He has three Remington guns:

300 rem ultra mag
7mm rem mag
.280 rem

The 300 RUM he will be using this next fall for moose in Alaska for sure. I recommend he use the 180 Barnes X with the XLC coating.

For the other two guns he will be shooting cow elk and deer. I have had very good luck with the SST so far and I recommend the 139 SST for the .280. Since logically he will be using the 7mm rem mag for his elk hunting, I think the 150 Partition would fit the bill nicely.

As far as powders go I was thinking of going with a standard of Reloader 22 for all three. If the gun/powder/bullet work for all three guns, then I can just get an 5# keg for all three.

I also wonder how much I should charge him for all of this. He wants to have 500 rounds for each gun, total will be over 1500 rounds after development. That adds up to a lot of work on my part, but I want to be fair, not to mention it is fun for me to reload.

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Monyhunter

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When in doubt, do a nuclear strike.

If a simple Waiver of Liability agreement is sufficient to protect you, charge him about 65-75% of the cost of factory ammo.

He'll still get a deal, you'll make some cash, and hopefully you'll both be satisfied.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

Reloading for someone else is just not a good idea!

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

Look at worse case scenario. His gun blows up and kills him. He signed a liability waiver. Wife goes to a lawyer saying she didn't sign one, lawyer and judge agree and you still get sued for everything your worth.

I personally wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole. Just not worth the risk IMHO.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

I have had a few people ask me to reload for them. I did so free of charge and with them watching my every step. All loads were very safe loads and I inspected and sometimes cleaned their gun first. As Hot Core stated, it is not a great idea to reload for other folks. On the other hand - as long as nothing bad happens, it is a brilliant idea.

This is a big project in any event. Your approach to load development seems to be spot on. You may want to consider a cost plus basis. Calculate the insurance policy cost, component cost, and then add the cost for your time. As George stated, you should be in the 75% price range for factory ammo.

Not to mention a federal and state tax number, and a business license.

Your friend, on the other hand, seems to want to shoot custom ammunition tailored to his guns. If it were my friend, I would try to accomodate him, but to protect yourself from any number of potential downsides do it this way:

1. Accept no money from him.

2. Have him buy all of the componets. Provide none of them from your own stock.

3. Fire all work-up loads yourself, as well as several of any load you settle on as a "production load". Have him also fire and approve of the production loads.

4. Have him write you a letter thanking you for the "favor" he asked you for in helping him in loading HIS ammunition and telling you that he's really proud of his ammunition and confident in it after having shot a number of rounds in each gun.

5. If he wants to compensate you, he can give you some extra componets.

Just make sure he buys ENOUGH supplies (hint, hint).

I only load for my father-in-law, and even then he's watches me load his stuff. Every run, I end up with extra 55 gr B-tips, 4064, 7828, and primers. Somehow there's never any of those things left by the time he needs another batch.......... FWIW, Dutch.

Great advice all of you. Thank you very much.

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Monyhunter

RSY

Eddie

a. be subjected to his criticism at work
b. be sued
c. lose your job, it happens, kinda like sex with a coworker
d. all of the above

I don't know about you but my life is crazy enough without these types of problems. If he can afford to pay you he can afford to buy his own setup and learn or is he saying his time is more valuable than yours, in a roundabout way of course.

RJS

So, unless you are willing to do this as a properly licensed and insured business, it�s time to take two aspirin and think of something else!
In short you are gambling your freedom, your right to own firearms and your financial future on this venture.

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Abe

If everyone thought like me, I'd be a damn fool to think any differently!

If he stumbles and gets some mud in his bbl and the gun blows you will become a "also named".

It's too bad.

quote:

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Originally posted by monyhunter:
An older guy at work came up to me the other day and wants me to reload for him. He is a very experienced hunter, but has no desire to learn how to reload. He said he would be willing to pay me for my work. Let me know what you pros think about this so far.

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This is really a no brainer.

Now that premium ammo is available. Just help him pick ammo with suitable bullets and spend some time with him at the range shooting his ammo in his toys.

You can't possibly be more effecient than the big factorys. If he doesn't want to play with reloading, he should just shoot factory stuff.

By the way, do figure the cost of reloading. He will want premium bullets ($45 per box of 50), new cases ($12.50/50 in .280 $$$$ for the ultramag), powder & primer ($10/50 for .280, $20 for ultra mag).

That's about $1.40 per round in components. add your time and figure about 1 hour per 50 reloading plus that much time on misc tasks. Are you to test and select the best loads? Use the same wage per hour you get at work (and don't forget benefits like insurance and retirement). At $25/hour you could have another $50 per 50 rounds.

Another thing to consider, I have read of some guy (company) which does custom reloading. Send the rifle and they will work up and test loads, then make custom ammo from their records as requested.

Sounds like this old guy is just pulling your leg and trying to make you admit that reloading doesn't pay. It doesn't if you want premium ammo. But I get a lot of plinking rounds at good prices by reuseing the brass and shooting bulk bullets.

JerryO

It is a felony now days to manufacuter ammunition and sell it without the proper licenses and Liability Insurance, you can't trust anyone when money is at stake, steak, and if the old boy is too cheap to spend a few bucks on ammo I wouldn't trust him either.

Every one I know wants me to load for them. I tell them I don't loan my pickup, my guns, my ex-wife, my kids or grand kids and I sure don't reload for anyone, unless you want to lend me your wife while you're out shooting some reloads I happen to leave lying around that just happen to be the right caliber and bullet weight you usually shoot.

