My insurance company is having a cow over the fact that I reload. I'm nearly certain they have no clue as to how safe it is, when procedures are followed.

To arm myself I need info about accidents that have actually happpened to members here or associates. not busted knuckle type stuff but accidents that may have caused a loss of time on the job or a trip to the hospital. Nothing third party or friend of a friend please...

Many thanks in advance for the help.

Also article in magazines about the safety of reloading would be great. I'm in the process of Googleing it now.

quote:

My insurance company is having a cow over the fact that I reload

Find another insurance company......and pronto
screwem!!!!!!!!

How did they find out?

Yeah, What riflemanz asked!!!

This is one of those situations you use the ole "Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness"!!!


Cheers

For what it is worth, I was watching the Discovery Channel (Untold ER Stories was the name of the show I think), and a kid walked in with a shotgun press attached to his finger.

The brainyack decided to stick his finger, all the way to the last knuckle, in the crimping die. They had to completely disassemble the press, slid thin metal rulers in between the finger and die body, and lastly gave a little yank. Voila, out popped the finger.. That is after the doctor spent 45-60 minutes trying different ways to *pull* the finger out, OUCH! Needless to say, the kid did not have too many nice words to say to her, the doctor.

I'm with everyone else, find a new insurance company if at all possible.

The National Reloading Manufacturer's Association should have that info.

http://www.reload-nrma.com/

There used to be website which dealt with issues like that and on one of their displays they showed where one gallon of gasoline had the equivelent destructive power of approximately 80 Lbs of smokeless powder. So you can ask them about the gascan in the garage for the lawnmower.

I'll try to find it again.

Yep, BTU's per lb... Gasoline is king.

I'm the owner of Defenshield, I invented a caster mounted bulletproof shield (www.defenshield.com)



Anyway, I'm combining all my insurances to one company (The Hartford, the only one who covers auto, home, product liability, business, content... and so on) but there are still some things that overlap. If Collins reloads at home no problem, if Defenshield reloads at work, no problem, if Defenshield reloads at the house they have issues. I need to be upfront with them. Unfortunatly right now there doesn't seem to be a brand X I can threaten them with. They have not said "no" yet, but my agent is a non-gun guy and want's me to make the sale for him. The more info the better.

Many thanks

Not exactly what you are asking about, but how about this little fact of mine.

In 7 years of (mostly self tought via books and internet) reloading, I have had exactly ZERO mishaps of any kind when firing reloaded ammunition. In the same time, with the same firearms, I have had THREE with factory loaded ammunition. All 3 were failure to fire, probably due to high primers, but that should give any rational thinker an idea of the safety and quality control that we reloaders are capable of compared to factory fodder these days.

Just be sure that you impress on this guy that you reload for cost savings and to manufacture unique loads, but NOT uniquely powerful ones! Show him some of your reloading notes and compare them to the published data. You ARE below published data, aren't you!?!?!? That should salve some of the liability concerns.

Good luck!

I'm 49, started reloading my own .30-06 cases at 13, have had one blown primer and no mishaps. This insurance company is nuts. Smokeless powder is so safe, you can't hardly light 4831 with a match in the open air. I never had any trouble with insurance while riding a Harley, working cutting horses and driving a drag car. The only thing that was excluded was for life insurance while driving a race car on a quarter mile track. Even with a fast car, as long as you had an NHRA comp eliminator license, they wouldn't exclude me for life insurance for being a weekend racer. Something is seriously wrong with your insurance man/ company. Find one who's a hunter, there are a lot of insurance men who hunt and shoot, mine does.

Talking about accidents, I have a friend that is pretty lazy and does things half-ass, even when reloading. I am afraid that he is an accident waiting to happen. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone would have pictures of a blown up a firearm, mainly a rifle. I want to print them out and get them laminated, so he can see what happens when you're not paying attention or being careful. Thanks

Reloading since 1963, other then pinched fingers, no blown primers, no fires, no blown up guns. Had a couple of stuck cases, if that counts.
Mike

I´ve made a lot of mistakes while reloading but not even I, "Mr Accidentprone", have been able to create any serious situations.

