I have been giving serious consideration to purchasing a semi-auto pistol. I just want something to handload for and to fire off a few rounds at the range while I wait on my rifle barrel to cool. I am thinking of something like a 9mm.

I don't want to spend a lot of cash because this would merely be a play project. I only own one other pistol...a Ruger Single Six. What can you recommend do a guy who doesn't know squat about what is available? How about Sig Arms used police handgun deals?

Hey BTH, I don't have a 9mm just because I prefer a 45ACP. But, the 9mm has one very nice feature, EL CHEAPO factory ammo is available.

Before you buy one, go to the Range and pick up a couple of hundred cases. It is not uncommon to run through a good bit of ammo when using a pistol or revolver. Once you understand what is involved in picking up the empties that your "Pistol" will be tossing about, then you may decide the EL CHEAPO factory surplus stuff looks pretty good.

But there is an even better alternative, just get another revolver which won't be tossing your cases on the ground. Double action or single action both have pluses and minuses. And if you choose to Reload, a 357Mag or a 44Mag make excellent revolvers to begin with. You can just follow the Loads in the Manuals and have light recoil Loads or full strength Bambi Blasters.

Once you decide if you want to go with a Pistol or a Revolver, go to a Gun Show and handle a bunch of different kinds. Some just seem to fit your hands better than other ones. And you need to be able to get a good comfortable grip on it if you ever intend to be able to hit anything.

I saw a young guy come to the Range with a Double-Stack ParaOrdinance pistol and he sure was proud until the first shot nearly ripped it from his hands. Just too BIG for his grip. Pitiful to watch him fight it. I feel sure it ruined him from enjoying any kind of pistol shooting.

For some reason, the old Single-Stack Government Model semiauto seems to hold my hand rather than me holding it. I guess it should though because I've shot them for a very long time. And try picking up "just" 45ACP cases too - still no fun.

Get a Synthetic Grip if you go with a Pistol or a Double Action Revolver. If you get a Single Acton Revolver, you might want to find some totally "smooth"(non-checkered) grips so the revolver can roll in your hands.

Don't waste money on a Rossi. They still make firearms you can not Dry Fire without breaking the Firing Pin - Pitiful. In fact, look through the Owners Manual of anything you are planning to buy and if it says "DO NOT DRY FIRE" then "DO NOT BUY IT".

Best of luck to you.

My advise is that you check the local gunshops for a good used revolver.

.38 Special is a good cartridge and there are alot of the used police guns in that caliber.

Nothing wrong w/ your idea but I agree w/ HC, you can buy cheap factory 9mm for less than you can load it. A used SIG226, if not too used, would be a great choice. The Ruger semiautos are inexpensive too & quality is good.

As stated, 9mm is too cheap to buy to be worth reloading for target practice. Unlike 45 Colt or 44 mag.

I handload 9mm for my own +P+ recipies, but I never re-use the brass after all that stress in the first firing.

I do pick up brass for my 40S&W pistol. It is a PITA, but I can load for half the cost of white box Winchester ammo...and load light for high volume shooting with less fatigue. With the 9mm, economy and fatigue are less of a concern.

45ACP is easyer to pick up (big) and I find the recoil less fatiguing as well...sort of a push instead of the snap/slap I get from 'modern' high pressure cartridges like 40S&W, 10mm, and .357Sig. Range pickups always has the chance (probability) of getting others brass, like the +p+ mentioned above, mixed in with your brass. I always know the history of reloaded brass in my pistols...others are less concerned...esp. the ACP shoters since it is a relatively low pressure cartridge.

For cheap, it is hard to beat the Ruger autopistols. They are cheap, clunky, but servicable and usually relliable. They are not finished to the same level as Ruger revolvers...more like Ruger rifles! Used Glock and Sig pistols are good choices, as they don't seem to wear out. My 40 is a police trade in Glock...well used (and well maintained!) and going strong for $400 with Trijicon night sights.

For playing while the big rifles cool, a good .22RF rifle is cheap fun too. My range doesn't allow pistols on the rifle firing line, so that reduces my options.

Have fun...what a tough dilemma...what gun to buy!

I have the luxury of belonging to a rifle range where most of the PDs do their shooting. We made a separate range for them. I go on Thursdays after they shoot and pick up all of the once fired 9mm and 40s&w I can use since they don't use reloads. Another option besides those for the guns listed above is the CZ75. Mine really fits my hand well and was not that expensive. The only bite was trying to find a holster until I figured out the Beretta 92 was a great fit.

Last month I picked up a S&W Model 15 in great shape at an auction for $150. Keeps me from shooting 38s in my GP100. I hate cleaning the crud from the cylinders.

Born to hunt,

Just a few short weeks ago I decided that I needed my first real handgun, for the same reasons you described.

I am now the proud owner of a new SS Ruger 7.5 inch Bisley Super Blackhawk Hunter in 41 mag.

I got the gun new from gun broker for $489 plus twenty bucks to a local shop for the transfer. It is a limited edition sold though Davidsons.

