Hot Core, Did you notice that the shorter bullet (ogive to base) weighed more than the longer bullet. Maybe the boattail is different in length too. Might need two thingies; one for each end.

Is the diameter the same?

God Bless, Louis

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Damn HC, that's 3 wins for the duct tape and baling wire side

craigcampbell
beeman
rnovi

and zero for the thingy side!

I'm losing the thingy war!

I imagine jeffee and teenScum are ardent "Thingy" users. Of course, they are waaaaaaay too stupid to get into a rational discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by youngoutdoors:
Hot Core, Did you notice that the shorter bullet (ogive to base) weighed more than the longer bullet. Maybe the boattail is different in length too. Might need two thingies; one for each end.

Is the diameter the same?

God Bless, Louis

Hey Louis, Are you refering to the ones shown in the excellent photos by (my buddy) the esteamed Mr. Woods?

If so, I think they are all Boattails. The one that looks like a Flat Base has a slight bit of glare that makes it appear to be Flat Based.

That amount of Weight Variance(0.6gr) is exceptionally good for 200gr Hunting Bullets from the same box. The most consistent Bullets that I've used Weight-wise have been Sierra. But, it has been a long time since I've weight-sorted Bullets and the other Brands might be just as good as the Sierra's today. Obviously those Noslers are great.

I think the last Bullets I spot checked for Weight Variance were some Rem 50gr PLHPs. Probably checked 25-50/500, which is what I normally did, and they didn't vary enough to concern me. No idea what it was right now though. I just randomly pick bullets from that Lot and Load using the ODL and never give it a second thought.
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A Thingy for each end? You will have Mr. Woods all fired up now with a new dimension to measure(Boattail) - and a two Thingy at once possibility!!! Maybe a whole new set of "Thingies(I hope I got the spellin' right this time)" to toss on the market.

quote:

Is a consistent OAL a myth?

I've read many times how important it is to set a bullet ".0015" off the lands" - or whatever distance is it. That .001" can make all the difference in the world with accuracy. A thousandth of an inch...changing the accuracy dramatically.

OAL is typically measured from the tip of the bullet to the base of the case. And, this measurement for OAL works as long as the bullet hasn't deformed in any way. Surely the plastic tipped bullets are more consistent in this measurement.

But isn't the real needed measurement from the shoulder of the bullet measured exactly where the shoulder would first contact the rifling? How, exactly, would you measure that?

I recently tried to experiment with OAL and discovered, much to my chagrin, that it was IMPOSSIBLE to accurately measure the distance to the lands because I didn't have a consistent means of measuring the OAL. Bullet tip deformation on Nosler Partitions was worth nominally .05" - .1" of variation.

It dawns on me that I would need to use either different bullets (ballistic tips) or a different means of measuring the OAL (something from the bullet shoulder) than I currently do.

Of course, this all could be meaningless synthetic frippery. I'm not a benchrest shooter. Or, more accurately, I don't own any benchrest rifles that would be worthy of such an endeavor. I have hunting rifles. And that, in and unto itself, begs the question of "why bother" - a .30" group isn't going to kill dear any deader than the consistent sub 1" group I currently use.

So, what ARE the tricks to OAL and seating bullets "x-distance" off the lands?

To be quite honest, and hopefully not to incite the wrath of all of the noted experts, you could use a simple tape measure to set up your dies for a mag lenght and be done with it. Then work up the load simply by adjusting the powder.

Or you can use the set up described with the cleaning rod, or use one of the Hornady/Stony Point thingy's, or you could use them all, just depends on how curious or anal your are about your loads.

While I am not a BR shooter, I have used various methods to produce repeatable tiny groups from many different rifles. I have used all the above methods, sometimes in conjunction with one another, at one time or another, depending on the occasion or the intended load. I have a couple of rifles which I use at extended ranges of over 600yds, where the seating depth does make a difference in group size, and I have a bunch more where .010" doesn't make a hill of beans.

This said I use the Stoney Point more often than the rod method simply due to as you found out the tip variances are generally more than the ogive differences in a back or box of bullets. I use them to set an OAL for my load and I realize that there will be slight differences in each due to other influences, but these are for hunting loads, and it is WAY easier to adjust the die for .005 or .010" using the comparator, than to slide the rod and everything down the barrel each time I want to change. It also gives me a way to check my bullets for the rifles it does make a difference in.

For the most part, in a factory off the shelf hunting rifle chambered in most any caliber, your best loads will come from the primer and powder selection you make, and by keeping the OAL to a dependable functioning magazine length. If your shooting a custom tight chambered, short throated, precision built rifle, then have the smith build you a comparator using a piece of the barrel and the reamer he used to chamber it with, and then you will have just what you need to effectively seat to within the potential of the rifle, if your press and dies, and bullets are up to it.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
My point, Oddbod, or perhaps question is once you have used your thingy to learn that there is varience amongst your finished cartridges, what do you do about it?? Not shoot the ammo?

FYI, the operative word in your post is "significant". Which is a relative word as used. My question is still at what point does a variance cease to be significant? With Wood, it appears to be .002 or he hasn't found a thingie yet that will take him beyond that. .002, that's smaller than the diameter of a human hair isn't it? (I have none to measure) At what point does reloading the perfect cartridge become an obsession in and of itself rather than the means to an end?
Do you reload to shoot or do you shoot to reload? Or is it merely a dick measureing contest where you can say you spend more money than someone else? Compare, if you will, the total outlay of say Wood to the cost of a Lee Loader. Lotsa meat put on the table every year with ammo crafted with Lee Loaders. In the not too distant past, Bench shooters used rigs that were no more than Lee Loaders. Still few of them weigh their charges. And none of them go to the firing line knowing what the variances are amongst their cartridges.

Measuring loaded cartridges with a comparator is inherently more accurate than measuring OAL.
Once the seater gives me the length I want, why should I continue measuring?
Combined with the Stoney Point "thingy" it means I can set my bullets to a predetermined distance from the lands, rather than guesstimating with sticky tape & a cleaning rod bounced off the bullet nose - surely a pointless exercise in inaccuracy.

Perhaps yes, however, if you use a blackened bullet pressed against the lands, you are indeed using the ogive of the bullet as your measuring point and the rifle barrel itself becomes your thingy. Once you've touched the lands with the bullet, you can measure that particular catridge from tip to base (I don't think that individual bullet is going to change lengths )and work from that number in adjusting your seater die.
I am doing the same thing that you are just without the thingie.