I suspect that H414 is the same as Winchester 760 and think H380 may be the same as Winchester 748. Does anyone know from an official source whether this is correct in either case?

I was told from an official source that H-414 and Win 760 are the same powder.....however I'll not say where it came from and this must become unofficial.

It's generally conceded that the H-414 is the same as Win 760 but a few insist that it is different.

No other equivalancy of powders is this strong.....

Many folks will say that "this" is the same as "that"...

Until there's official (as you're seeking) notice, I'd avoid any advice of such equivalancy......even though it may be true!!!

Even IMR, AA and H4350 are believed to be equivalant.....and loading data suggests they are at least very similar.....I still consult the source of data before any substitution.

Loading data is free on the net in many places and it's just not worth the confusion.

The short answer.....NO...there has been no official notice of equivalancy of any powders that I've ever seen.

I e-mailed Hodgdon and it was readily admitted that H110 is the same as Win. 296. In a separate e-mail I asked about H414 and H380 and was told they were not equivalent to Win. 760 and 748 respectivly. At least in the case of H414 I believe there is equivalency to Winchester 760.

Thanks for your reply.

i'll buy the h414 and 760, and the h110 and 296...

I don't buy the 748 part, as 748 seems to make more pressure than 380

jeffe

I believe Layne Simpson of Shooting Times magazine said H-414 is the same as WW 760, both made at the Primex plant in St. Marks, FLA.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog:
I was told from an official source that H-414 and Win 760 are the same powder.....however I'll not say where it came from and this must become unofficial.

Come now you act like your giving away military secrets LOL don't really care who told you, but I guess they would have to kill you if you let it out

97 H-110
98 W-296

150 W-748
151 IMR-4064
152 Brigadier 4065
153 AA-2520
154 N-202
155 RL-15
156 AR-2208
157 N-140
158 R-903
159 S-341
160 TU-5000
161 Varget
162 BL-C(2)
163 N-540
164 Big Game
165 N-203
166 H-380

169 H-414
170 N-150
171 S-361
172 AA-2700
173 W-760

quote:

Come now you act like your giving away military secrets LOL don't really care who told you, but I guess they would have to kill you if you let it out

Hunt-Ducks
I have a personal friend that works in an area that has specific information as to such things. I was told this in confidence and choose not to divulge the source. The information is known industry wide and all I wanted was confirmation which I got.

I have a .22-250 that tells me H414 and Win760 are not the same powder. I'll trust the rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty Marlin:
I have a .22-250 that tells me H414 and Win760 are not the same powder. I'll trust the rifle.

I actually knew a retailer (years ago) that bought all his powder in bulk...much of it 12 pound metal kegs at that time....he used a certified scale to weigh out one pound containers (looked like round one quart ice cream paperboard containers with lids) and labeled them as he weighed them out. He sold them so labeled and folks thought nothing of it.

He sold H-414 and Win 760 from the very same bulk container that he bought win 760 in. He was able to buy win 760 somewhat less than H-414

This was in Southern Minnesota and the store has long since closed it's doors.

I also know a retailer today that sells Win 760 when customers ask for H-414.....he tells them it's the same thing.

I appreciate all of the replies to my question. For myself, I'm satisfied that H414=Winchester 760.

There is an interesting thing I've seen in loading manuals regarding H110 and Winchester 296. They will be listed in the same manual with the same cartridge and bullets and yet the recommended loads are different, though not by much. You would think the publishers of the manuals would know they were the same and not waste time developing two sets of load data for what is essentially the same powder.

I have a 30.06 that tells me IMR-4350 in one# cans is different than IMR-4350 in eight# jugs.And it doesn't like the eight# jug stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
I e-mailed Hodgdon and it was readily admitted that H110 is the same as Win. 296. In a separate e-mail I asked about H414 and H380 and was told they were not equivalent to Win. 760 and 748 respectivly. At least in the case of H414 I believe there is equivalency to Winchester 760.

Thanks for your reply.

I have found the difference between H414 and WW760 to be no greater than the difference between different lots of the same powder, IN CARTRIDGES FROM .270" CALIBER UP TO .323" SIZE, but above and below that size range, the difference seems greater to me!

Whatever the situation may be, I treat them as different when working up loads, BUT GENERALLY, you can use the same low-end starting loads for both when developing a new load.

quote:

Originally posted by downwindtracker2:
I have a 30.06 that tells me IMR-4350 in one# cans is different than IMR-4350 in eight# jugs.And it doesn't like the eight# jug stuff.

Hey.....a simple fix...just get eight empty one pound cans and fill them.....

Seriously...eldeguelo's comment here

quote:

I have found the difference between H414 and WW760 to be no greater than the difference between different lots of the same powder,

Has great merit and needs to be considered.

Certain powders are made to the same specifications but are marketed by different companies under different brands/numbers. Just as powders vary from lot to lot, the same powder marketed by different companies will vary from one another similarly, but on average are "identical" powders.

Some of the "same spec" powders made by the old Olin, now Primex facility, are:

H-414, WW-760

BL-C2, WW-748, WC-846

H-335, WC-844 (plus perhaps some AA numbers)

H-110, WW-296

There are at least two different powders that are or have been sold as surplus under the number "WC-856". One appears to be the equivalent of H-380 and the other appears to be the equivalent of H-450. These powders are, of course, very different in buring speed and are obviously NOT both "WC-856". Be cautious when purchasing "surplus" powders and know your supplier.

Two powders currently available as surplus are WC-860 and WC-872. They are both very slow and are sometimes confused as H-870 spec equivalents. This is NOT the case, as both are considerably slower than H-870.

Bofors manufactures powders for both Norma and Alliant. Some of the equivalents are MRP/RL22 and N204/RL19. There may be others.

ADI of Australia manufactures many of Hodgdon's stick powders. An equivalency chart is available from ADI.

ADI-manufactured powders bring a new twist to the old equivalency issues. For instance, ADI is now manufacturing the Super Short Cut version of IMR 7828. This powder (or the regular stick version) was previously manufactured by DuPont in the U.S., then by IMR in Canada. So, it is NOT the same powder, but three different powders made three different places and all formulated to act the same, and sold under the same brand and number.

Hey vapdog

Just pulling your chain.

All powders shoot different from lot to lot, some just a wee bit and some alot my last can of H-4831sc vs the one before was over 100fps turn that into bullet drop and it was about 2-3"

Some H-380 I bought one #8 vs #1 different lot shot same hole with same FPS.

One fellow reloader I know mixed his different lots together we bought a bunch of 1 lb cans from a outfit that went out of business he mixed all his AA-4350 together they shoot fine

Whoa! Need to correct myself in a post above: IMR 7828 SC is made in Canada, not Australia! Sorry for the misstatement.

Is anyone aware of where H4831 SC is made?

quote:

Bofors manufactures powders for both Norma and Alliant. Some of the equivalents are MRP/RL22 and N204/RL19. There may be others.

I kjnow that often I can use RE 22 to replace MRP in a load I worked up years ago, and the results are pretty much the same. But it seems to me that the bulk density of MRP is greater than RE 22, as for example, 54 grains of RE 22 seems to occupy quite a bit more space in a 7X57mm case than does the same weight of MRP. Comments on this??

I've never used either MRP or RL22, so I can't offer any insight. Many years ago, I did use a couple of lots of N205, which was succeeded by MRP and seems to have been essentially the same powder. As best I remember, it was a bit denser than the IMR series.

Both MRP and RL-22 have a reputation for greater than average lot-to-lot variation. This was certainly true with N205: The two different lots I had were so different that I could not even approach the same loads with the second lot as with the first without running into obvious pressure problems.