Since I keep seeing requests for data it made me wonder if manuals are going to go the way of newspapers.

Question:
Does anyone buy and use reloading manuals anymore?

Choices:
Yes I buy a used manual about once every 10 years.
Yes I buy a new manual every 3 to 5 years
Yes I buy each new manual that is published
No - I roll the dice & scrounge data off of the internet
No - Who needs a manual or data, I make up my own.

 

Wow your manual buying habits are similar to mine after 40 plus years. I wonder how many were too embarrassed to fess up to living on the wild side.

Thanks to those who participated.

I like the paper manuals.....have 90% or more of them published over the last 20 years.....

That doesn't mean I don't also have and use quickload

Cheers,

Dan

I have Sierra, Hornady, Hodgdon and Barnes manuals, but they are all at least 20 years old. Brand new and complete reloading data from Accurate, Ramshot, and the Reloading Data Center with Hodgdon, Winchester and IMR powders are all available on line. I think paper manuals are on their way out.

Just DL'd the Nosler #7. Last one I had was #4.

When I need to design a new load, such as for a new rifle, I invest consderable time doing so. I consult several manuals, apply my experience, select two or three powders that are of somewhat different burning rates, etc. I then load and shoot a ladder with each powder using the most likely or most preferred bullet.

I would guess that each design process takes at least 2-3 hours. A similar amount of time goes into case prep. These are the basics. Skip them at your peril. Oh, and I keep meticulous records.

I have manuals going back to the mid 60s because I started loading in 1969 - one of every manual printed back then. As time went on some manuals I learned to prefer, others I tended to avoid. Some have 6.5 Military rounds and some don't. Afew have 50-70 data most don't. Some have wildcat data and many don't.
For a known cartridge I try to use a 4 or 5 sources of data. Data can also be powders of almost exactly the same burning rates that is not followed per se but it does act as a sanity check. I throw out outlier data such as a high and a low manual and wind up with 3 manuals that basically agree to some extent. That data I tend to trust.
Cast bullet loads for a 40-65 or 38-55 take more research and a little more risk since there is so little data.

One of these day I need to buy an internal ballistics program and try it out. I had a freebie from South America but I lost it when a hard drive died.

I finaly just recieved my copy of Lymans 49th about a week ago. I like comparing manuals and making assesments based on my own experience. Sometimes the older manuals come up with some intresting loads, for instance I have been considering trying one from an old Hornady manual that showed some pretty exceptional #'s from a powder that today would be considered rather fast for the caliber. But most of the time I start with more modern data due to the fact that some powders in older manuals are not the same today.

I have NEVER used an internet load without first consulting the manuals and working up. But there is a wealth of knowlege on forums like AR that can sometimes prove pretty valuable.

I use QuickLoad.

Free printed powder guide-Alliant- Order here- http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog.aspx Other Powder companies may still supply them. Hodgdon online - http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

For the first 35 years or so I only used reloading manuals;mainly Speer. Some time in the early 90s I started saving data as I was doing more paper shooting than hunting.This data was on paste in data sheets and stuck into reloading manuals.
With the advent of a personal computer into my life, a copious quantity of data collected from my loading and shooting results are stored in that computer. This than is my major go to info source . One reason is that I use a lot of surplus powder, another is I load a lot of my own wild cats.
The manuals ,however, are still used as a point of interest and reference. Some of the manuals I've collected have not been opened ,perhaps , in over 5 or 10 years. roger

I usually like Steves pages and info from fellow members.
I just got the new Berger manual for Xmas and it has inspired me to update my Hornady, sierra and Barnes manuals.

I get a new manual every couple, three years mostly to cover the new powders that show up.

If they publish a reloading Manual I don't have I cannot wait to get a copy. I use the internet, Steve's pages and anything else that would give reloading information. While the older manuals don't have the new powders, I still find good info in all of them. I even have the European manuals that can be quite interesting. Good shooting.

Ten manuals are enough. I might peruse the new ones to see if my loads show up, but no sense redoing the past. If a new-to-me powder fills a niche, I'll try an online recommend (after rechecking manuals).

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
I get a new manual every couple, three years mostly to cover the new powders that show up.

+1 Also the new manuals usually have a 1 page story about the history of the cartridge or some one's shooting experience with it that I always enjoy. I also use the net if using a new component that is not covered in any of the several print manuals that I keep.

New manuals cover new powders that I will try. They also cover the new bullets that come out.

It's a no-brainer.

For those of you that use various interior ballistics programs I suggest that you read the saga of the Therac 25. This was the first known incident in which software programming killed someone. Just be safe.

BTT - People keep asking for loading data like they don't have manuals.

According to the poll 5 said they roll the dice and scrounge data off of the net. Two said the make up their own data.

Kind of in line with the above, I buy a new reloading manual from a different bullet manufacturer every few years; besides just looking up the data for my calibers and loading advice in general, I like to read up on the other 99% of cartridges that I don't reload, just out of interest. Just in case I ever do get that .460 Weatherby and want to work up some loads for it.

Being as I only use Hodgdon powders (not by design its just what I've always used) I pick up their yearly supplemental pamphlet, and every year or so I will buy that years "magazine" that has loads listed in the back. That and Nosler's website with load data.

I use powder manufacturer's and bullet manufacturer's loading data off their websites.

I haven't bought a reloading manual in 15 years.

We use manuals as a general guide only.

As many of you must have found out by now, each rifle is a law unto itself.

We have had rifles that will blow their primers with 10% less powder charge than the starting loads in a manual.

