Dear All, I have cross-posted this from the European forum. Not that this will directly have an impact on you as US residents, but I thought the business practices of MidwayUsa.com were so striking, they deserved to be brought to the attention of a wider audience... Here goes:

This is a little tale about a recent shopping experience I had on midwayusa.com. If you are not a US resident, beware of the business practices of this company.

Midwayusa.com has been a difficult proposition to shop over the years for non-US customers. For a while, they completely refused to service foreign customers. Of late, I had managed to create an account and order some stuff (for delivery to a US address). Normally I avoid Midway, but they carry some brands which are hard to find elsewhere.

So when I was looking for some Woodleigh bullets, I took a look at their website. Lo-and-behold the bullets I needed were in stock:

8mm Woodleigh Overview Page

In particular this was the bullet I was looking for (sorry, the HTML formatting is gone by copying directly from the screen):

quote:

Woodleigh Bullets 8mm (323 Diameter) 196 Grain Round Nose Soft Point Box of 50Product #: 722911
Status: Available
Currently
21
available at this price
Our Price:
$34.49

Fine, so I hit the "Add to Cart" button and proceeded to check-out. As a part of this process, I logged into my account, specified the shipping address (in the States) method of payment etc.

Much to my surprise, the bullets (listed at $34.49 on the above webpage) were now listed at $68.70 in my check-out information:

quote:

722911
Woodleigh Bullets 8mm (323 Diameter) 196 Grain Round Nose Soft Point Box of 50
$68.70

I had not paid attention to the original price, but thought the $68.70 was a good deal higher than what I had expected to pay... So after completing my checkout, I went back and looked at the webpage again. Now it read:

quote:

Product #: 722911
Status: Available
Currently
21
available at this price
Switzerland Retail Price:
$68.70

So logging into my MidwayUSA account, ordering a shipment to the US, the price about doubled and was now listed as "Switzerland Retail Price".

I called MidwayUSA, and had them put me on hold for 5 or 10 minutes while they discussed this phenomenon. They then requested I call *another* US number for potential clarification - at which point in time, I requested they cancel my order.

So it seems that MidwayUSA has decided to implement "destination dependent charges" - i.e. different pricing dependent on where the customer resides - not depending on the location from which merchandise is ordered or where it will be shipped. Destination dependent pricing is a well-known practice in countries where rule of the law is prevalent - such as Zimbabwe...

All I can say is, non-US customers beware of MidwayUSA business practices!

- mike

mho:

I see the bullets you want are still in stock. That's outrageous but not surprising. The owners of Midway are out for themselves, always have been. They or he, single handedly broke Bishop and Fajen, the two largest stock suppliers at the time, by themselves. Potterfield was smart enough to walk away without losing any of the rest of his businesses tho. The banks and other creditors weren't so lucky.

This isn't going to help your current situation much, but if you can find a way to "mule" any supplies you need from Dallas to Switzerland, (that are legal for air transport) I'll be glad to get them for you and hand them off to someone in the Dallas area. I'm too far from Houston to do it there.

I don't deal with Midway, he is a crook IMO.
Regards, Joe

the underlying concept is sound, the practice is broken,

the price of the ITEM shouldn't change, though the shipping charges could and should be variable.

exporting fees aren't THAT much

Because of miss adventures I've had with Midway I try not to do business with them. roger

Mike, Sorry to hear that you've had such awful problems with Midway. I wonder if some of the problems are due to import duty's etc.? It sure doesn't seem like duty's should be so high.

I've always had excellent luck with Midway. I just got my second Co-Ax press from them this week. They were $10 cheaper than the other people who listed it but didn't have it in stock. I got it something like 3 days after I ordered it. I like that their website will actualy tell you if something is or isn't in stock.

Maybe if I ever get to make it back over to Europe I'll have time to figure out what "Care Package" I should bring.........................DJ

I have always had good service from Midway as well.

Sorry to hear about your problem. I have never had a problem with the service from them. As a matter of fact, they replaced a brass vibrator that was 10 years old with a new one free on the midway lifetime warranty. My suggestion would be to get a friend here in the USA to have the products shipped to them at USA cost and then pick themup in New York and take them home. If you were visiting Ohio-- I;d have your order shipped here and bring it to you

Guys, I just wanted to say thanks for the many kind offers of help. You are a swell lot!

- mike

I don't use Mid-Way or Grafs or Bass Pro because I live in Missouri.

other than their shipping + minimum order policy, they've been pretty consisently okay ..

lots of places have better prices including shipping...

but nearly NO ONE has better overall selection

i do prefer brownells, for parts, most of the time .. and i certainly prefer grafs for primers and powders...

but reloading stuff? hard to beat midway .. while you CAN on individual objects, its not consistent

"I'm Larry Potterfield and that's the way it is."

I cringe everytime he says that on his commercials.

My $$$ go less and less to Midway, and more and more to Graf and Brownells.

Midway built their business by offering free shipping. When they changed that policy to buyer-paid shipping, the merchandise prices didn't go down. They use computerized prepaid shipping labels which do not show how much the shipping cost was, so when your receive your package you are unable to ascertain how much you were overcharged for shipping. Midway not only has among the highest prices of all shooting suppliers, they also consistently overcharge for shipping and pocket the difference. They stay in business because they are large enough to keep the best stock and can offer the most immediate delivery. Time is more important to a lot of buyers than is money or principle. Mea culpa: When in a pinch, I order from Midway myself.

I lived in Columbia Missouri for a time which is the city where Midway is located and is an hour from Grafs. I have dealt with Grafs and Midway both face to face. I try to order from Grafs as much as possible for reloading stuff and Brownells for parts/gunsmithing stuff. I generally agree with all of the negative comments voiced regarding Midway and try to avoid sending my money their way. Grafs is a great place full of friendly, down to earth people. It is a first rate operation based out of the small town of Mexico Missouri. I'd rather order from them and pay the MO sales tax than deal with other vendors.

