have to constantly rezero it while loading. The dispenser is way to slow. I can load much faster with a balance beam. However, if you just have to have one. I'll sell you the complete set up, scale and dispenser, both in new condition for $150 and I'll pay the shipping. | |||
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Every time the power goes off and battery gets weak the RCBS 10-10 just gets better and better. Mine has served me well and is like new still after a lot of years of use and no betteries to replace. | |||
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I had a Lyman 1200 and it worked well as far as accuracy went but, I thought it very slow. Swithced to the RCBS Combo and I like it very much. "I ask, sir, what is the Militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them" - George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment during the Virginia convention to ratify the Constitution | |||
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