aluminium is also a reasonable alternative -- though i don't see the soviet/chinese switching from steel, like, ever .. interesting .. though when combined with liquid propellant we enter into some interesting times ...

but, yeah.. nah

Nammo norwegian military ammo producer.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...on-acquires-mac-llc/

US future AR project 6,5mm with telescopic cases.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...scopic-ammo-program/

Reloaders have always used brass, since the 1870s, and will continue to do so until they ban reloading. As some countries have already done.
I wouldn't worry.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Reloaders have always used brass, since the 1870s, and will continue to do so until they ban reloading. As some countries have already done.
I wouldn't worry.

I've been hearing that brass cases were getting phased out since the early 80's.

To date, we have enjoyed a symbiotic relationship between military small arms design and the wildcat cartridge community.

I assert that military cartridge design is usually informed by experiences and test results by wildcatters. In turn, a new military cartridge sets off a new cycle of wildcatting, if for no other reason, an ample supply of brass.

Creating cartridges that can't be reloaded upsets this cycle. Liquid propellant firearms would likely do the same.

The end result would then likely be a slowing of innovation and more challenges to get a new design right.

quote:

Brass Cartridges on Fast Track to Extinction?

I doubt it will happen in my life time. roger

So if the Feds buy plastic cases instead of brass cases, that should diminish the demand for brass which would leave more for those of us that prefer it. So disruptions such as back when O'bama was emperor and various agencies bought everything being produced.

Since we have not developed a new military cartridge since the early 1950s, the thought that any new military round will help or hurt commercial cartridge innovation is invalid. It will have zero effect on it, and commercial brass and ammo production will continue, based on demand, like any other commercial product. None of our commercial or wildcat cartridges are now, based on military brass. Of course many of our commercial cartridges are based on the .473 head diameter but that is not a US invention either. It is not 1925.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
None of our commercial or wildcat cartridges are now, based on military brass.

This time you left me in the dark ????? roger

Yeah, I was in a hurry and that was poorly phrased; I mean that, since the .473 head size was developed in Germany in the 1880s, and the .223 head size was developed by Remington in the late 40s, and now that we have a plethora of commercial brass available, we don't need to use military brass for wildcats. So, the military bringing out new plastic ammo won't hurt us.
Hell, even that explanation makes no sense. What was I thinking? Please try to ignore all this.

The Army infantry board designed the perfect infantry cartridge back in the 1930's after extensive testing in terms of lethality, range, recoil, etc... It was the .276 Pederson which basically fired a 115 grain bullet around 2,700 fps.

In fact the original design of the M1 Garand was built around this cartridge which also had a 10 shot clip instead of the 8 shot 30/06 variant. The rest is history as we all know MacArthur nixed the .276 caliber and had it made in 30-06.

This is all detailed in "Hatcher's Book of the Garand" which is an excellent read even if you don't really care about military stuff...

As Jeff Cooper mentioned many years ago the ballistics characteristics of modern smokeless centerfire rifle cartridges have been well established since the early 1930s. In spite of the marketing departments of the various bullet and gun makers we seem to want to reinvent the wheel.

Polymer cases have one problem. They melt. In a fully automatic closed bolt gun like a M4/M16 this is a problem. Open bolt designs it might work...but that excludes most shoulder fired small arms as open bolts tend to make accurate fire from small arms problematic.

For another recent experiment in polymer case ammunition look at the shotgun shells offered maybe 20 years ago...Activ brand shells..they went the way of the do do bird fairly quickly.

More R&D needs to be done with caseless ammunition for military use. We have already done that with tank ammo. The cartridge is made from compressed propellant, painted silver. Talking about one piece ammo here, not separated loading like artillery.
But for civilian use, we will have and use brass for the next 100 years. If I'm wrong, you can ping me then.

Brass won't go away in my lifetime, so there is no use contemplating the concept.

Gotta love it when folks be like : "Never in my lifetime "

Well there we were Rhodesia .... gone ! a black man ruling South Africa .....

What about reel to reel tapes, then those big Super 8 cassettes, the cassette tape and a walkman.... Then came floppy's and the CD ROM.... the blue ray disc..... chord supplied hand tools for woodworking or the chord vacuum cleaner.... all battery operated now and the batteries are getting bigger! chop saws with 60 watt batteries et al...

What about conventional guns ? coming to a theater of war right now destroyers armed with electromagentic rail guns. A conventional gun nowhere to be seen ! pilotless strike drones and helicopters. War waged from a air conditioned tin can on the other side of the world

What were we saying ? never in our lifetime ?????

Not for civilian shooters, I said. Military weapons will continue to evolve but shooting elk with charged particle beam weapons will never be legal.

quote:

Gotta love it when folks be like : "Never in my lifetime "

Well there we were Rhodesia .... gone ! a black man ruling South Africa .....

What about reel to reel tapes, then those big Super 8 cassettes, the cassette tape and a walkman.... Then came floppy's and the CD ROM.... the blue ray disc..... chord supplied hand tools for woodworking or the chord vacuum cleaner.... all battery operated now and the batteries are getting bigger! chop saws with 60 watt batteries et al...

What about conventional guns ? coming to a theater of war right now destroyers armed with electromagentic rail guns. A conventional gun nowhere to be seen ! pilotless strike drones and helicopters. War waged from a air conditioned tin can on the other side of the world

What were we saying ? never in our lifetime ?????

My fellow quacks have given me a relatively few number of years before I reach the end of my mortal coil.

Craven idiots like Harold McMillan, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Hussein Barack, et al, are closet communists, and were all too willing to sell three wonderful countries down the river.

Anything I can do to host a boer refugee from RSA, I will do so.

Taiwanese rifle drone.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...taiwanese-t91-drone/

"We've come a long way babe" some good most bull shit! IMO.. Ive shot more elk with a 30-30 than I have with my 338 Win. both with the same results...AT my age I won't get to see what this guy is talking about, at least I'll be to old to understand it, may already be there!

I wonder what percent commercial ammo is to Military ammo. If Brass military ammo goes by by is there enough commercial ammo to make it worth while to make.

Is commercial ammo just a byproduct of military contracts regardless of case head size.