Did ignite some gunpowder in the snow a few weeks ago -that was fun!

I was removing bullets from some 300 RUM rounds a few years ago prior to my first elk hunt. I was using the old hammer thingy that RCBS sells. Anyway, when rapping it on the cement floor to dislodge the bullet....BAM!....with no bolt face to hold the primer in (obviously), the primer shot past my right eye and ripped a neat gash back to my right ear. I now have a cute 2" long scar about a quarter inch wide back to my ear as a reminder! Had I been looking closer, or the primer been 1/2" to the left, it would have gone through my eye into my brain killing me. Scared the hell out of me, as it had some velocity behind that primer!

By far the most gruesome reloading accident I have ever seen was watching two guys sighting in an old 03 Springfield at a public range prior to deer season. This was their first attempt at reloading and it showed. Upon interviewing his buddy after the accident, the guy said this was, indeed, their first time reloading....they just bought some powder, bullets, and primers and "filled up the case with whatever that powder was" and lit her up! At the first shot (I was on the bench next to him) I heard an awful shot...loud as hell...you knew something was not right. I turned around and the guy was laid out 3-4 feet behind the bench, blood everywhere, and the bolt, minus it's recoil lugs, was embedded in his forehead. God, I will remember that day forever. They all had us sign affidavits as to the events and closed down the range for the day after the interviews. God what a mess.

quote:

Originally posted by Hank H.:
I turned around and the guy was laid out 3-4 feet behind the bench, blood everywhere, and the bolt, minus it's recoil lugs, was embedded in his forehead. .

Okay, Paul Harvey, what's the rest of the story? What was the ultimate outcome for the victim? I assume not good, but you're not specific. Enquiring minds want to know.

Hank,
Holy Cow I bet that smarted some. The dumb fucks are luck that they didn't take out shooters to the left and right. Hank that was you lucky day.

I have had only one incident while reloading ang it was my fault.
At the request of a new Argentinean friend (Gustavo Olsen) I took down a reloading setup for both Rifle and PIstol.
We were in his casita de asado and I was showing him how to prime cases with a Lee Primeall or what ever they call it. I was using Win primers and I was having trouble seating a primer and gave it an extra grunt and the whole damn tray blew.
ERROR # 1 I was not wearing googles or glasses
ERROR # 2 I hercked the priming tool when I should have stopped when I felt the resistance.
I received numerous small cut on my face, but thought no more about it. NEEDLESS TO SAY I gave a bad example to Goose and I don't know if he ever loaded any ammo.
This occured just a few days before my departure
When I returned to Miami I started to have problems with my left eye. It was draining puss and hurt like hell. I with to the eye doc and on examination they extracted a small piece of the primer tray cover from my eye. I WAS VERY LUCK TO SAY THE LEAST.
I call Lee and they told that they don't reccomend using Win primes in their tool as they are a tad larger than other primers.
God looks after Drunks and little children of which I am neather so I don[t know why he was watching out for me.

Accidents for me? None since I started in 1968 and I've loaded smokeless AND black. The black has been loaded into muzzleloaders and BP cartridges as large as my .45-120.
BTW, why in h--- did you open your big mouth anyway? I wouldn't screw with 'em, I'd get another insurance company like the other guys suggested. Do you have a garage? If so you park your car in it & it has gasoline in the tank. If you park any motorized "toys" in the garage, those use more gasoline. Gas is a helluva lot more dangerous than smokeless.
To really press your point home, take a can of smokeless and an ash tray to your agent. When you walk in & sit down, pour a bit of powder into the ash tray & light it with a piece of paper. All its gonna do is burn.
In short, you're dealing with a bunch of idiots - get another company.
Bear in Fairbanks

Hey Collins, Have you tried contacting "our" NRA?

quote:

This was their first attempt at reloading and it showed. Upon interviewing his buddy after the accident, the guy said this was, indeed, their first time reloading....they just bought some powder, bullets, and primers and "filled up the case with whatever that powder was" and lit her up! At the first shot (I was on the bench next to him) I heard an awful shot...loud as hell...you knew something was not right. I turned around and the guy was laid out 3-4 feet behind the bench, blood everywhere, and the bolt, minus it's recoil lugs, was embedded in his forehead. God, I will remember that day forever. They all had us sign affidavits as to the events and closed down the range for the day after the interviews.