We have had rifles that will digest many grains of powder than stipulated as maximum in some manuals.

I've become a firm believer in Quickload. I do however check what Quickload tells me against what my powder manufacturer (Somchem) manual says.

Nothing beats real world experience, the younger guys in the shop ask me about 500 questions a day and some questions were just answered last week but in order for them to learn and develop the experienced should hand down their knowledge to the next generation, unless your knowledge is your income....that's another story

quote:

Originally posted by cub124:
Nothing beats real world experience, the younger guys in the shop ask me about 500 questions a day and some questions were just answered last week but in order for them to learn and develop the experienced should hand down their knowledge to the next generation, unless your knowledge is your income....that's another story

In this setting the younger guys many not know enough to tell the experienced and wise from the guy that has 3 months of experience and no wisdom. It can be risky of you develop whe I consider poor habits of not using reasonably reliable data. Handbooks have errors and you should cross check several to be sure. To take posted loading data from total strangers who may be fools can be dangerous.
I continue to see guys coming to this forum asking for some of the most basic loading data.
It is as if they are too lazy, lacking of initiative, analytical skills and just too cheap to invest in the most basic data that will insure their safety and success.
Amazingly it can be safe and simple to produce ammo as good as the factory. With more work factory ammo quality is normally exceeded.

Case in Point, I recently went to Alliant website to look up bullseye for 230 gr RN and it stated 5.7 gr, I was advised not to shoot them, I agreed and pulled the bullets. I asked here and some said to reduce by 10% and then work up, which (i forgot) is the rule of thumb across mostly the entire hobby of reloading, So I loaded at 5.1gr then I found my manuals, one manual stated 5.0gr if I reduced that by ten percent it would be 4.5gr

to me the span of 4.5gr - 5.7gr is too big of a margin….. am I wrong? so I ask what other people have found. Just because someone asks a question does not mean they haven't put in any seat time,

Lazy is the bigger part of most, whether they admit it or not, second is just acceptance, everyone wants to hear the words "good job" "you’re on the right track" "you got it right"

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
To take post loading data from total strangers who may be fools can be dangerous.

ABSOLUTLY DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE NUMBER OF IDIOTS YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY

i have a few old manuals i referance time and again and i do look at about 4 different reloading sies on the PC.. the loads i use for personal use are not anywhere but in my head... the .357 magnum load i do gets me a chonograghed velocity of 1230 fps...... just right! but i've never seen it in print anywhere....... since i use bullseye and red dot powders exclusively i am extremely care not to over load...... i use info from different sounces as guidelines and not absolutes and get along pretty well......

"obama is the worst fraud ever perpetrated on the american people"... clint eastwood

While I have 7 manuals, I still go to the web site for different powder manufacturers as things do change. The latest "warning" greatly reduces the charge of Blue Dot in the 357 mag when using 125 grain bullets because of pressure spikes.

I have found "Any Shot You Want" gives some perspective on many rounds besides the old standbys.

Now if I could only find some W231 to get back to the bench to load a bunch of 45s to allow more freedom at the range. Its just not fun to be counting each round.

You forgot one: I buy a new manual when it appears new data is necessary.

What can I say, I rely on both other peoples experience and new manuals. It's nice that new data is available on the internet (keeping quality sources in mind like hodgdon.com, etc).

Ken....

Two of the last few guns I bought, didn't have any current N.A. manuals that had any data for them. One is now out, as of the #8 Hornady manual, the other is only in European manuals, which are not very easy to come by.
I spent a lot of time on the internet, sourcing info for both, asking powder and bullet mfgrs what they had, for unpublished info. Takes a lot of time, but, learned a lot along the way.
Then going thru the process of establishing verifiable startup loads for powders, takes time. The one is still an ongoing process, to figure out where to set tha parameters on some powders with possible bullet combos.
Manuals do make life a lot simpler.

Many times I've contacted the bullet manufacturer for load data. All that I have spoken with have been more than happy to share their loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Heat:
You forgot one: I buy a new manual when it appears new data is necessary.

What can I say, I rely on both other peoples experience and new manuals. It's nice that new data is available on the internet (keeping quality sources in mind like hodgdon.com, etc).

Ken....

Heat,
I have had to resort to buying decades old manuals several times to find data on old, obscure and obsolete cartridges. I feel it is better to have old data than to start out guessing.

I just fill the case with whatever powder I have laying around all the way to the top. Then pour out just enough to where it looks like the bullet will seat OK and go for it. I can always adjust downward if I choose. No manual of anykind needed.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

I purchased manuals years ago as a newbie and this was before the WWW

I now get all of my data on-line

Heck if a cartridge isn't in Lyman's 45th (or the last printing edition of Speer #10) then it isn't worth bothering about anyway!

The only time I've needed to reference outside of those is when all you could get in Britain was Nobel powder and in the late 1990s for Vihtavouri powders and the new Trail Boss powder just last year, 2012.

Other than that I use the free manuals that used to be given away by Hodgdon and Hercules.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
I just fill the case with whatever powder I have laying around all the way to the top. Then pour out just enough to where it looks like the bullet will seat OK and go for it. I can always adjust downward if I choose. No manual of anykind needed.

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member

Did you live close to Winslow, Az a long time back?

quote:

I buy each new manual that is published

But onely for the bullets I use

Nos, Horn, Speer.

The rest I get from the powder sites...

mainly 45 Colt Lead loads

Snake

My only problem is 2 volume set when the second volume has no loading data (Hornady).
I guess it is still that way.