Wes

I work for a large company that spends millions per year in freight shipping it's products all over the world. They have a contract with one of the big 2 carriers and pay about 50% of what you or I would pay for the same freight.

I'm 5 minutes from Graf's and it's hardly more than 30 minutes to Midway.

However I do agree Graf's is way more down to earth.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
I work for a large company that spends millions per year in freight shipping it's products all over the world. They have a contract with one of the big 2 carriers and pay about 50% of what you or I would pay for the same freight.

The difference between wholesale and retail freight can be huge, but Midway is not charging as big a shipping mark up now as they did in 2002.

Midway still has incompetent employees. I saw a mistake on the website and got a lifetime supply of 338 partition bullets. I bought so many I had to buy a 338 rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Tyler Kemp:
I'm 5 minutes from Graf's and it's hardly more than 30 minutes to Midway.

However I do agree Graf's is way more down to earth.

and now there's no wonder why you are broke! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
I work for a large company that spends millions per year in freight shipping it's products all over the world. They have a contract with one of the big 2 carriers and pay about 50% of what you or I would pay for the same freight.

The difference between wholesale and retail freight can be huge, but Midway is not charging as big a shipping mark up now as they did in 2002.

Midway still has incompetent employees. I saw a mistake on the website and got a lifetime supply of 338 partition bullets. I bought so many I had to buy a 338 rifle.

They make a mistake and you are out the price of a rifle. Good thing they don;t make too many mistakes.

I don't work for Midway and seldom buy anything from them. If I don't like a company's policy, guess what, I buy somewhere else. It's called Capitalism. Enjoy it while you can. It won't be around much longer.

This will piss off a lot of people but, why don't you buy what you need in Switzerland? And, I wonder what hoops I would have to jump through if I wanted to buy a bunch of 6 x 47 Swiss brass from Switzerland? (Both are rhetorical questions. Everybody already knows the answers)

JMHO

Ray

Graf & Sons:

40gr Vmax (bx 250) 37.99
ship & handl (UPS) 4.50

Midway:

same 35.99
same 12.96

Difference: 6.46

Graf's had them in stock, Midway did not.

I'm not overly fond of Graf's either. It thoroughly pisses me off that they plaster shipping/freight included in prices all over their ads, etc and then, whoa, guess what, it's included but it ain't, you have to pay the what, $4.50 handling/insurance charge. To me, "included" means exactly that, all costs covered with no extra charges involved. Personally I'd rather pay more to Midway than pay for "free freight". In addition, if you buy very much of anything at Midway the freight charges go up very little......in the above example try buying 10 boxes of bullets and see which is cheaper. I'm not defending Midway, just calling it as I see it.

Midway's differential pricing means I refuse to use their UK store - even with the fall in the Pound against the $US they're STILL way overpriced.
I too had a run in with them over ordering stuff for delivery to a US address, where they simply refused.
Luckily for me, I have a friend over the Pond with an FFL who gets dealer pricing from them, thus making things cheaper for me at Midway's cost in lost profits had they allowed me to order for US delivery myself.
Mind you; I use Natchez, Graf's & Brownell's too without any issues. It's ALL down to a balance of price & service.

Like the Madam said to the Bishop, "You pays your money and you takes your choice!"

I choose anyone but Midway.
Regards, Joe

Midsouth Shooting Supply has great pricing, particulary on components. Several times "sale" prices at Midway are still higher than Midsouth.
Plus Midsouth allows me to choose a "business" ship-to addy, avoiding the residential surcharge. When I called and asked Midway for same, the reply was "not available".
Midsouth gets way too much of my money....

Greg

I also live in MO. and many many years ago operated a gun store. I have known both Bob Graf and Larry Potterfield since the 1970's and both are actually good folks. I will agree that Grafs has remained more of a family type enterprise and it has continued to run in that manner. Midway has outgrown that type of business model, so they are just different. When Larry was starting to run with his mail order sales (later internet sales) most of the local small gun dealers (which MIdway was at the time) thought he was absolutely insane and consequently the jealousy kicked in when the business took off and made it big. I knew him when he had a shop that was smaller than most of our homes, and he is not what many of you think from TV ads. I had been running a retail gun store, and was approached by Larry for employment at the time he was starting to do mail order and selling cast pistol bullets nationwide. He wouldn't offer a job to his management until he met your wife, kids, etc. as he believed the employees needed to be an extended family, and if your wife didn't fit with the group, it wouldn't be a happy arrangement. That kind of attitude impressed me, so he doesn't exude any arrogance, etc IMO. There are no better country people than the Graf family as well, Bob's daughter and son in law are long time friends of my family and I have had a long busines relationship with them as well. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but I have had excellent service from both, and as a person like both of them.

I hold an ATF class 3 Curio & Relic federal firearms license. Midway grants me dealer pricing. You'd expect dealer's prices to be less than retail prices. Not always. Here is how Midway answered my question:

quote:

I've noticed your website quite often has the retail price lower than my dealer price. Why?

There are times where the Dealer price is higher than retail, because we are offering a sale price for retail customers only. Our dealer pricing is set by a different department and they may have other reasons for the price differences that are not disclosed to us here in the order center.

This point might be moot after the weeks that have passed since your order fiasco. Midway, like other websites, plants tracking 'cookies' on your computer. So no matter how many times you try to order items you wish shipped to USA, Midway's computer glitches will always occur. You need to either delete their cookies for your current account or start a new account. I'll wager your order proceeds in the way you desire by taking one or both of these suggestions.