Had an interesting experience this weekend, first time ever for me to recover a bullet that was in a whitetail I had shot. This was a VERY large whitetail for Georgia, 200+ lbs. Field dressed. Here's the other details.

Shot distance 75-80 yards.

.270 Winchester Combined Technology Ballistic Tip

Velocity at 15 feet from muzzle 3000 fps

Estimated impact velocity (?) 2850

Shot was quartering away, entered about third rib from backside, and bullet was found lodged on the off side just unter the hide. Exit point would have been just behind right shoulder.

Recovered bullet weight 72.0 grains

The deer went down at impact, rolled around for a couple of seconds, jumped back to his feet and ran about 30 yards, piled up, jumped back up, right back down, and then thrashed for about 2 more seconds, then all quiet. The entry wound was typical in my experience with BT's, very small, and just a little blood. I don't think this is a blowing up bullet, but I'm interested in folks thoughts. When dressing and quartering the deer, it was difficult to assess, but it looked as if the bullet may have hit a rib going in. The bullet did exit the rib cage on the off side, and the exit area there was about the size of a baseball.

I've had some interesting bullet performance this year, a couple of XXX's ice picking, at semi short ranges (130 & 170 yards) and 3 deer dropping at various ranges with the ballistic tip, plus the deer described just now. I've been toting rifles setup for these bullets, but I think I'm going to run some rigs that I have setup with Accubonds, plus I'm developing a load for one rifle with the new 130gr AB.

I'm a whitetail nut, and I always think what I could do better to insure clean quick kills.

This buck I just shot was in a real thick river bottom area, and I have been considering setting up one of my rigs to shoot really heavy bullets for caliber (i.e 150 or 160 for my .270's) since shots are rarely over 150 yards, and usually under 100, but over 50 at least. Any thoughts on that? I seem to have found that lighter bullets at long range, and heavier for short range work for me, I don't know if that is logical or not, I've noticed a lot of long range target shooters shoot heavier projectiles at range, but I figured that was for wind bucking abilities.....

I may post a pic of the bullet later...can't find where my wife put my camera!

Where you're max shot is 150 yards, I'd be using the heavier bullet as trajectory just isn't an issue at all.

I really want an exit hole and got them on two of the three bucks I shot this year.

I used a 30-06 with 150 SSTs and found one bullet in the rear ham of a deer that was quartering toward me.

That SST was a perfect mushroom BTW.....I used the SSTs only because I had them.....

Again the other two deer I shot were pass thrus and they dropped DRT!!!

For your 270 try the Hornady interlock 150 grain bullet if passthru is your desire. Even the Nosler 160 grain partition wouldn't be a bad choice.....especially for the really big ones like you got this year.

Mine dressed about 150 or so...

I'm not a NBT fan to start with but I see little advantage to the lighter NBTs under 300yds. Move up to a 150gr, I'll bet you get exists from just about any angle.

Vapo and Fredj, good intel. I have some 150 ballistic tips, and I think I'll dial them in for my rig I use in those zones where the shots will likely be close. I have some 140 grain Sierra Game King Hollow points I've been contemplating as well....and of course I know there's a box of 150 or 160 grain partitions somewhere in the shop.......

Fish30114: I am a big fan of the 130 gr. 27 caliber Ballistic Tips!
I always aim for the heart when I am shooting Deer. I have harvested quite a number of them now over the last 48 seasons.
Normally a heart/lung shot Deer will jump up kicking its rear heels out and up, at the instant of impact.
Then they land and run 50 to 100 yards before piling up.
I could not get the video to work for me but will keep trying.
back to the wonderful 27 caliber 130 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips - I am a firm believer in the lethality, reliability and accuracy of these bullets (the Nosler 130 gr. Ballistic Tips) from my 270 Winchester!
I have used them for some time now on all manner of Deer and Antelope with EXCELLENT results!
I am not familiar with your factory loaded Winchester "Combined Technologies" Ballistic Tips but it sounds like your Deer was harvested pretty cleanly. I recovered a 27 caliber 130 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet from a Bull Elk I shot this fall. I put it safely in my pocket and unfortunately that was the last I saw of it.
I have recovered other 130 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips from Antelope, Whitetails and Mule Deer and 72 grs. is about what I have experienced.
I am not sure you will find a better more reliable killer of a bullet than the Nosler 130 gr. Ballistic Tip for Deer size game.
I guess I am suggesting you handload some 130 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips or buy ammo that uses these - if in fact the Winchesters you use are not equipped with the Nosler Ballistic Tips.
Best of luck with your 270 its a fine Deer cartridge.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have never recovered a bullet since I began hunting big game about 9 years ago. I know this is a very limited field of experience but I will share some thoughts.

