Well as I was testing some loads for my new wildcat first thing I know I'm up to 104% capacity. Comparing a load to the base of the bullet with my heavier load. So what is your normal limit?

The Ionosphere .

Watch yourself !. Loading manuals are normally a result of careful testing with a pressure barrel .

I look for accuracy personally , and never really need to " Proof " my weapons . As in almost every single case accuracy is less than Maximum loading data . powder Bullet Rifling and Rifle barrel are keys , not excessive loads .


Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

So what is your normal limit?

I'm not sure there's an answer to that.....But don't be afraid to compress powder and if necessary you can do it in stages.....load 1/3 case and compress.....load another 1/3 and compress again and then load the final 1/3 and stuff in a bullet.

As long as you're working up!!~!!

Many of my loads are compressed, and I don't set a limit per se. As long as the bullets don't start creeping forward, then they are perfectly fine in my books. Also, a drop tube is a lifesaver...

Dr. K wrote: "Watch yourself !. Loading manuals are normally a result of careful testing with a pressure barrel .

I look for accuracy personally , and never really need to " Proof " my weapons . As in almost every single case accuracy is less than Maximum loading data . powder Bullet Rifling and Rifle barrel are keys , not excessive load"
--

Dr. K-

You misread or simply misunderstood the question. He was not talking about maximum loads or exceeding maximum loads. Compressed loads are a different ballgame altogether. For example, in my 6.5 Bullberry Imp (aka 6.5x30-30 AI), you can't get enough Re-22 into the case to get yourself into trouble with my favored 140 grain bullets. Even my hunting loads using N160 powder are compressed -- and they are perfectly safe in the Contender action from which they are launched.

My 7mm Bullberry is much the same as I can't get enough Re-15 in the case to even reach a max load with Nosler 140 grain Solid Base (lead-tipped) spitzers. But I still get 2400+ fps and accuracy that is spectacular.

quote:

Watch yourself !. Loading manuals are normally a result of careful testing with a pressure barrel .

I look for accuracy personally , and never really need to " Proof " my weapons

Dr K. while I would love at times to have loading data for some of my wildcats. I guess if I did then I probably wouldn't have built them in the first place.

I will even admit in writing that in my earlier days to having blown primers in my load workups. As I've aged I've become more conservative. I've always taken the position if a load isn't safe at 0 or 110deg I don't use it. I have some rifles that give the best accuracy pushing the limit and others several grs off.

Since my wildcats have no loading data I build my own. I make my best guess of best powder burn rates start low and work up. If the first couple rounds don't show promise I pull the rest and switch powder. If a powder gives me a velocity that looks good I step up the load until I get pressure signs (visual and/or measured) or run out of capacity. I've pretty much just drawn a line in the sand at 105%. Right or wrong I have no idea. I was just curious what limit others were using.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

So what is your normal limit?

I'm not sure there's an answer to that.....But don't be afraid to compress powder and if necessary you can do it in stages.....load 1/3 case and compress.....load another 1/3 and compress again and then load the final 1/3 and stuff in a bullet.

As long as you're working up!!~!!

vapodog, what's your method for compressing a 1/3 load? I've never heard of this and can't see how it's done. I sometimes vibrate loads to take up less space, but there is no compaction involved.

My limit for a compressed load is provided for me free of charge by the cartridge case! When the case shoulder is bulged by compressing the powder to the point that one cannot chamber the round, I cut back the charge until this no longer occurs.

Why is it my sense of humor goes right over the top !.

So what is your normal limit? The Ionosphere .

As the Caliber or the powder wasn't mentioned !.

I assumed it was a compressed load !. been doing it for 40 + years .

So my standard response is !.

Watch yourself !. Loading manuals are normally a result of careful testing with a pressure barrel .

I look for accuracy personally , and never really need to " Proof " my weapons . As in almost every single case accuracy is less than Maximum loading data . powder Bullet Rifling and Rifle barrel are keys , not excessive loads .

