Has anyone tried this? Can it be done without blowing something off?

It seems like a lot of effort for the small gain but as long as you use a similar lead/copper bullet It wouldn't scare me. Don't add a Barnes or other mostly solid copper bullet.

That is exactly the bullet I was thinking of (Barnes)albeit in the banded solid flat point version. The bands should compensate for the different construction. 270 gn @ 2880 fps and 300 gn @ 2700 fps doesn´t seem all that small a difference to me.

C'mon, somebody must have tried this. I know you are all kids at heart who can't resist playing with firecrackers.
I´ll have the componants to try it in another couple months and if I still have all my fingers I'll write to you about it.

There is a reason your supposed to work up a load!!

But hey Argentina is far from the US. Go for it and post your results. Shoot, if you going to take a risk of blowing up a gun, might as well go all out. Put a solid X in there.

I wouldn't try it. The light mag/heavy mag ammo is specialty stuff. There may be no room for error.

What about removing a grain or 2 of powder and then working back up in half grain increments?

John Air,

This is a really bad idea. Just mentioning it will advertise it and get some fool to try it.

Instead of asking about stupid things like this and goading someone to "play with firecrackers" why don't you do it yourself?

re-read my third post this thread and you´ll have an answer to your own question. BTW do you know for a fact that this is a bad idea and if so where did you get your info? Also I will ask whatever I please and if you don´t like it GFY.

quote:

BTW do you know for a fact that this is a bad idea

Where reloading is concerned,if you aren't fairly sure that something is safe,it is usually a bad idea to attempt it.

I wouldn't sit at the bench to try this experiment. If you have an old rifle that's ready to start a new life as a lamp post on hand you can rig something up to let you pull the trigger from a distance.

I've seen at last one gun rag publish an experiment of progressively hotter loads, to the point where they blow the action to pieces.

If it were my money and my face behind the trigger, I'd leave it alone. But then if we were all like me we wouldn't have airplanes today, or Darwin Awards.

So we are in agreement that attempting a reload without sufficient research and or information is a bad idea. Now back to the original question; do you have any information that substantiates this particular reload as a bad idea?

I saw that article and was planning on a similar rig for the first shots to determine by case head expansion and visual inspection of case as well as resistance to bolt lift if this is a dangerous load. Also I am concerned with the mention of "special loading procedures" that Hornady refers to in their literature.

John Air,
It can work, with some strong caveats to keep in mind.
I would stick to lead cored ammunition (eg Nosler Partition). The friction, acceleration and resistance to deformation by the rifling characteristics of monometal bullets is very much different than that of the Hornady bullets.

Make sure your new bullet choice is seated into the case exactly the same depth as that which it is replacing. The powder charges are very compressed. Trying to put more bullet shank into an essentially set space will give you a bulged case. The bullets will get spit out no matter how hard the crimp. A short shank will leave a small air space. When the fuel gets torched off there will be increased turbulence, and the pressure wave will smack into the bullet base at full force rather than smoothly accelerate the bullet upward.

You will likely be dissapointed in the accuracy of your new franken-cartridge. Everything in ballistics is a compromise. These juiced up offerings (Hornady Light/Heavy Magnum loadings and their Federal counterparts) usually sacrifice accuracy to obtain a few more fps.

You can come pretty close to these ballistics by using the Vihtavouri 500 series powders and a looooong drop tube. Don't over compress. When I get my ballistics lab completed you can send samples to me and I will pressure test them for you for a fair fee.

When I do a ballistics consulting job for a client I often have to go into terra incognita (an unknown land). I use computer simulations, a SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) and a long string to pull the trigger. I blow up guns sometimes. In fact sometimes I am paid to blow up guns.

When I load for myself, and as I am developing a line of commercial safari type ammunition I start low and work up carefully. I record a pressure tracing for each and every load. I stop when I achieve good accuracy with a load that will be consistent at all temperatures and will not even get close to the redline at 120 - 130 degrees. The results are "boring", but I have had a pistol blow up in my hand from an out of battery discharge. It isn't any fun.

Before you do this, I urge you to make a thorough study of the chemistry and physics of combustion in the rifle chamber. That is slow and dry reading, but it will allow you to make more informed decisions when you play around with this.


Then get a long string and a strain gauge pressure monitoring system. The string is $1.99, the strain gauge system (if you already have a newer laptop) is about $300.00. the peace of mind is priceless.

lawndart.

Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about! This is the kind of info I was after. Tried to send a PM but this new software tells me I don't have permission. Perhaps you could visit my web site by clicking on the signature at the foot of my posts and contact me that way. I am interested in how much you would charge to do this.

Federal high energy with the trophy bonded (solid shank) 300 gn is listed at 2600 fps. Disappointing.
Still, the banded barnes might do better and reach the 2700 mark.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
...but I have had a pistol blow up in my hand from an out of battery discharge. It isn't any fun...