I have now put over 350 rounds through the weapon and could not be happier. I load a 170 Sierra over a light load of Unique for plinking which feels like shooting a 357. Or a 210 gr Hornady XTP over a stiff load of H110 which places the performance firmly into 44 mag territory.

I have found 210 gr copper plated bullets for 80 dollars a thousand and have 500 on the way as well as 500 more Winchester cases.

With these bullets and Unique I can reload used brass for about 12 dollars a hundred. That is almost as cheap as shooting a 9mm, and I never have to search for brass.

I also like this revolver because it comes with the integral Ruger scope bases and rings. I often remove the scope and shoot it for a while then replace the scope, which goes back to very close to zero.


This target was shot with the scope from sandbags at fifty yards and shows what the gun is capable of.





I know that a heavy revolver is not for everyone, but I sure do like this one.

I am starting to RL 45acp. I am going to try to keep enough loaded that I can keep up with my shooting habit. I figure on shooting 200 or so every other week. That gives me 2 weeks to take my time and do it right. We'll see how that goes and start adding more guns to reload next summer.

Hey Idaho Shooter, I sure do like that revolver. I've been considering one just like it, but in a 44Mag simply because I have everything to load it.

I've only used a scope on a revolver a few times and due to my lack of experience with them, was uncomfortable with the balance. I guess I've just shot handguns way too long without them.

You mentioned shooing it without the scope, how does it do that way? And most importently, how does that 41Mag do on Deer?

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills.

.44 mags can be shot using .44 special.
.357 mags can use .38 special.

but the .44 mag is a good close in deer "gettin" pistol.

Here's mine, Ruger Blackhawk, with Pachmayr grips.

BTH...

As mentioned above, there is no compelling reason to handload the 9MM, particularly if you just want something to casually shoot, as you indicate. Just chasing brass is enough of a pain to deter most folks, as it does me.

There is an abundance of cheap ammo readily available, as low as $5-6 per 50 ( Russian blasting ammo ) can be found on the internet. UMC offers a 250 rd. bulk pack for around $45, if you want a slight step up in quality.

If you want to combine a handgun with some handloading I would recommend a revolver. Lots of fun and much more flexibility in handloading...anything from mild plinking/target loads to full-house hunting loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Idaho Shooter, I sure do like that revolver. I've been considering one just like it, but in a 44Mag simply because I have everything to load it.

I've only used a scope on a revolver a few times and due to my lack of experience with them, was uncomfortable with the balance. I guess I've just shot handguns way too long without them.

You mentioned shooing it without the scope, how does it do that way? And most importently, how does that 41Mag do on Deer?

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills.

This is the first handgun I have ever owned, except for a Savage Stryker 17 HMR, but that is really just a short rifle with the Harris bipod installed.


The group in the previous post is 2.5 in from the sandbags at fifty yards, I am now making about five inches at fifty yards with the original sights and rested over a log, and about the same without a rest at twentyfive yards.

The gun has far more capability than I.

This revolver is so muzzle heavy with the 7.5 in barrel and full rib without the scope, that I really do not notice much difference in balance with the scope mounted. Compared to standard blackhawks that I have fired, the extra length of the bisley grip helps in this regard also.

I have never seen a deer killed with a handgun, but am sure that this one is quite cabable out to fifty yards. The Hornady 210 XTP is capable of the same energy level at fifty yards as the 30-30 at 150 yards using a 170 or 150 gr bullet; and nobody can argue that is not a proven deer killer.

I have seen some hard cast bullets available in 210 gr, 265 gr, and even over 300 gr weights. With these heavier bullets at maximum velocities from the 41 mag cartridge, it is not shamed by the 44 mag. But I am nowhere near the skill level required to shoot these heavier loads yet. I still find the 210 at 1400 fps quite a hand full. The 170 at 1350 is much more pleasant to shoot, but suffers in the accuracy dept. Those much more experienced than I with this subject suggest that I need to switch to H110 with the 170 and bump up the speed to cure the accuracy issue.

Hey IS, I worked with a guy in the late `70s and early `80s that killed a lot of Deer with a 41Mag. He was always telling me he liked it better than his 44Mag and he could certainly shoot it.

quote:

But I am nowhere near the skill level required to shoot these heavier loads yet.

It takes a whole lot of Trigger Time for me to "maintain" any skill level with these revolvers. It would take a lot of time for me to regain any credability with one.

It seems to take a lot more effort to keep my concentration level at a peak today than it used to.

Anyway, those are some fine looking firearms. I'm sure the 41Mag will serve you well.

This pistol with Parker Hale bull barrel mod shoots 2.1 to 2.4" groups, but the cross hairs are jumping around that much. I need to add a buttstock.



My shpeal:
I got an RCBS Rockchucker kit and an RCBS Video, because I was overwhelmed with how to get started reloading.

If I were to advise someone on how to do it that was a friend, I would show him how, and then loan him enough stuff to do it at his home.

Telling someone how to do it on the internet, I would start out with the tasks that have to be done, and list the cheap tools to get, so the the guy can maintain a mental map of the goals:

38 Special [same die set and shell holder as 357 mag] is very easy and cheap to load, most people have one, and the guns have mountains of safety margin. They are a good place to start.