I beleave all cup and core type bullets have a chance to not exit an animal if any number of things happen.

Using my mother as an example. She has killed two deer in the past few years where the bullet did not exit the animal. One was on a huge bodied 6 point that went 212 live wieght. She shoots a 308 Winchester with 150gr fatory Remington Core-locks. The core-lock did the same sort of thing your BT did hit the a rib going in and blew up the off-side and was found under the hide. She also shot a big spike wieghting 150 pounds. She killed this deer with a shot that was a very angled with the deer walking away from her. The bullet entered the ham missing the bone, entered the chest right behind the last rib, and took out the liver and lung on the same side. Lodging in between the rib cage and the shoulder. Doing very little damage to the rib cage and none to the shoulder.

The raking shot is very easy to explain why the bullet did not exit. Having lost most if not all of its energy in the first 15 to 20 inches of travel through the ham and liver and lung. The other is a little bit harder to explain. Having seen the same load completly pass-trough deer of simalur size with the same shot I would have to say it was maybe a difference in the bullets. Even being the same bullet, I am sure that even with the best tecnology that every bullet can not be made the same. Small differences in lead hardness, velocity, or jacket thickness could all have contributed to the way the regular bullet reacts to a game animal. I made a simalar shot to my mothers raking shot and completly penatrated the deer. Entering the right ham of the deer and exited out of the left shoulder. I was also using the 150 gr. core lock. Mine was shot from a 30/06 I am thinking maybe I had about 100 fps more than my mothers 308.

If You are looking for complete penitration on every shot from every angle. I would suggest using a bullet of very tough construction. Barnes Triple X, I have not used any of the new bonded core bullets, but I am sure you would see a much more reliable exit using these bullets.

Not that having an exit wound is going to give you blood to follow. I shot a doe this year with the 30/06 punching holes in both sides, and did not find any blood till I found the deer about 30 yards from where she was shot. I hit both lungs and cliped the back of the heart.

Your next shot with the combined Tech bullets might give you a complete pass-through. Keep shooting and good luck. LLB

Fish, Regarding a possible dedicated "short range" load, you might consided a 150 gr Round Nose bullet in your 270. Some years ago, I developed a reduced recoil load in case one of my kids wanted to use my 270 Win and deer hunt w/ me. The load used a 150 gr Hornady RN @ 2450 fps muzzle velocity. 3 years ago my son killed the only deer that's been shot w/ that load/gun. It was a small buck at 50 yds, quartering to us. Deer only ran about 75 yards and left the BIGGEST blood trail I've ever personally seen. As far as the performance of your CT BT bullet, sounds like it did pretty well given the circumstances. Gary T.

fish30114:I load a 270 win 130gr nosler ballistic silvertip for a friend. It is a very good round for deer hunting. He has not had any trouble takeing deer with it. I wouldnt go to a heaver bullets. Id stay with the 130gr.I shoot 120 gr out of my 7MM stw and my dad shoots 125gr noslers out of his 30/06. Over the years i have not seen a reason y to use a big bullet on deer size game. (anything under 250-300 yard's i use smaller bullets.Anything over that id use a bigger bullet) I or my dad have not had a deer run off yet. I have a friend that shoots a 300 rem ultra mag with 168gr. My 120gr exit more than his heaver 168gr does. Just my thoughts

I switched from 130 SGKs to the heavier 150 SGKs in my 270 5 years ago and have gotten two holes in whitetails ever since.