Perhaps some of you failed to recognize a general statement , rather than a specific answer for a question with incomplete Data !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

usually when the case bulges out, and i have to superglue the bullet in, i figure I reached max

A few moons back when H4831 was less than $1.00 a # in a 50 # drum I use to put as much of it as totally possible into the 22 Varminter. Shot about 1/2 of it and traded the rest and it worked great.

Tried the same technique with another cartridge a good many years later using 5020 ( ball powder)and suceeded in pushing the primer out more than 1/2 way.Gave up severley compressing ball powders, and yes the bullet will back out on occasion. roger

quote:

Perhaps some of you failed to recognize a general statement , rather than a specific answer for a question with incomplete Data

Boy I sure wish I was smart enough to ask it so it would have been clear to you. Since I wasn't asking for a limit for my case, my powder or bullet I don't see that what it was matters. I happen to use 105% period. If someone has different limits for different cases I ASSUMED they would mention it in their answers. At no time was I ever talking about high pressure.

If my questions are just to incomplete please don't waste your time on an answer.

To the rest thanks for the input I go away with the feeling that most don't have a set limit.

Paul-

From the reloaders I have spoken with over the years, I gather, too, that for them there is no set limit and that each individual case (pardon the pun) is different. As to what another poster mentioned, I have never bulged a shoulder on a case due to a compressed load.

As to Dr. K & his comments, all I can say is that I am totally

To me, Paul's question was crystal clear -- and apparently the others understood it as well. So Dr. K, sorry if I missed your "humor."

quote:

To me, Paul's question was crystal clear -- and apparently the others understood it as well.

I was being polite in my answer to Dr. K

I've never bulged a case either. My limit is probably me being a little anal as my wife would say.

quote:

vapodog, what's your method for compressing a 1/3 load?

I have used a brass rod installed in the seating die and press it into the case with powder in it. It compresses some but not as well as the bullet will at the final. Same for 2/3 loads and this time we get more compression. The larger the caliber the better it works but for cases like the .222, it isn't worth the time.

Usually, using the term loosely you will reach a point while playing with compressed powders where you will hit a peak and receive diminishing returns.

you can pour in more powder and velocity will drop. I experienced this with the 35 Whelen and RL-15 powder and 225gr BT's. I could put in 60grs of powder but with 59.5grs I got higher velocity and better groups.

Watch your chrony.

Best wishes, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
usually when the case bulges out, and i have to superglue the bullet in i figure I reached max

Exactly!!

quote:

you can pour in more powder and velocity will drop. I experienced this with the 35 Whelen and RL-15 powder and 225gr BT's. I could put in 60grs of powder but with 59.5grs I got higher velocity and better groups.

I have experienced this velocity drop with heavier charges phenomenon as well. However I believe it has more to do with having passed the crossover point of a specific powder than it does with degree of compressiuon. In my experience, the velocity drop was accompanied by HIGHER pressures. It occurred with a ball powder in the 7X57mm Mauser case when attempting to raise the MV of the 120-grain Nosler solid-base bullet.

I'm sorry I'm so ignorant as to know that a case could contain more than 100% capacity !.

Capacity is capacity there fore even if compressed it can't contain more than 100% !.

I measure in absolutes !.

The amount of space inside a container provided for a given amount of product. Never to exceed 100% compressed or not !.

Please excuse my ignorance !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Many of my loads are compressed, and I don't set a limit per se. As long as the bullets don't start creeping forward, then they are perfectly fine in my books. Also, a drop tube is a lifesaver...

That's exactly what I would say. Short and sweet.
Ken

Dr. K wrote:

quote:

Capacity is capacity there fore even if compressed it can't contain more than 100%

--

Please read a few loading manual to learn about the premise of load density and compressed loads -- unless, of course, you are dead certain that you are right and that the rest of the reloading world is wrong...