Any chance that was a Glock? A buddy of mine blew his up a couple of weeks ago. Out of battery discharge.

H. C.

John,
here's your answer...

pull the bullet off a heavy mag, dump the powder


and TRY to get it all back in.

Would I EVER "recap" a bullet?

nah, i have a slightly higher self preservation instinct

jeffe

John,
Please stand up! Get off the computer and walk outside! Please repeat this when you feel this "replacing bullets on Hornady Magnum Ammo" urge.

Option 2

Take the ammo to the range and shoot it. You have now pulled all the bullets and you may put what ever primer, powder, bullet you'd like into the fired cases.

Option 3

Sell the ammo, buy a good bottle of scotch and enjoy a few of those beautiful Argentine evening with a good meal and whisky.



Best regards,

quote:

Originally posted by JohnAir:
re-read my third post this thread and you´ll have an answer to your own question. BTW do you know for a fact that this is a bad idea and if so where did you get your info? Also I will ask whatever I please and if you don´t like it GFY.

Savage99,

I'm sorry that a conational like this "wannabe PH" treat you in this manner.
Hopefully, not all argentinians are like him...

He exhibits this typical "macho style" that like to confronts on everyone that doesn't agree with his opinions, and in doing so he only reflects his very poor educational background...well he is just a car-washer in Córdoba...trying to make an impression

BTW, your advice is very sound and should be taken into account. Especially since many top notch writers warned that many years ago.

quote:

Any chance that was a Glock? A buddy of mine blew his up a couple of weeks ago. Out of battery discharge.

That would be the brand. Mine was a model 21 (45 ACP).

lawndart

There simply isn't that much advantage to a Barnes over a Hornady IMO, as long as you follow a soft with a solid...Most Hornadys are a tad soft IMO but apparantly the 458 Hornady soft is not...It is fine for a broadside shot on Buffalo and kills very well...if not broadside use a HOrnady Encapsulated solid they are gaining an excellent reputation..

When you pull a bullet you always expand the case a bit and the bullet you use to replace it will be loose as a rule unless you run it back through the die...

Your suggestion IMO is an exercise in futility...either use the ammo as is or load your own the way you want it....

I think there are a couple of very good points in the posts here. First jeffe's post about getting the powder back in the case is a good one. I tried to replace the Hornady bullet with a Partition in some Light Mag stuff, I was just looking and was not going to shoot it, and you will most likely not be able to seat the other bullet on the powder charge. If you take out some powder, you will not even be able to put it all back in the case no matter what method you try. Second is Atkinson's point on resizing. If you do not resize the neck to hold the new bullet, it will not stay in the case with the compressed load.

Tried it, both did not allow the bullet to stay in the case. I just wanted to see the new stuff when it first came out. I would never shoot one personally.

Mr. Atkinson summed it up nicely, "an exercise in futility" and "not much advantage". Thanks to all who shared their knowledge and experience. I think I will just shoot it "as is" and if I feel the urge for more power I can always use my .416 Rigby.

Just rechamber to 375 Weatherby Magnum. You can then safely shoot your choice of 300g bullets at 2700 fps or 350g Woodleighs at 2550 fps. You can stil shoot 375 H&H ammo safely through a 375 Weatherby Magnum chamber (Not 378!!!)


Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Just rechamber to 375 Weatherby Magnum. You can then safely shoot your choice of 300g bullets at 2700 fps or 350g Woodleighs at 2550 fps. You can stil shoot 375 H&H ammo safely through a 375 Weatherby Magnum chamber (Not 378!!!)


Chuck

Good idea except then he'd want to recap .375 Weatherby heavy mags!.....for some folks it's never enough!

There isn't a single animal on the planet that a .375 H&H prudently handloaded won't kill instantly given good placement.

I once foolishly substituted Barnes 165-grain "X" bullets in lieu of the standard PSPBT 165's in some Federal High-Energy .30/'06 rounds. Fortunately, there were no dire consequences-not even a flattened primer........ Never did it with the Hornadys, however.

(BTW, all this "lite magnum/hi-energy stuff is SUPPOSED tooperate at SAAMI standard pressures.........)

i have been doing it for years with the federal high enegy 06 ammo, and despite what some say you can get all the powder back in the case and seat the bullet!!
Daniel

as an example of how much trouble you can get into...

In a 30-06 50grains of IMR4064.

In a Remington case a 165gr Sierra is a mild load
In a winchester case a 165gr Nosler ballistic tip is also a mild load.

a 165gr Nosler in the thicker walled remington case will result in cratered primers

In a factory round that probably craters the primers in most rifles I'd be real hesitant about swapping bullets the way you describe...