First of all 55% weight retention absolutely SUCKS.

I wouldn't ever use any bullet with that percentage again and I'd throw away any of the remaining POS or use them for fouling shots! And yes, the bullet did in fact "blow up." Where did the other 45% go? It hit a rib and blew up.

What you hit determines what happens to the deer. If you don't hit bone going in/out you'll have a small exit (ice pick) hole regardless of the bullet (construction) used. Scirroccos once did that (I actually shot a deer twice both double lungs, just stood there and keeled over after 20 secs)-don't use them any more b/c of poor accuracy.

Clean kills depend purely on luck- what you hit. 5 perfectly placed shots can have 5 different results depending on if you hit bone, one lung, two lungs, two lungs & heart, spinal cord etc.

I used to believe in wanting a bullet to not exit and deposit all it's energy w/in the animal. I am now of the opposite camp, and was dead wrong and want an exit- I want a blood trail. I'd rather track a deer a longer distance (blood trail) rather than not find a deer that in deed died, but couldn't find.

The 130gr 270win is the perfect deer caliber.

I don't understand your thought process for long range lighter/heavy for short. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If you reload and can get a heavier bullet the same vel as a lighter one, the heavier bullet will shoot flatter (more momentum)and have better terminal ballistics.

If you're worried about short range performance GET A BETTER BULLET: 55% weight retention sucks, it's the bullet, not the weight.

FWIW I shot a 214# deer head on at 70 yards (130gr TSX 3000fps) and recovered it in the rear ham. I also shot a 187# deer broadside at 90 yards (same bullet) and had a hellacious exit wound as I hit a rib going in/out. I recovered the first bullet, still weighed 130gr, didn't recover the second.

Get a better constructed bullet and load 140s to 3000fps. That is all you'll need for long/short range deer hunting.

I've used NBTs for decades - they work very well on North American big game, including deer, antelope, elk, and caribou. And, I wouldn't hesitate to use a 180 gr NBT (or bigger) on moose. Everytime, I've hit these animals in the boiler room, they die almost always instantly and in their tracks. I don't like tracking wounded animals. These bullets are built just about right for the vast majority of North American big game. If I were to hunt Africa for dangerous game or Grizzly bear, I'd use the 300 gr. Nosler partition in .375 RUM. Nosler makes a great line of bullets, which are also very accurate and reasonably priced.

And speaking of failures......

Hornaday Interlok 140 gr......jacket

The ballistic tips are very violent in their expansion but lots of time they don't leave and exit. It is dependant on where you hunt and how you hunt. If you hunt in open territroy where you can see where a shot animal runs a blood trail is not very important but in very thick brush a good exit hole will at least double your chances of finding a deer. I've had good luck with the 150 grain hornadys making exit holes and killing deer very quickly

Guys, thanks for the additional feedback. This weekend the projectile I used ran about 430 grains all up, Carbon arrow with a 100 grain broadhead, full penetration, deer went about 40 yard and good night, great blood trail!

FMC, I appreciate the intel, as I said I haven't recovered any bullets from game, and I really haven't any insight as to what kind of weight retention you should want/need.. I've heard a lot of theories. I also wondered about the heavier bullet at longer distance thing, I don't think I'll get to 3000 feet plus with a 140 gr--maybe, but I was after the flatter trajectory with the 130's at range, that is why I was thinking heavier closer, trajectory not being that much of a thought......

Gary T, I actually like the round nose theory, I've got a BLR in .270, and I ordered some Rem Core-loc's in round nose at 150, just sounds right for that rig.....

I hunt all kinds of areas, and as in the case of this bullet, it was in a thick river bottom area, and I really want an exit and as good a chance as possible at a blood trail in this situation. I figure this bullet shed a lot of shrapnel into the deer, I'm not sure what kind of weight a BT is supposed to keep, but I think it was VG who said this was kind of the zone he had found succesful BT kills that he recovered the bullet from had retained.