Yup...this is exactly what we should tell our insurance company.....

Hank H, I believe that is called 'thining of the herd". I have been reloading .44 mag, .45ACP/LC for over 20 yrs, with no accident. Just concentrate with no distractions, double check powder loads and go have a lot of fun!

quote:

Originally posted by FlyingAce:
... Anyway, I was wondering if anyone would have pictures of a blown up a firearm, mainly a rifle. ...

Hey Jim, You can do a "Find"(Search) on the GunSmith Board about Sako's blowing up which has a good many pictures of them.

Or PM "Lawndart" and ask him to email you some. He will have all you want to look at.

There is a Thread on the GunSmith Board right now where someone shot a 308Win in a 25-06 and it has one flick of the Case stuck to the Bolt.

I think I've experienced more risks while having sex with my wife than when reloading. I've never reloaded when; under the influence of ETOH, in the back seat of a car, in the dark, first thing in the morning, in the shower, next to an open fire, etc, etc. What would my home owner's insurance company say about this?
I only reload in my well lighted garage. Hey, that gives me an idea....
Albatross.

The worst handloading accident of which I have personal knowledge involved a friend who at the time was a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

He was using one of the old Lee hand-tool sets for 12 gauge, and loading at his dining-room table. One of the rounds fired as it was being hammered into a die, and the damage included the loss of one eye, and also much of the die went through the table-top and destroyed one of his knees.

Naturally, the incident also cost him a promising career in the RCMP, to boot.

Do you mean an "Original LEE LOADER for Shotgun Shells. A Complete Loading System". I still have one I purchased in 1980. I've reloaded thousands of 12 gauge 2-3/4" shells with reloading set, without incident. I can't find a reference in the instructions to hammering a live/loaded round into anything. The instructions do show using a plastic mallet eject a spent primer, then to seat a live primer, but I've never had one detonate when doing this.
The loaded round is pushed by hand into the die body, and the "rammer" is also hand pushed to finish the crimp. If the primer is seated correctly, and if the above steps are completed on a flat surface, there shoud be no chance of mishap.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing or discounting the Mounty's misfortune. However, failing to follow instructions with any reloading apparatus, especially if the deviation from instructions seems particularly foolhardy, seems to be courting trouble.
Albatross.

quote:

Originally posted by Collins:

Anyway, I'm combining all my insurances to one company (The Hartford, the only one who covers auto, home, product liability, business, content... and so on) but there are still some things that overlap. If Collins reloads at home no problem, if Defenshield reloads at work, no problem, if Defenshield reloads at the house they have issues. I need to be upfront with them. Unfortunatly right now there doesn't seem to be a brand X I can threaten them with. They have not said "no" yet, but my agent is a non-gun guy and want's me to make the sale for him. The more info the better.

Many thanks

Well for starters there are other Hartford agents in your area. But if State Farm has an agency there my guess is they can cover all of that for you as well and maybe cheaper?

The guy passed on....they took him to the hospital while they interviewed us, then sent us on our way. Hell of a mess.

You will find that The Hartford are real pricky about wood stoves. I tried the same thing with insurance (through AARP), wound up with auto only.
Good Luck!

I have a considerable amount of powders in my reloading room.(seven 8 pounders and maybe 20-25 various 1 pounders,some full,others half.)
My insuranceman was 'summoned'by an appraiser from our bank,we were getting a Home Equity loan.
Bill,my agent came by and looked at my powders and reloading room in general.He didn't have a problem with it.
And no, he is not a shooter or a hunter.
Get yourself another agent.