The variables in this game are just too numerous to take on any more. We live in Litigious Society USA. You're messing with the Ammo makers, the Lawyers, the Insurance people, the BATF, the Anti's, the FBI, the Military, the Transportation dept, ALL cops and robbers, the NRA, the Rifle manufacturers, THE Spouse and children if something should happen, and YOUR family if something should happen and you though you were just gonna make a few bucks and help an old man out, not to make too much of a point of it.

All I can say is "DON'T DO IT, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT, GET OUT OF THIS HALLUCINATION, STOP SNIFFING GUNPOWDER, GO HOME AND REVIVE YOURSELF, RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN."!!!!! :O

One could say that reloading ammunition is an ultra-hazardous activity. That if anything occurs, thanks to your poor product, you are liable. I don't care what you contract to to limit liability, it will not hold up in court.

I reloaded a long time ago, for friends that
I would, and did, trust with my life.

I think that's a good standard for your reloading situation.

How well do you know this guy???

Anyway, that said, check your local laws, and federal laws. Ammunition manufacturing
is probably more regulated then you want to know...

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

[This message has been edited by Socrates (edited 02-07-2002).]

quote:

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Originally posted by RSY:
Buy him some Hornady factory loads, Custom Ammo or Light Magnum, and be done with it. If my wife knew how well these shot in my rifles, she'd make me sell all my equipment.

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Wife? If I had known how well Hdy Light Mag was going to shoot in my 7mm-08, I wouldn't have bought the equipment!

quote:

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Originally posted by MAKATAK:
Hey, Monyhunter. Tell me when you do this so I can rat you out to big brother and make ME some BIG BREAD.

It is a felony now days to manufacuter ammunition and sell it without the proper licenses and Liability Insurance, you can't trust anyone when money is at stake, steak, and if the old boy is too cheap to spend a few bucks on ammo I wouldn't trust him either.

Every one I know wants me to load for them. I tell them I don't loan my pickup, my guns, my ex-wife, my kids or grand kids and I sure don't reload for anyone, unless you want to lend me your wife while you're out shooting some reloads I happen to leave lying around that just happen to be the right caliber and bullet weight you usually shoot.

The variables in this game are just too numerous to take on any more. We live in Litigious Society USA. You're messing with the Ammo makers, the Lawyers, the Insurance people, the BATF, the Anti's, the FBI, the Military, the Transportation dept, ALL cops and robbers, the NRA, the Rifle manufacturers, THE Spouse and children if something should happen, and YOUR family if something should happen and you though you were just gonna make a few bucks and help an old man out, not to make too much of a point of it.

All I can say is "DON'T DO IT, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT, GET OUT OF THIS HALLUCINATION, STOP SNIFFING GUNPOWDER, GO HOME AND REVIVE YOURSELF, RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN."!!!!! :O

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Mak,

Good job of sugar-coating it so it goes down easier! But Saeed doesn't censor anything here, so why why don't you say what you really feel?

The Gun Control Act requires you to have a license "to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition." 18 USC Sec. 922(a)(1).

The same Act defines "engaged in the business" as "a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured." 18 USC Sec. 921(a)(21)(B)

While I'm not a lawyer and I'm not giving you legal advice, it's hard to see how loading up a few rounds with components provided by your friend, and no money changing hands, would fit that definition.

John Frazer
NRA Federal Affairs Division

Anyone in the insurance business? Dutch.

http://www.safariarms.com

I believe it's John LaSala - he will work up a load for your rifle.

Rick.

Okay, okay, I know it's a serious subject. Heed the umpteen warnings above - not a good idea.

I mean, if some buddy wanted a few plinker, meaning medium velocity rounds to shoot some practice with, I might reload a few WITH him, but, as someone pointed out, if he is going to hunt with them, let him buy factory and then you won't have to share in the blame for the big one that got away or was missed, or the round didn't fire, or.......

I wouldn't wish that on anyone, and, when reloading, it's easy to get distracted, and make such a mistake.

Let him make the mistake.

Sides, unless you've got a progressive loader, I don't think you can charge, or should charge, what the time is worth.

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

I bet the old guy will find something to whine and complain about ; Really , Is it going to be worth it to you ?

Anyone that cheap and lazy to not reload himself isnt about to pay you premium prices for ammo. Hes experienced, and he probably knows, right down to the nub, what its all costing you.

He wants 1,500 rounds ? Well you can bet he wants to save himself as much money as he can. He knows what he can buy a reloading kit for, but he figures why do it when he can get you to. I'd bet hes planning on paying you .25 cents a round.

Boy I'd avoid this one, tell him your press broke............10

Have your friend come over and load the ammo WITH you if you have the patience, this make the liability nil on your part, tho I'm sure a good lawyer could find a loop hole )

Wes

Thanks for the rerun. It did make the point and get the attention I wanted it to. Oh, and yes, I usually do.

Have you ever seen what one seemingly helpfull act can do to a helping hand??????? I was involved way long time ago, in a lawsuit involving one dumass kid who got drunk, rolled a truck on top of himself. A man happened to be behind the kid, stopped and pulled the kid out from under the BURNING TRUCK, then the truck blew up. The kid lived to sue the man who saved his life and totally ruined that man AND his family. If the man would have left the kid where he belonged, the kid would be fried chicken and the man and his family would not have the nightmare they went through to wake up to. You see why I like to sugar coat tings. Now I will stop before I really say what I think.

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NRA Life member