I have several rigs that shoot the XXX well, but I'm thinking like Ray Sendero's experience seems to say, the 150 grain might just be the ticket....it's fun to think all this through, we're lucky to have so many good bullets to choose from.

I've used 150 gr. speer's for as long as I can remember. Short or long range I always get the same results, one dead deer.

FMC: Your "purely luck" theory of bullet lethality is pure crap!
I have used the wonderful 27 caliber 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips on Elk, Mule Deer, Whitetailed Deer and Antelope for several seasons now.
My "pure luck" is running 100% kills now on 7 Antelope, 6 Mule Deer, 2 Whitetailed Deer and 1 Elk (normally I use a different caliber Rifle when strictly Hunting Elk - an opportunity came up this year that mandated I use the 270 and the wonderful 130 gr Ballistic Tips on that 6x6!).
A 27 caliber 130 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip through the heart/lungs will render Deer dead - quickly and humanely!
PERIOD!
Your post is somewhat ambiguous as to your experience with the Nosler 130 gr. Ballistic Tips but I in fact heartily endorse them based on MY experiences, and my first hand observations - not some rumor or flawed formula of weight retainment!
Speaking of ambiguous - make it clear to us how the bullet you pictured, failed?
You might review Ackley Improved User's posting - you might learn something!
And then take unbiased note, of my experiences, with this latest Rifle and caliber I have been using. In conjunction with the wonderful and wonderfully accurate Nosler Ballistic Tip line!
Who says a bullet has to retain "X" amount of its original weight in one piece to kill Deer and Antelope quickly and humanely?
The creatures I have shot with Nosler Ballistic Tips have all been harvested quickly and humanely.
I have shot Game (with my 270 and the Nosler Ballistic Tips) at distances from 75 yards to 505 yards! Results being, just wonderful! Quick and humane kills!
Bullet weight retention does not enter into - nor does it NEED to enter into - that equation!
Splendid accuracy (shot placement) and lots of tissue damage to the heart/lungs - REGARDLESS of whether a rib was hit or not - IS what matters! And is provided by the 27 caliber 130 grain Nosler Ballistci Tips.
I completely find without ANY merit your ridiculous statement that "clean kills depend purely on luck - what you hit"!
Again that contention is specious (without merit!) blather! You send your 27 caliber projectile through the heart/lungs area and you will have a soon dead Deer size game animal!
I base that on 48 years of Hunting Deer and Deer sized game!
I use my 27 caliber Nosler Ballistic Tips for long range Whitetail Hunting with complete confidence - the Whitetails I Hunt are most always within a few bounds of dog's hair like willows.
Haven't lost one yet!
Your post intimates your displeasure with the pictured bullet - I assume you took that "poor performing" bullet from the carcass of a dead game animal???
How dead IS dead, then?
If THAT bullet travelled through the heart/lungs area of a Deer - I know it was rendered dead!
As opposed to you somehow running alongside a wounded game animal and performing an operation on said running animal to retrieve that "failed bullet" - sheesh man the creature was killt, wasn't it?
I would appreciate you clarifying that for me so I can make futher observations regarding the ridiculousness of your posting.
Thanks in advance.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

For your 270 try the Hornady interlock 150 grain bullet if passthru is your desire.

I used to think that as well. The 150 Interlock is very accurate in most of the rifles I've tried it in. However, I'm sort of second guessing that bullet here in the past couple of years. The reason being that I loaded several boxes for a friend whose rifle loved the 150ILs(57 grns H4831). Since then he's shot several whitetails w/ those loads and to my surprise almost every one has failed to exit. I was very surprised as I get complete pentration W/ 130 NBTs as much faster velocity. Most of the shots were broad side and several hit shoulders but he said they are almost always just under the hide on the off side. Maybe that was a soft lot I loaded for him?

I think I'll stick w/ 130 NBTs.