Well you better be working with a very slow powder if your are compressing a load...

like if you are trying a compressed load of Blue Dot or SR 4759 or IMR 4198... I'd consider pyschiatric help... A S A P

OR ELSE:

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:
I'm sorry I'm so ignorant as to know that a case could contain more than 100% capacity !.

Capacity is capacity there fore even if compressed it can't contain more than 100% !.

I measure in absolutes !.

The amount of space inside a container provided for a given amount of product. Never to exceed 100% compressed or not !.

Please excuse my ignorance !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

There are no absolutes.

Take a gallon bucket. Fill it with gravel.

Full, right?

Now take a quart and a half of sand. Pour it into the gallon bucket with the gravel.

Wasn't really full, was it?


It's full now, right?


Take a quart of water. Pour it into the bucket. Wasn't really full, was it?


Actually, before you put the gravel in, it was really full. Of AIR.

Fill a case with powder.

All the way to the case mouth.

Full, right?


Now tap the side of the case gently.

The powder level settles down, right? (Every kid whoever opened a brand new box of cereal to find it only 3/4 full knows this, right? There is a disclaimer on every box of dry cereal sold in America that states "This product is sold by weight. Contents may settle during shpping." Check it out.)

Now put some more powder in until you reach the case mouth again.

Put a bullet on the case mouth and press it into place. You are deforming the powder granules, squishing them, COMPRESSING them.

What I described is obviously a compressed load, but the wrong way to accomplish it. But it is graphic.

I hope my feeble descriptive powers have helped. A good reloading manual with a chapter on compressed loads would surely help more. Better written, at the least.

Mathematically, the way you get over 100% of anything is by remembering that your basis is the 100% point. If you set a standard of 760 mph as the speed of sound, when you go 1160 mph you have reached 150% of the speed of sound. If you measure your case capacity at 50 grains of a particular powder dropped in free fall and you manage to squeeze in 55 grains, you have reached 110% capacity.

Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you find on the internet. Including this post.

Always wear eye protection, especially when working with primers and don't pinch your fingers in the press.

Lost Sheep (Larry)

My limit is usually my patience with mucking around trying to get the powder settled etc.
The proper way out of course is to just use a faster powder.

Regardless of how you want to fill the case , you simply can't put more than 100 % inside the case constrictions !.

If None of you understands this simple law of physics , please never post any loads for me !.

If you use a ball type powder it compacts more efficiently than say long kernels . If you use short cut powders it packs better than long kernels .

If you finely grind the powder to micron dust it packs even better , if you place a hydraulic ram and fill the case compress repeat and repeat it still only holds capacity = 100 %!.

Once a cases capacity is exceeded it deforms or blows out the case and you don't even need a primer to do that either !.

It doesn't change the fact the cases capacity is 100 % regardless of material in the case .

It's why water or liquid is used to determine a cases capacity at static density !.

I've Never seen a loading manual listing , IMR 4895 at 88 % or 109 % case capacity .

I've been around the block several laps and every single manual list loads by weight in Drams Grain or Onces not some phantom % of capacity figure !.

Over & School is OUT !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

quote:

Originally posted by Dr.K:
Regardless of how you want to fill the case , you simply can't put more than 100 % inside the case constrictions !.

HEY! Listen to the guy and stop getting him stressed out. Whatsa matta U??? roger

Dr K wrote:

quote:

I've Never seen a loading manual listing , IMR 4895 at 88 % or 109 % case capacity .

Apparently you have never owned or read a Nosler manual or spent any time amid serious members of the benchrest fraternity.

Perhaps you should consider a purchase of a Nosler manual in the near future...

quote:

School is OUT

Sure glad I missed class.

Just for Dr. K:

I will try and make this as simple as possible. When a powder fills a case to where the bottom of the bullet is seated, that is considered 100 percent load density.

Generally, a higher load density translates into better accuracy potential.

If the bullet is seated so that the base is level with the bottom of the neck, then any powder that intrudes into this space -- ABOVE the bottom of the case neck -- will be considered a compressed load, hence the numbers you have been seeing and disputing.