BTW, I called my bank and told them I didn't appreciate the Candy-Assed appraiser they were using.

BTW2, if you think gasoline is explosive,check out the propane tank on your grill.

By far the most gruesome reloading accident I have ever seen was watching two guys sighting in an old 03 Springfield at a public range prior to deer season. This was their first attempt at reloading and it showed. Upon interviewing his buddy after the accident, the guy said this was, indeed, their first time reloading....they just bought some powder, bullets, and primers and "filled up the case with whatever that powder was" and lit her up! At the first shot (I was on the bench next to him) I heard an awful shot...loud as hell...you knew something was not right. I turned around and the guy was laid out 3-4 feet behind the bench, blood everywhere, and the bolt, minus it's recoil lugs, was embedded in his forehead. God, I will remember that day forever. They all had us sign affidavits as to the events and closed down the range for the day after the interviews. God what a mess.[/QUOTE]

I can believe that!!!! LMAO

This was about an employee of Sarco
It occured 2002.

Begin quote
Glenn was involved in a tragic accident on Saturday, June 29th when his 1895 Remington Lee Rifle exploded. He was taken to St. Luke's Hospital in Bethlehem, PA, but was not able to recover. He was 54.

Glenn was a devoted employee of Sarco for 28 years, and specialized in military firearms. He had a tremendous love for guns and was passionate about his work. He was among the most well respected and knowledgeable people in the industry. Glenn was good friend and he will be missed. End quote

also this

http://www.subguns.com/boards/reloadingarchive.cgi?noframes;read=4022

Best insurance I've ever discovered and will have no problems with reloading in the house either is: Farm Bureau. Much cheaper too.

When I was a kid, had a neighbor that had primers, whether he reloaded, or not, I have no idea. But, we had been chipping the white tips off stick matches and putting them in the nut between two bolts and throwing them against the sidewalk to make the bang. He came out to see what the racket was and donated several hundred primers. We also hammered lots of them on the concrete walk to make them pop. Don't ever recall getting hit by the pieces then.

I've split some cases, but, defective brass. Only time I fired a reload and had a problem was on a 105 degree day while shooting lots of prairie dogs til the barrel would almost blister a hand. Decided to take a leak and left one in the chamber, close to 15 min. When I fired, it smoked my eye and contact lens with powder and the case stuck. Took the gun right to the gunsmith and he said: "hot loads on hot days and fast shooting will do it everytime. Next time don't chamber a cartridge til you're ready to fire when the guns hot."

The serious thing I did almost burned the house down. During the winter, I loaded and cast bullets in the den on carpet. Been loading since 1958 when I was 14 and never had an accident yet, til these two times. Anyway, over the several years of having the press, powder measure etc in the same spot. Some powder had been gradually spilled in the knap of the rug. I'd vacuumed a couple days before but, that don't get it all out.

I was casting bullets and dropping them in a bucket of water at my feet. Using a 6 cavity Lee mold for production purposes. I dropped a hot sprue between my feet. Before I could tip the bucket over, the powder filled rug ignited and terrible smoke from the powder and carpet hit me in the face. I turned the a/c fan on, ran in and alerted the wife and opened the doors. Then ran back in there to put out the fire with the water bucket. Soon as the smoke cleared things were checked well. There was a knapless area about a foot in dia was the only damage. Wife chewed my ass til it was sore of course. Since then, I've replaced the carpet with one without much knap, buried the wife and do all my casting in the shop.

Sure hard to believe the smoke rolled so fast I couldn't even tip the bucket over beside my feet!

George

quote:

By far the most gruesome reloading accident I have ever seen was watching two guys sighting in an old 03 Springfield at a public range prior to deer season. This was their first attempt at reloading and it showed. Upon interviewing his buddy after the accident, the guy said this was, indeed, their first time reloading....they just bought some powder, bullets, and primers and "filled up the case with whatever that powder was" and lit her up! At the first shot (I was on the bench next to him) I heard an awful shot...loud as hell...you knew something was not right. I turned around and the guy was laid out 3-4 feet behind the bench, blood everywhere, and the bolt, minus it's recoil lugs, was embedded in his forehead. God, I will remember that day forever. They all had us sign affidavits as to the events and closed down the range for the day after the interviews. God what a mess.