Good Luck

Reloader

About 15 years ago, I was asked by a friend to "test" some 150-grain NBTs in my '06. (He had shot lungs with them with excellent results, but it was always "little hole in and little hole out, insides turned to mush", as he put it. He wanted me to shoot something in the head to see how the bullet would expand.) So I took them to the TX hill country, and staggeered the magazine with NBTs followed by 150-grain Hornady ILs...

The second afternoon, on the way to the stand, we jumped a pair of pigs. I shot one of them in the head with the NBT and it stumbled, but kept running. The second shot tumbled the pig. When I got to the animal, I looked at the entrance holes. Both were in the head, about an inch apart. The NBT penciled through, and the Hornady opened up the back side of the pig's head.

Later that evening I shot a doe in the head at about 60 yards. I have never seen such a mess: skull cap completely blown off, eyes blown out of the sockets, and brain matter completely gone. Humane? Yes. Overkill? I think so. Even an animal deserves some dignity in death, and that deer was no different.

Those are the last NBTs I will ever shoot. They were too unpredictable, and opened entirely too violently for me when they DID decide to open up.

If you can't see an obvious case of jacket-core separation, it ain't worth attempting any semblance of semi-intelligent conversation.

My father in law killed that deer, took him two shots.

P.S. Oh yeah....you're right and I'm wrong. Good bye.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
...Later that evening I shot a doe in the head at about 60 yards. I have never seen such a mess: skull cap completely blown off, eyes blown out of the sockets, and brain matter completely gone. Humane? Yes. Overkill? I think so. Even an animal deserves some dignity in death, ...

You could always "Snuff" them or use one of Seafires down-loaded 22Hornet Deer Load recommendations.

Best of luck on the Head Shots(with no visible damage )

"If you can't see an obvious case of jacket-core separation, it ain't worth attempting any semblance of semi-intelligent conversation."

I agree wholeheartedly, FMC...

Hot Core, sometimes your failure to understand is beyond me... I shot other deer in the head years ago with conventional bullets. The animals were dispatched immediately, but there was some semblance of humanity in the carcass. By that I meant the animal's head was still reasonably intact, without looking like the deer had eaten a hand grenade.

And FWIW, I don't do head shots anymore. I decided a miscalculation was sure to mean a cruel and prolonged death by starvation or dehydration, neither of which I find particularly appealing to something as majestic as a deer.

Finally, as to your smart remark about Seafire's reduced .22 Hornet load recommendations, no, thanks. I have developed my own.

You are quite the pompous sort, aren't you?

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
...You are quite the pompous sort, aren't you?

Hey Doubtless, If by that you mean I enjoy laughing at the fools and their totally moronic posts such as - Head Shots which retain the pristine and untouched "dignified" look - then you would be correct.


---

quote:

nd FWIW, I don't do head shots anymore. I decided a miscalculation was sure to mean a cruel and prolonged death by starvation or dehydration, neither of which I find particularly appealing to something as majestic as a deer.

Always nice to be able to agree with someone. I agree Head Shots have the potential to do just that. Good for you.

Nosler Ballistic Tips have never really been my favorite, but .270 Win caliber sure is ( in a rifle). But, this year I have been handloading .270 Win. Nosler B.T., and 7 deer have been killed with 7 shots, dropped in their tracks, so I have nothing bad to say about them. All went all the way through, with good exit holes. Can't ask for much more. Steve

steveus, that has been my typical experience with NBT's, but this is the first bullet I've ever had fail to exit a game animal. I'm not overwrought about it though, it put the animal down quickly and effectively enough. I don't like no blood trail though! The only game animal I ever failed to recover was shot with a BT also, but it was a marginal shot, I wasn't certain about the impact location of the bullet. There was blood on both sides of the deers trail though, so I am confident of an exited bullet in that case. There was a lot of places for that deer to get to in a 100 yards or so, and despite going back to the area for 5 consecutive days, I never found him. There has been a deer sighted in the area in subsequent years that matches his description, so I actually feel like he might have survived my shot.

I've decided to go to a heavier bullet for the closer shot 'areas' and see what happens.

Thanks--Don