Again, pick up and read a Nosler manual...

Dr K

I believe we are all trying to achieve the same goal here. Communication, understanding and finding the truth.

I think the 100% basis you are using is different from what the rest of us are using. That is an easy source of confusion.

You have not said exactly what you mean by 100%, but I believe what you are saying is that your 100% is based entirely on the case volume, which, as you correctly point out, is constant.

The 100% some other folks are using is the (variable) weight that fits in that (constant) volume when you pack it by settling or forcibly with compression.

We agree that a case which can hold 50 grains of loosely packed powder is 100% full when it has 50 grains of powder in it. If you then pack 55 grains into the case by whatever means necessary, the case now has 55 grains in it. We are in agreement so far, right?

Where we disagree is that you seem to consider the 55 grains a new basis point for the 100%. I do not redefine the basis point.

Have I misunderstood you? Have you misunderstood me?

We can disagree about terminology, but arithmetic is pretty solid stuff. 5 grains is 5 grains. And 55 is 110% of 50.

Thanks for reading. What do you think? PM if you want.

Lost Sheep.

It has been a few years and I should probably go back and see if I can find the article before I post this but quite a few are just "shooting from the hip" here so here is my quick draw on density.
The case load density is based on the grains of water that it will hold. Some powders - no matter how you compress them - will never get to the 100% load density. Most ball powders reach 100+% of load density without ever filling the case. That is the way I learned it and it has alway seemed to fit the book data.
Having said that I will continue my roasting to come with this: NEVER compress a load that is not listed as a compressed load in the book. Compressed loads use a powder that is too bulky or slow to gain pressure that reaches the maximum without the compression. It used to be as common as using kapok to fill reduced charge loads. With the powders available to day you can probably find a more accurate and faster load in most any cartridge without ever having to compress a load. I know - there are some compressed charge loads listed in most of the manuals - some of them are even listed as the fastest loads for a given case and bullet. In the last twenty years I have never seen a compressed load that was both fast and accurate. The most accurate loads are usually somewhere between 94% and 97% load density with powders that took up nearly the entire volume of the case - exceptions are with H4895 and it is not a powder to compress but it does remain accurate to about 60% load density.

Now - I have said my peace and fully expect to be heartily flamed for it. I may have to dig out that old article and post it - or correct what I have said - either way I gotta believe that load density has less to do with the absolute volume of the case and more to do with the weight of the charge compared to the "standard" weight capacity of the cartridge.

quote:

I will try and make this as simple as possible. When a powder fills a case to where the bottom of the bullet is seated, that is considered 100 percent load density

This has been the method I've always used to set 100% capacity. Simply pour the desired powder into the case. The amount that fills the case to the base of the bullet is 100% capacity. Changing the bullet, OAL powder etc all change the 100% capacity number. Any increase then in powder charge above that point from tapping, vibrating, drop tube or simply using the bullet to pack the powder is a compressed load.

Here is what "THE RELOAD BENCH" website has to say on the sumject.

Compressed Powder Loads
One consideration of the actual powder charge is how it fits into the case. This means that the powder charge fills the case beyond the point where the base of the bullet will be when it is seated to it's proper depth. Naturally, the powder compression will vary depending on the seating depth of your bullets. The degree of variation you experience could range from no compression to excessive compression.

Compression of the powder will depend not only on the weight of the powder charge but on the size of the cartridge case. For example a 47 grain powder charge may be a lot to get into the case if you are loading a 243 Winchester. A charge of 65 grains might be questionable in a 7mm Remington Magnum, while it would be no special trick to get 100 grain charge loaded into a 416 Rigby case.

Heavily compressed powder charges (those that are fill more than 110% of the available case volume with the used bullet seating depth) are to be avoided. The results of excessively compressed charges might include cartridge overall lengths that continue to grow after the loaded round is taken from the bullet seating die. This is caused by the elastic nature of the compressed charge trying to return to its original volume. This means when the internal upward force of the compressed charge exceeds the strength of the case neck to grip the bullet the powder will slowly force the bullet out of the case. This can lead to jammed firearms and erratic ballistics, as well as very poor accuracy. None of these are desirable attributes.

