Oopsy!! I loaded some prepped 7 x 57 cases with 250 Magnum large rifle primers. Are these too hot for this application and if so what's the best technique for extracting them if I need to switch to 200?

Depends on the powder and charge weight. The only way to "extract" them without firing them, is to pull the bullets, dump the powder, decap, andd reprime.

What's your load? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
What's your load? roger

42 grains of IMR 4350 in never fired cases with 160 grain Barnes TSX.

The whole story is I'm new to reloading. All my other rifles are Magnums. This Ruger Model 77 Tang Safety rifle I bought for my wife.

I have the Mother load of CCI 250 primers I got in a garage sale with a bunch of other reloading gear. I have no CCI 200 primers, although I will switch and buy them if that is suggested here.

I loaded five rounds each of 40, 40.5, 41, 41.5, and 42 grains. The rifle really liked the 42 grain load shooting less than MOA, while the other loads were not as consistent.

The cases all seem fine and the primers are not flattened that I can tell.

The Barnes manual calls 43.5 the max load.

I chrono'd four of the five 42 grain loads and got 2247, 2219, 2226, 2233 all slightly under five round of factory federal 175 softnose which came out at 2296, 2286, 2302, 2305, 2312.

So what's the thought? I have 25 more never fired cases I have already primed with the 250's. But have not charged with powder.

Should I just decap them with the sizing die (and is that safe) and bite the bullet (bad pun) starting over with the CCI 200's I will have to buy? Or is it safe to load the 25 I have primed to 42 grains and recheck the accuracy?

Will I have a problem down the road reloading the same cases?

This my wife's gun and I sure don't want her hurt.

What's the verdict?

Thanks
Jim

Unless I'm missing something, what you described seems to present no problem that I can identify. You have tested the loads, which gave no indication of a problem. The rifle shoots accurately with 42grs, according to your tests. Consulting the Barnes manual was the right thing. Stay within their minimum and maximum loads, regardless of primer.

Seems to me like maybe you don't actually need to switch to #200 primers. Just use the #250. I can't see how this will have any affect on your ability to use the brass again. I don't see how the #250 primer itself can cause you a problem with that powder charge. The problem will arise if you use too much powder, and it won't matter much whether it's a 200 or 250 primer.

Just an opinion. Of course you and your wife shoot your reloads at your own risk. You asked for an opinion, but I ain't gonna say it's safe. Would I shoot such loads as you described? yes.

KB

Thanks for the opinion.

Anyone else want to weigh in

i would agree with kabluewy if the load has been worked up properly as it appears you did. i do not see a reason to change them.

on the other hand if you are the type that just won't be able to sleep unless you have the exact primers. i would suggest purchasing something like a lee universal decapping die. it's about $10 and is well worth it. you can decap the brass without having to resize it. while your at it go ahead and pick up the univerasl expander die. neither will probably be used alot but they are invaluable when you do need them. good luck

From my experience the difference between magnum primers and standard primers with the slow burners is very little if anything provided you are not working at absolute maximum loadings which you aren't so I would continue to use the load you have found to be a good one, with the CCI250s.

You can decap live primers if done carefully and slowly i.e. not ramming the case up into the sizing die/decapper. Wear safety glasses and keep the bench free of any other primers or powder just in case you do have one go off. I have done hundreds without a problem and in fact catch and reuse the primers again for target practice loads (never experienced a misfire with reused primers).

There is no absolute correlation in increased pressure when substituting "magnum" for "standard" primers. In fact, sometimes pressures decrease when a "magnum" primer is used, at least if muzzle velocity is used as a guage of pressure.

Your loads are very mild to begin with. There is no safety to be gained by changing primers.

Thanks to everyone for the opinions.

I think I will go ahead and load my remaining magnum primed cases with the 42 grain load and see if the accuracy is duplicated and if it is I will stick with this for the load. If not I will pick up some 200 primers and start over.

Thanks for everything!!

In my 30/06 I prefere to use magnum primers when using IMR4350. Slightly larger case but still not a magnum.

Hart

quote:

42 grains of IMR 4350 in never fired cases with 160 grain Barnes TSX.
I chrono'd four of the five 42 grain loads and got 2247, 2219, 2226, 2233.

Frostbit,

My observation is that the average velocity attained of 2,231 fps with a 160 gr bullet is rather low. I also load 160 gr TSX bullets and run on average 2,480 fps with no signs of pressure. I use Somchem S365 powder, which is the equivalent of IMR4350.

I suspect that you have a loose chamber and/or barrel, and that is why you are not getting advertised velocities. With your 'lower' velocity, your pressure will also be lower and no where near a level that will cause you concern.

For more velocity, you should perhaps consider another powder.

Warrior

I agree with Warrior.
Velocity is quite low for a 160gn bullet. I get 2700fps with a 160 gn Woodleigh and 46gn H4350 and this is an easy load in my rifle with a 25 in barrel.

Von Gruff.

Personally I'd say you are safe to go.Where you are at, if the pressure were to go up it would not reach any danger zone. Just my humble learned opinion. roger

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
I use Somchem S365 powder, which is the equivalent of IMR4350.