1) Get the old primer out of the case, called depriming or decapping.
2) Make the case small enough in inside diameter to grip a bullet and small enough on the outside to fit in the chamber. This is called resizing.
Both steps 1) & 2) are usually accomplished in one step as the resizing die has a decapping pin. This will require:
a) Shell holder ~$3 Lee #1 shell holder or ~$5 RCBS #6 shell holder.
The same size shell holder can be used later for 357 mag, 256 Win mag, etc.
b) A resizing die. This die will probably be bought in a kit with one, two, or three other dies. In straight wall cartridges, carbide resizing dies are available at an extra cost. It is always worth the extra to get carbide. Adjust the die [how far to screw it into the press] per the instructions that come with the die set.
Lee 3 die set for 38 special; $21 steel, $23 carbide
RCBS 3 die set for 38 special: $36
c) A press. Lee Reloader press $20 is a real cheapee, but will always find a use. RCBS Rockchucker $90 is a workhorse of the highest quality.
3) Clean the case. This step can be done with a couple twists of the wrist with steel wool, or expensive vibrators. Later when you get more tools, you will clean the primer pocket, but it is not needed.
4) Re prime the case.
a) One can buy a priming tool and do it in 2 seconds or fumble with the primer built into RCBS presses and do it 10 seconds.
Lee Auto prime II $13, RCBS priming tool $26
The two tools I mentioned use the same shell holder as used above in resizing. Beware that Lee also sells another priming system ["Lee auto prime" not "Lee auto primer II"] that uses special shell holders. I would avoid that system to start.
b) One must also buy, beg, borrow, or steal new primers.
To buy them mail order, one would have to pay a Hazardous Materials charge [Haz Mat]. Small purchases would be too expensive. Usually 100 primers can be purchased for $1 or $2 at the local gun store. Primers come in combinations of being; magnum or standard, pistol or rifle, and large or small. For 38 special, small pistol primers are what is needed, and will work with standard or magnum, but most published loads with be with standard primers.
5) Fill the case with powder. This is called charging the case. For this one will need powder and a way to measure powder. With black powder, one just fills the case, but with smokeless powder too much powder will fit. Start out using smokeless powder and measuring it. The amount to use depends on the bullet that will be used. The amount is published in load books, or better still on powder manufacturer's web sites for free.
a) Buy powder. There is the Haz Mat problem again, so off to the neighborhood gunstore. Any "pistol powder" will do. Expect to pay ~$20 for a pound in a gunstore. I like Bullseye or Unique powder made by Alliant, but AA#2 or AA#5 work just as well made by Accurate Arms, or Winchester 231, or Hodgdon HS-6, or Vihtavuori 3N37, or IMR SR7625, or dozens of others.
b) Measure the powder. This can be done with cheap plastic measuring cups with handles from Lee, but I would start out weighing the powder. The weighing scales: Lee Perfect powder measure $20, RCBS Uniflow Powder measure $60 [this tool is really nice]
6) Install the bullet. This is called seating the bullet.
a) Buy bullets. For 38 special, .357" diameter or .358" bullets are normally used. You can buy lead bullets or lead bullets covered with copper called jacketed bullets. I would start out with jacketed bullets. These will cost you 5 to 15 cents each and usually bought in 100's.
b) The seating die should have come in the reloading die kit. Put it in the press and put the primed and charged case in the shell holder. Set the bullet on top of the case and raise the ram [push down on the press lever]
c) Measure the over all length of the cartridge [OAL]. This can be done with a ruler, but is best done with dial calipers. Expect to pay $20 for some Chinese calipers or $100 for American.
7) Crimp the case into the bullet. This means the case must pinch the bullet so hard that recoil will not yank the bullet out when other chambers of the revolver are fired [or so the bullet will not get shoved deeper into the case from recoil in magazine or tube fed cartridge]. The type of crimp depends on the type of cartridge. The rimmed 38 special case should be roll crimped. The rimless 9mm cartridge should be taper crimped. The crimping step can be done in one step with the bullet seating, but I would start out doing it in two separate steps. The two steps look the same [cartridge goes into seating die], but can be different in how the seating die is adjusted. Again, adjust the die [how far to screw it into the press] per the instructions that come with the die set and with the seating die, there is also the adjustment of the seating stem [knurled knob on top of the die].
8) Take notes when you shoot your handloads. Write on the targets. Things like "125 gr. bullets shot way low, but 158 gr. bullets were right on." will come in handy next time you sit down to reload or buy bullets.

>From the above it looks like it will cost $110 to get started.
That is 1/3 of what it cost ME to get started.

There are more steps to loading a bottle shaped rifle cartridge, and even more to get them to be very accurate, but after one masters the 38 special, it will make more sense.

Hey tnekkcc, Surely you have a name for that Hog Leg. What do you call it?

Do you only shoot it from the Bench and Prone?

What kind of scope?

Do you have a holster for it?

Quite an interesting rig.