Obviously, the reloader must be able to differentiate between acceptable light compression and excessively heavy compression of the powder charge. This is not a difficult evaluation.

The depth to which a bullet is seated will vary considerably with bullet weight, chamber dimensions and reloader preference. In a .338 Winchester Magnum, the base of a heavy bullet (i.e. 250 grains) may well need to be pushed past the shoulder / neck junction and into the case body. On the other hand, a light bullet (200 grain) bullet being seated into the same .338 case may need to be seated so that it occupies only the neck area.

It is not necessary to know the actual percent of powder compression to come up with the answer for this question: "Is this load's powder charge compressed acceptably or excessively?"

To determine the degree of compression, seat the selected bullet into an empty case to the desired overall cartridge length. Carefully secure the seating screw to insure a uniform seating depth on succeeding rounds. Also be certain that the die body is locked in a secure position.

Typical round to round overall length variation might range from +/- 0.003" to +/- 0.010" in the case of hollow point bullets. The variation is caused by the differences in individual bullet tips, the reloaders ability to measure repeatable lengths, tooling, and reloader techniques. You will, however, be able to establish an overall length for your components and tooling being employed by simply measuring a single cartridge. Make note of this overall length. Assume a potential variation of +/- 0.008" as the total range to be encountered. Experience has shown this to be a realistic approach.

Then place the desired powder charge, for which you wish to determine of the degree of propellant compression, into a primed case. Let the powder charge pour into the case normally. No attempt should be made to tap the powder charge into a minimum volume. With the previously adjusted seating die, seat a bullet into the powder charged case. Without delay measure and record the overall length of this round. If the charged cartridge's overall length is longer than the empty sample, plus the tolerance of +/- 0.008", the loaded round has an excessively compressed powder charge.

If the loaded length is the same as the empty sample (again with the tolerance of +/- 0.008"), re-measure after waiting 24 hours. If it still remains within the anticipated overall length tolerance, the load is probably compress within an acceptable range.

Final verification of acceptable compression requires assembling two or three boxes of ammo, checking each round for overall length immediately after bullet seating and again after 24 hours. If none of these loaded rounds exceeds the range earlier suggested (empty case length), the degree of propellant compression is fully acceptable.

The amount of force applied to the bullets base by compressed powder charges will vary. The method used when pouring the charge into the case and the propellant granulation size will both determine the extent of this force. The method described above allows a judgment as to whether or not the degree of compression is acceptable for a specific set of components and loading dimensions.

Note: Do not use any bullet crimp when using this method to judge propellant compression acceptability. Also, keep in mind that a neck sized case will produce less powder compression than a full length sized case. This is because the full length sized case will have a smaller internal volume.

If a heavily compressed load is acceptable, crimping the case to the bullet may provide sufficient bullet retention to prevent the problems that could arise with creeping bullets. Never use any compressed charge beyond the reloading data's maximum load recommendations. A compressed charge should never be used unless the bullet is seated to the specified overall cartridge length listed in your reloading manual data table.

Sometimes a heavy powder charge can be made to fit simply by switching the brand of cases. Even a change in lot number of the same brand can sometimes show a change in case volume due to individual lot variations in case wall thickness

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Well as I was testing some loads for my new wildcat first thing I know I'm up to 104% capacity. Comparing a load to the base of the bullet with my heavier load. So what is your normal limit?

I have compressed allot of loads.
a) Ball powder has a high bulk modulus [does not compress]
b) Stick powder will compress, a little, and you can hear some sticks breaking.
c) Flake powder will compress allot.

If you are getting that "104%" from Quickload, remember that internal case volume from brand to brand and batch to batch varies that much. Your powder may not be compressed.