Warrior

How many grains of powder?

I use 40 grains of S365.
Whilst we equate our powder with other brands that appear to be similar, there are other differences beneath the surface.


The densities of S365 and IMR4350 are very similar, so load densities in terms of case-fill should be the same:
S365 = 1.60 g/cubic cm
IMR4350 = 1.59 g/cubic cm

According to QuickLoad, the 'Heat od Expltion' factor (H.O.E.) differ:

Brand of Powder ------------- S365 -------- IMR4350
Heat of Explotion ----------- 3685 Kj/Kg -- 3900 Kj/Kg
Ratio of Specific Heats ----- 1.2390 ------ 1.2430
Burning rate factor --------- 0.4400 ------ 0.4801
Pro or Degressivity factor -- 0.6050 ------ 1.6047

I am not able to tell how it pans out on an aggregate basis, considering all the above factors.

For these reasons I would be loath to allude that the same amount of powder in the one is equal to the other.

Warrior

I'd load 'em up and shoot 'em.
What you've done inadvertantly is something that many reloaders do when working up a load: trying different primers.

I double checked your data with the barnes manual and I think you'll be just fine. barnes, like every other manual for reloads has to stay within the limits set by SAAMI for a particular cartridge. In theory, loads for the 7x57 are usually kept at the 45,000 PSI level although some manuals for for a 50,000 PSI level considered safe in MODERN rifles. In theory, you could load those 7x57 caswes to 60,000 PSI and be perfectly OK in your rifle. The Rugers are tough. The point is, there is no reason you can't load to the same pressures as say a .270 Win. period. Just getting proper data is the problem. I won't say what I load my 7x57 to with W-760 but let's just sat a 140 gr. Ballistic Tip does 2800 FPS quite nicely from a Winchester M70 Featherweight with great accuracy, The same load though is too hot for a custom Mauser in 7x57. I think you'll be just fine with that load.
Paul B.

IMHO if you've worked up a good load using the Magnum primers and it appears to be safe plus you use Magnum primers for all your other reloading I'd suggest that you stay with them for all your future load development then you won't have this problem again.

But that's must me.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
I double checked your data with the barnes manual and I think you'll be just fine. barnes, like every other manual for reloads has to stay within the limits set by SAAMI for a particular cartridge. In theory, loads for the 7x57 are usually kept at the 45,000 PSI level although some manuals for for a 50,000 PSI level considered safe in MODERN rifles. In theory, you could load those 7x57 caswes to 60,000 PSI and be perfectly OK in your rifle. The Rugers are tough. The point is, there is no reason you can't load to the same pressures as say a .270 Win. period. Just getting proper data is the problem. I won't say what I load my 7x57 to with W-760 but let's just sat a 140 gr. Ballistic Tip does 2800 FPS quite nicely from a Winchester M70 Featherweight with great accuracy, The same load though is too hot for a custom Mauser in 7x57. I think you'll be just fine with that load.
Paul B.

I may try 42.5 and 43 and check their speed and accuracy. I suppose as long as the primers don't flatten or the cases don't show any pressure signs it should be fine. I've got 15 empty cases already primed so I'll give it a shot.

You may want to try rigging up your rifle to some sort of rest and firing two or three rounds using a string or some sort of remote mechanism.

The fired cases will give you a reasonable indication of how safe your load is for your particular rifle.

There's nothing unsafe about using those primers in that load. Out of all the potential hazards in reloading, swapping a magnum primer for a standard one is probably of the least concern. Judging by your velocities and powder charge you've got a very mild load, it wouldn't worry me at all.

I have loaded several thousand 7x57 rounds since 1968, using only one primer, the one I started handloading with, the CCI 250. I use it, the Fed. 215 and the WW magnum primer for 99% of my reloading and seldom even think of using anything else.

Try WW-760 in that rifle and see if you can get to 2500-2600 fps-mv. at least. Your current load is about as powerful as a .30-30 and not really representative of what the old &x57 can do.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
There is no absolute correlation in increased pressure when substituting "magnum" for "standard" primers. In fact, sometimes pressures decrease when a "magnum" primer is used, at least if muzzle velocity is used as a guage of pressure.

Your loads are very mild to begin with. There is no safety to be gained by changing primers.

I agree completly with all of the above.

I too have actualy seen a decrease in MV when switching to a Magnum primer.

As an aside I see you post from Alaska. A magnum primer will give you better powder ignition in colder weather which you surely get. I think you're fine where you are at, but you can try work your load up in very small increments observing all changes. You could also try some different powders as suggested if you wish.

Thanks to everyone for the tips. I'll post an update on developments.

I'd say try them as only your rifle will tell. I have a Sauer 202 with bbls. in 7x64 and .30-06 and use the same (slow) N160 powder in both calibers.
In 7x64, with std. WLR primers, I get vertically elongated groups at 100 m ; with the CCI 250, groups are round and .5 MOA (5 shots). Same rifle in .30-06, no difference between primers : WLR and CCI250 shoot in the same hole.
Go figure...