Has anyone played with or had some kind of success with really reduced loads in 223? Is it possible to gat like a 35 gr bullet at subsonic speeds (say 700-800 fps) with pistol powders to reproduce a 22 Long CB performance? Any takers?

You could probably drop below 1190fps with 3 grs. of Blue Dot. 4grs. is as low as I know of and it is still above 1200fps.

The 700-800 fps can be achieved with a pnumatic pellet rifle.

I would try the Blue Dot route also. I've made loads with 4 grains and they were close to sub-sonic.

Check out this page: http://www.accuratearms.com/

Select "Reloading Data" on the left menu.
Then Per Caliber "Click Here"
Then "Rifle"
Then "Standard"
Then "22 (5.56)"
Then "223 Remington"

Scroll all the way to the bottom. They have some sub-sonic loads, but with heavier bullets than you mentioned.

If you try reduced loads of blue dot below 4 grains, please be safe and check the bore after each shot to make sure the bullet really did exit the muzzle! Probably an over kill, but you can never be too safe.

Good luck and stay safe!

Kory

No its not overkill, while working up my own subsonic 223 rnds, I had one stay in the barrel. It was very obvious because of the extra sound it made and the action cycled (it was an AR 15) Opened breech took out the cleaning rod and a couple taps latter the bullet came out. But would have been ugly if it was chased by another rnd for sure. So BE CAREFUL!

bearcat,

I've always wondered what is the minimum load your've been able to shoot from an AR-15 and still have it cycle reliably?

Thanks,
Kory

You have a suppressor in Wyoming?
If not, the .223 has too big a case volume to stay quiet [too much chamber and bore volume to get the peak pressure high with a small amount of powder, and more powder makes more noise].

I have shot 13 gr Blue Dot in the 223 rapid fire for hours and kept a clean bore and a cool barrel. But the muzzle pressure made a noise like a 218 Bee.

Yes, get a pellet gun. The ones with less than one atmosphere of muzzle pressure are quiet. If it says 1000 fps, it will be loud.

Just for You, POP; I loaded up my .222 with 3 gr. of Blue Dot and will shoot it Wed. roger

cool let me know. Also wouldn't Unique or bullseye be better?

quote:

Originally posted by POP:
cool let me know. Also wouldn't Unique or bullseye be better?

Don't use any. Use to use a lot of Red Dot when I was an ATA member. Can't see that good any more.

POP, if you are greek living in Wyoming are you from an old sheep raising family? No pun or foul intended. roger

There are loads posted in the Speer #13 Manual using AA 5744 for reduced .223 loads. With 40gr., 50gr., or 55 gr. bullet use a starting load of 11.0gr. to a MAX load of 12.0gr. Velocity is still over 1800fps in the 55 grain bullet so it may not be what you are looking for.

Nope in the USAF but I know what you're talking about!

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Just for You, POP; I loaded up my .222 with 3 gr. of Blue Dot and will shoot it Wed. roger

Shot the 3 grain loads today in my .222;

40 gr. Balistic Tips, fc cases, CCI Mag. primer, oal= 2.283". They were dirty, velocity was 838 to 862 fps and only one of three hit the paper at 50 yds. a key hole 9" below point of aim.Sorry about that, POP. roger

I use to shoot a lot of 45 gr cast bullets with a few grs of red dot for around 800fps.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I use to shoot a lot of 45 gr cast bullets with a few grs of red dot for around 800fps.

Gas checked?

I'll have to take up the challenge when I get another 223. I did try to make some quiet loads for my 218 mashburn contender, note, it's hard to stay quiet with a 10" barrel. I don't recall what the speed was 1100-1200 fps, but I tried a few grains of red dot under a 62 gr hp, and it was keyholing at 50 yds with dismal accuracy.

While fireforming cases, I was curious what sort of penetration the 62 gr bullet could achieve. I figured stacking up the scraps of wood I had lying around, 3 2X4's on top of a 4X4 would be a more than suitable backstop for such a mild load. I was quite suprised to find the bullet penetrated the first, second and 3rd 2X4, as well as the 4X4, then completely turned itself inside out on the concrete leaving a small crater. I thus gained a great deal of respect for even the mildest loads.

My thinking is if one is looking for decent accuracy in subsonic loads, and a mild report, you should choose the smallest case for a given bore, and use a cast bullet. Me thinks a 45 acp in relatively long barrel with a 250-300 gr bullet and a small charge of bullseye would be the cats meow

Yes gas checked.