When I compress a double charge of Power Pistol into a 9x19mm case with a 158 gr .357" bullet, the bullet may squish out and become a .370" bullet. That is why, for extreme compression, I compress the powder deeper into the case with a pin gauge locked in a bullet puller die. Then I seat the bullet.

When I do any compression with pistol loads, I drop the cartridge into the chamber. It must fall into and out of the chamber, or I will re size the loaded ammo with the Lee factory crimp over sized sizing carbide bushing.

Remember Ackley's experiments with 8mm bullets in a 30 cal bore? The bullets swage down easier than they squirm out of a pinching neck. [Bullets squished into a larger diameter from powder compressing force could be pinched by the neck of the case and chamber, giving a pressure spike.]

quote:

If you are getting that "104%" from Quickload, remember that internal case volume from brand to brand and batch to batch varies that much.

That 104% is taken from my case, powder and bullet. I simply measured the powder charge to the base of the neck. The base of my bullet is even with the neck base. Then simply arrived at the % my charge is higher.

The caliber is 411 and the powder is Varget.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Generally, a higher load density translates into better accuracy potential.QUOTE]



Hi Bobby -

I would not touch this debate on defining case capacity with a 10-foot pole. Just have an observation about the portion of your post quoted above.

I've read the same statment in various forms for many years. I've also loaded for literally hundreds of guns over the last 50 years. Am still loading somewhere over 100 different cartridges, from the .17 K-Hornet to the .470 Nitro.

My own experience has been slightly different than the post suggests.

I have experienced several guns & cartridges that seemed to do their very best when loaded to maximum for those particular guns (and sometimes away over book max). Still, the very best accuracy I have obtained in the bulk of the guns I've loaded for has NOT been at 100% capacity or over.

If I had to "guestimate" a % of capacity that seems to have generally performed the best for me, it would be something on the order of 96%-to-98% of case capacity as determined by the powder being used.

That is, if the case will hold 75 grains of H-4831 to the base of the bullet, then 72.0 to 73.5 grains usually has been about what worked best. And, of course this all only applies to powders of a burning rate which allow filling the case.

Of course, if we are seating bullets a set amount off the rifling, case capacity varies according to the weight (length) of the bullet, so the best powder and charge weight will also usually vary.

Anyway, not picking a nit with your post. Just saying that as individualistic as rifles are, folks should remember that they need to try different approaches to find the very best accuracy, and should not be surprised if it is slightly less than 100% available volume.

I have found also, over the years, that a surprising number of new loaders seem to like to justify their use of excessively hot loads (to both themselves and others) using the shibolleth that most accurate loads are found at 100% case capacity. That does NOT apply to YOU, I know. Just suggesting a little introspection on the part of those who have not done a lot of loading yet, and have adopted that saying as sort of a mantra.

Hell, I've beaten this horse to death

Highest regards,

AC

P.S.: Also really liked Paul's post. Very appropo IMO.

Alberta Canuck-

I do agree with you that each firearm is a rule unto itself. And that's why I specified "general" and "potential" as there are no absolutes.

In fact, I enjoy Blue Dot loads in both .223 Rem and .308 WCF (among others). The load density is low, but the accuracy and consistency are excellent.

Also, as you have noticed, I, too, have seen the trend towards hot loads. Heck, I do much of my hunting with Contenders and have never found the need for that last primer-popping FPS. For me, it has never been necessary to red-line anything.

Thanks for your reply.

quote:

Originally posted by PaulS:
- exceptions are with H4895 and it is not a powder to compress but it does remain accurate to about 60% load density.

Now - I have said my peace and fully expect to be heartily flamed for it.

Why expect to be flamed? do you think your wrong?
But, what's your story with H4895 not being a powder to compress???

See Hodgden loads .458WM. Compressed loads given for Varget, H4895,Benchmark,H322, and confirmed by ADI who make the stuff, and who includes AR2219 and AR2206 for good measure.

