In another post I asked about using .458 HAM'R brass to boost performance of the .458 SOCOM.

The .458HAM'R uses the same case with the shoulder moved ever so slightly forward, but has a small rifle primer pocket instead of large pistol like the SOCOM which must make it able to withstand the 46,000 PSI it is rated for. The .458 SOCOM only 35,000.

So is that going to make it safe to load to higher velocities if I use the HAM'R brass sized to fit into the SOCOM chamber?

I'll answer here; you are missing one major thing; the Hamr is not for standard Ar-15 platform. It is not the brass that limits the pressure; it is the rifle. I have built Socom on Mausers and operate them at 50K psi; no problems.
It ain't the primer and it ain't the Socom brass that is limiting.

DP beat me to it.

think about it like this.
would you cram a 308 load into your grand fathers 30-30?

Real question is WHY?

How much velocity you think you will gain?

What advantage would it have?

What is your main requirement for the higher velocity.

So I should have specified, this is relevant to a bolt action, and what I hope to gain is 200 or maybe even more fps, a 10 to 15% gain.

2400fps with the 265 tipped Raptor might become possible, which puts it into an interesting category.
I want this rifle to double as a subsonic amd supersonic hunting rifle.

Supersonic with the 264 or 300 grain bullets, and subsonic with a 600 grain bullet.

It even stands to reason that you could get 1200 or more out of the 600 grain bullets which is a 20% increase. That, for driven huntsfor example, will make a significant difference.

It seems my question was redundant?
So I could use the HAM'R brass for supersonic loads and the SOCOM for subsonic loads as a way to keep them separate.

Sure you can use the Hamr brass, but don't think the Socom brass is weak by design.

I have no dog in this discussion; just an old man limited to shooting light calibers at paper. But, I've always wondered if 200 FPS really makes a noticeable difference in hunting any game on this planet? Just askin....

The answer is no. Big bores kill at most any velocity; after all, we killed all the buffalos with 500 grain bullets at 1100 fps. What he probably wants is a small improvement in trajectory. Maybe.
And all of us just want more.....

In the basic analysis, yes. A stronger case with higher pressure can get more velocity.

The extreme example is the .277 SiG Fury. The brass cased practice ammo is substantially lower velocity than the hybrid steel based case.

So while a difference in a brass case might make some difference, I doubt it makes enough to make it worthwhile. Really as far as internal ballistics, the case serves as a gas seal more than anything. How the chamber and breech are designed will be more important.

True, the steel head cases like the new SIGs operate at 80-90K psi. The Army is now testing and buying 338 Norma SIGs. Remember the Steel Head cases from the 1970s?
Brass cases are all the same, however. Any notion that some brass cases are made for low pressure is not true. Rifles, yes.

Please report back your results

It will be interesting to see how much you can actually gain.

I am a bit doubtful that you will get so much more velocity just because of stronger brass.

So, yes those 200fps mean a slightly better trajectory.
The added speed also means better expansion.

200 fps is an optimistic gain just for changing brass, but I'll give it a go, and at worst, as I said earlier, it's a nice way to segregate sub and supersonic brass.

As has been said already, the first limiting factor was the type of rifle, in the bolt action you can probably push it a bit more, and maybe, the stronger brass will simply last longer through more reload cycles.

What I'm looking for now is a mould maker for some 600 grain boat tail hollow point bullets!

quote:

The added speed also means better expansion.

So many variables to say one way or the other.

When dealing with lower velocities rounds under 1500 fps a bigger change will be seen.

At the real low end a 50fps change can make a big difference on bullet performance. Like the same 800fps 45acp HP and a 880fps 45acp HP.

Bullet design is every thing.

Everyone! Please stop saying "stronger brass". that is not a thing in this case. Situation I mean. It is NOT the brass that is stronger or weaker. It is the rifles that they are chambered in. But in this scenario, the OP is using a bolt action, so that is moot.
458 SOCOM is NOT made "weak". I use Starline; I have done it. I just don't want new guys to get the wrong idea.

The better term is probably “thicker” in reference to the case head.

If I recall correctly, that was part of the problem with the old balloon head cases. Those were very thin and not a modern design.

And I’m not disagreeing with regards to the OP’s situation- the changes will be so minimal that I doubt you would be able to notice it… just that if you take it to absurd levels, it probably would make a difference.

Ok, the Socom is NOT a balloon head case. Those were completely different than the Boxer head cases. The Socom has a 30-06 size case head and primer pocket. Weak? I don't think so, in fact, I know it is not weak. The fact that it is a rebated rim, standard .473 head, does not make it weak.
For those who believe that a standard 30-06 case head is strong enough in a 30-06, but suddenly becomes very weak in a rebated head design with exactly the same amount of brass surrounding the primer, I may not be able to help you. Just look a 284 Win and think about that one for a second. I'll go ahead and give the pressure for that; 63,817 PSI. Not weak.

Good morning, Board;

In this instance, strength of the brass itself is not important as long as it is strong enough to seal the cracks at the back end of the chamber.

The function of a brass case is to seal across the cracks at the back of the chamber to prevent gas leaks. Strength comes from the gun itself.

Y'all be good;

horsefly

I recall and I have a few someplace around here..They are a steel head that screws into a brass case..I played with them for a few days and got 3556 FPS in my 30-06 with no problems, but backed off there for no other reason than it was a little unsettling...Those reuseble heads and threaded brass cases came in a 5 pack..Dont recall the name..I'll see if I can find them, I only used one of them for the test,never showed any signs if pressure..also very expensive as I recall.

Based on that and accepted knowledge that a gun is only as safe as its brass cartridge, Id say a stronger cases allows higher velocity??

They came out in the 1984 and were called Steelheads. There is a cartridge right now being tested by the Army; the 338 Norma. It is a composite case and operates at 80K PSI.
It is easy to make guns operate at 90K psi; our M256 tank cannon does it every day; using a steel case head and electric, screwed in primer. The primer is the "weak link".
As for "sealing cracks at the back of the chamber" that makes no sense at all. And neither does the assertion that 458 SOCOM brass is "weak". Total nonsense.

I guess this discussion touches the irony concerning the mass of different makes of brass. Though the heavier ones may be slightly stronger, their diminished capacity is thought to raise pressures with comparable loads, destroying any advantage.

Though a bullet's eventual moving forward destroys the analogy to some extent, this also makes me wonder about deeply seated projectiles. They obviously occupy powder space but give nothing back strengthwise.

to make brass stronger you have to make it thicker.

here is a good example.
257 Roberts.
regular brass XX grains of powder for X velocity at X pressure.

now take your PLUS-P brass and look at the reloading data.
it's the same XX grains of powder as above.

the two X's that changed are the pressure X and the velocity X.

all they did was put more brass in play which reduced the case capacity.
is it stronger?
probably down at the bottom where the extra is.

would the regular brass handle the plus-P pressure?
I bet it would,,, no problem, but then you'd have to put more powder in the case to get there.

One advantage to using the 458 ham`r over the 458 socom in a bolt action is that it removes the potential hazard of inadvertently loading a conventional AR 15 based socom with high pressure rounds.

to answer your question another way - it is possible to get higher chamber pressure by altering the cartridge material .. heavier, steel, whatever .. but it comes at diminishing returns in terms of velocity.

the socom is built to the platform ...

To answer your question? well, yes!