In his forehead?¿ How in hell was he holding the rifle to get the bolt in his forehead? I'd like to have seen his shooting form to line up the bolt with his forehead! I claim bullshit on this one! It would have had to shear off the bolt handle as well!

IF that 03 story is true (big if) it is the first time I ever heard of a bolt coming out all the way.
How about some more details.
Take Care1

The 1903 also has that silly safety lug that would have to shear off and in the process probably redirect the bolt to one side.

Many years ago I had a reloading accident involving my .270 winchester. I was new to reloading and began target shooting with my reloads at a nearbye range. After firing off a couple of rounds the report of the rifle on thew next shot didnt quite sound right. I was confused as to why I couldnt see my target through my scope. It turns ou that my barrel was split into three with the peices at the muzzle end about 8 inches apart from one another. I dont know exactly what happened but I assume that the previous round must have been undercharged and left a bullet in the barrel. The incident put me off reloading for 13 years. Now I weigh all my charges individually and visually inspect my charges as well as my bore prior to firing each round.

Grizz you can claim bullshit all you want, till the day you die...it happened, I was shooting from the damn bench next to the crazy guy. I see where you put my quote in bold where I was referring to it being embedded in his forehead. Perhaps you may have interpreted me as inferring that the bolt was "sunk to the hilt"...that was not the case. Sorry if that was what you thought. The bolt did not achieve 8 or so inches of penetration, but it was in there! It was a mess. I am now 48 years old and can still see the mess in my mind's eye like it was yesterday. I know if I tell you this you will also call bullshit on me, but it was two old black men that pulled this stunt off. Really. I don't want to make fun of anyone's misfortune, but I really felt sorry for them, as judging from the other guy that was not doing the shooting, they had no business trying to reload.

Bizzare story, but 100% true.

i HAVE NOTED hank's other post and I thing that to call a member WHO WAS THERE a liar is at the very least rude and at most down right dispickable. Why would he lie? Hell as Elmer said "Hell I was There". We are a loose confederation of people that are general like minded. Sure it is normal to ENLARGE on hunting and fishing stories, but when a member states that HE OR SHE WAS THERE AND SAW IT HIMSELF OR HERSELF I think we owe it to our fellow member to accept his word.
Errors can be made with Vel and Powder charges and other stuff, especially you are getting old like me and SOMETIMES I REMEMBER WRONG, but a direct statement of an eye witness should be accepted as truthful. Hank if the man from up north will not apologize I will do it in his behalf. I believe you for damn sure.
Jack

I’ll have to admit I had my most serious reloading accident a couple of years ago now. I still haven’t fully recovered from it. I was out in my shop one evening and usually I'm very meticulous loader. But at times we all get a little rushed and it was getting near bedtime and I wanted to finish up. In hast looking back I wasn’t as careful as I could have been. It is when we reflect on those moments we ask ourselves why I did that? One lax moment and a third of a bag of number six shot was rolling all over my loading bench and onto the floor. Yep today I’m still finding that shot all over my shop. One careless moment when is ever going to end

My worst so far is burned fingers from catching cast bullets that were too hot. Aside from that I've had one batch of reloads that gave pressure signs when the barrel was hot as mentioned above.

Now if you want to ask about accidents with chainsaws or axes then you'd have something. I can tell from experience, too, that gasoline is way more fun, I mean dangerous, than smokless powder.

Winggunner, in my mind there's a difference between bullsh*t and lying. BS is embellishment, like the size of the fish grows a little at each telling.

Hank if you say it, I guess I have to accept it. Therefore I appologize for casting doubt on your tale. BUT I sure would like to know what sort of shooting form those gents had, to get the bolt embedded in his forehead!