So, everyone, there has been some confusion with case capacidy and powder loading density.
Perhaps a bit of doomsday talk about compression, but I've never noticed a real manual/manafacturer warn of the dangers of pressure due to compression with any reasonable powder/load cartridge. Naturally you don't compress a case full of Unique in a .223.

The famous old U.S. reloaders wrote of filling a certain case with a certain powder to the brim and seating a bullet on top (somehow).
Worked for them whether the most acccurate or not.

Personally I don't compress any except the .458WM, and Ray Atkinson will tell you why you need too. . . The bloody case is too short.

I'm a chickenclinton in that I have an aversion to having a smokepole blow up in my face and muss my hair. I suppose the slightly compressed load is as safe as any other load known to be safe, but I just don't fool around with them. Medical care is too expensive, as are new rifles...

quote:

Posted 14 June 2008 07:17 Hide Post
Just for Dr. K:

I will try and make this as simple as possible. When a powder fills a case to where the bottom of the bullet is seated, that is considered 100 percent load density. ( NO IT'S NOT ) !.

Generally, a higher load density translates into better accuracy potential.

If the bullet is seated so that the base is level with the bottom of the neck, then any powder that intrudes into this space -- ABOVE the bottom of the case neck -- will be considered a compressed load, hence the numbers you have been seeing and disputing. ( NO I DON'T DISPUTE NUMBERS !) Only ones interpretations of said numbers !.

Again, pick up and read a Nosler manual...

(I have ) I've also read several others in 40 plus years of reloading .

Still doesn't change FACTS OR CORRECT NUMBERS !.







Posted 12 June 2008 05:24
Well as I was testing some loads for my new wildcat first thing I know I'm up to 104% capacity. Comparing a load to the base of the bullet with my heavier load. So what is your normal limit?


As usual just my $.02
Paul K


One last time !. : Capacity and load density are TWO DIFFERENT ITEMS !.


I for the life of me , I can't understand why some of you don't understand a simple principle of confined containment .

Water capacity in a case is it !.take one and fill it to the top . Now put a plug the exact diameter of the case , take a hydraulic ram force the plug into the case . WHAT HAPPENED ?.

Water didn't compress did it !. Case blow out ?.
Capacity of said case exceeded !. OR MAXIMUM LOAD DENSITY was achieved when case was filled with water I E Case Capacity !.

Powder can be compressed , and I never said it couldn't as I had listed several ways to do it , now didn't I !.

Who ever said I didn't hang around with BR people is absolutely correct .

Because if this is the way in which they achieve ultimate results !. By reloading cases in percentages rather than by weights . I WANT NO PART OF THEM !.

Odd how many reloaders use Scales though !.
An for a very good reason !!!.


Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Dr. K-

No one EVER said they devise loads via load densities or percentages. Where in the hell did you pull that out of?

This is so simple that it baffles me how you continue to veer off course, speak so much and say so little (much in the same vein as a FORMER poster whose writings/rantings were eerily similar).

Load density is simply a part of the process that many of us do pay attention to. Accept that and move on...

'Nuff said.

quote:

Originally posted by homebrewer:
I'm a chickenclinton in that I have an aversion to having a smokepole blow up in my face and muss my hair. I suppose the slightly compressed load is as safe as any other load known to be safe, but I just don't fool around with them. Medical care is too expensive, as are new rifles...

I have tried to blow up allot of guns, becuase other than Ackley, load books don't have that all important information.
In incremental work ups, I can blow up [primary failure is structural] revolvers and CZ52s.
I can blow unsupported case heads in semi autos and some bolt actions that cause part failure [secondary failures] by gas cutting or blasting.

In contrast, I can make the primers fall out of a 98 Mauser or a #1 Ruger all day long, and only the brass gets hurt.

Fear of the unknown is being fueled by ignorance.

If handloaders knew how much safety margin they had, posts on threads about compressing powder would not go global.

What does it all mean?
Face your fears, focus on the facts, ask yourself challenging questions, and then use common sense [try to go to the next level in your development, and don't get stuck on the Denton level].