You might try a slightly heavier bullet. It would be easier to get 800 fps out of a 45 grain bullet. You wouldn't have to reduce the loads as much and the slightly higher pressure might help with incomplete burning of the powder.

quote:

Originally posted by POP:
Has anyone played with or had some kind of success with really reduced loads in 223? Is it possible to gat like a 35 gr bullet at subsonic speeds (say 700-800 fps) with pistol powders to reproduce a 22 Long CB performance? Any takers?

Hey POP, If you would mention what you have in mind for them, it would help a bit.

I messed around with trying to get regular old "14.1gr Crossman Pellets" shooting from a 22Hornet years ago. Just a Primer would do for about two shots and then the barrel was so fouled with Primer Residue that the Pellet wouldn't Exit the barrel.

So, I went to small loads of WW-231 and determined I was blowing the Skirt off the Pellet if I used more than 1.3-1.6gr of powder. And of course, another barrel mess. Plus the Powder was highly position sensitive.

Found some Prometheus Hunting Pellets from England which appear to be a Zink center with a Nylon Skirt. Fooled with them just abit, but traded that last 22Hornet off, and have not tried them in the 223Rem.

If any of you choose to try any kind of Pellets, I can give you all a few tips.
1. Resize the Case without the Expander.
2. Put the Expander back in and press it into the Caseneck just enough to allow the full length of the Pellet to enter. This creates a smaller portion in the Caseneck "behind" the Pellet to keep it from falling into the Case.
3. Use a Pellet with a Heavy or Synthetic skirt.
4. Use the very fastest Pistol Powders.
5. You will be working in 0.xgr increments, so pay close attention to the scale.
6. Check the Barrel after every shot to make sure it is not obstructed.
7. Clean the barrel often.
8. Single-load the Cartridges. Just carrying them around is a trick.
9. Expect these tiny amounts of powder to be position sensitive.
---

Haven't messed with the 35gr bullets at all. But if I was trying to achieve 700-800fps with them, I'd probably go with "2400", simply because I've used it a lot in Reduced Loads.

Rodent killing at a suburban area

Pop,

What medium or big bore rifles do you have at your disposal? If you have a 35 bore, you're set. Use a soft 150 gr cast pistol bullet, and a ~1/2 gr of a fast pistol powder, with a dab of cotton to keep the powder in place. Sounds like a cap gun, will go better than 1/2 way through a decent sized phone book at point blank range. You can even run the 148 gr hb wadcutters backwards and they will open up at the mild velocities.

I use 2gr. Unique or bullseye with the NEI .224-71-gc. Gives sub moa accuracy at 820fps.

gents,
wouldn't the easiest way to get there be to call up jdj and ask for his 22 whisper loads?

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by POP:
Rodent killing at a suburban area

Hey POP, Since Santa Clause is getting all geared up right now, you might want to send him a letter and ask for one of the current "Air Rifles".

Years ago I bought a 5mm Sherridan Blue Streak because I had a neighbors cat decide to snooze through the night atop my boat cover. The depression the cat left, created a sag and instead of the water running off as it should, it would eventually drip through.

Had no real desire to just kill the pet, so I looked at the options and found that the Sherridan was noted for it's accuracy and the real plus was I could "adjust" the Impact Velocity by varying how many pumps went into it.

I believe I started at 3-pumps and would increase it 1-pump on each following cat visit. I believe either 6 or 7 was the magic Load to convince the cat it wasn't worth his rear end burning.

Crank it on up to 10-pumps and it will kill "Called-In" Crows and Squirrels easily with a single shot.

So, it was a fine bargain for me. I can see where a person that is not interested in "encouraging neighbors pets along" would be well suited with one of the new Gammo or Beamann Air Rifles.

Lots and lots of models in all kinds of calibers. If I got one, it would be a toss-up between the 17cal and 22cal. And I might go with a Break Barrel Cocker or a Side Lever Cocker. The main thing is getting a good trigger for me.
---

One HUGE problem with Down Loading standard 22cal bullets would be the "potential" for a ricochet. The Lead Pellets from the Air Rifles tend to flatten and stop, more than a jacketed bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by andrew375:
I use 2gr. Unique or bullseye with the NEI .224-71-gc. Gives sub moa accuracy at 820fps.

that will work!!!

anyone else?