My father in law is thinking about getting a new progressive press and looking mostly at these two. He asked me a few questions and we had a different take on what auto-indexing really is and a few other things. So I thought I'd ask here. I also noticed that there is a fair bit of difference between the cost of the caliber conversions for these two. Why? I'd love to hear any other thoughts ya'll may have regarding these presses. To me, it looked like the 550 was all I'd want, but I'm not sure just what else you're getting with the 650. For background, I've always used a Rockchucker, and he's not reloaded at all in years. He's also primarily interested in reloading for pistols, but will do some for rifle. Thanks in advance.

The 550 is simpler to set up and cheaper to change calibers. Additionally, to be honest I like doing the indexing by hand as it lets you keep an extra eye on things and lets you back up if something isn't working right and needs to be addressed.

Way back when, I thought long and hard about whether or not auto indexing would be a good feature, but a couple decades later I'm glad I got the 550B. NOw if I was cranking out handgun ammo by the thousands then I might think differently but for me it works just fine.

click FIND ..
the 550 is
4 stations
non-automatic indexing

the 650 is
5 stations
auto indexing

in MY opinion, the 650 for $180 more is a GREAT deal

please do consider the hornday LNL, at 360 bucks, with 1000 free bullets

What exactly is auto indexing, and what are its adv/disadv? Thanks and Sorry if I sound like a dope, but this is what my father in law and I differed on.

From what I've read, the 550 seems like the obvious choice to me. I just want to be sure I fully understand before we pull the trigger on something I'll be dealing with for years and years.

ah... surething...
when you pull the lever, does the head (plate/cases, whatever) automatically move with the lever .. does it rotate by it self or do you have to manually turn it.

personally, i can't STAND that it doesn't auto index, as that is a problem waiting to happen in pistol rounds .. double charges and no charges...

the 550 has 4 holes on top, and you have to turn it by hand

the 650 have 5 holes on top, and auto indexes

The XL650's auto indexing feature is of moot interest if not coupled with the optional electric casefeeder. Then only does the machine shows its potential (I load 700/hour at my - relaxed- pace). I bought mine recently to replace my 23 years old Hornady Pro-7 and have only one regret ; I should have done it years ago !


BTW, to speed up caliber conversion, I acquired extra tool heads + powder die and a second priming unit (= no more converting S to L primers and vice-versa, I just bolt on one or the other complete system).

Andre,
I flatly disagree on you take on auto indexing. forgeting to put in a case or skipping a bullet results in an uncompleted round ... forgeting to rotate an manual indexing machine CAN result in a double charged pistol ..

think about it --- why is the 550 the ONLY progressive press in dillon's line-up without that feature? to compeat with the "cheap" presses

here's some food for thought
http://www.realguns.com/archives/191.htm

I have another question if ya'll will oblige me. How does the powder measure setup work?

Basically, when working up new loads and changing the amount of powder every few shells, is it a PITA with this press, or is that easily accomplished? Or do most of you work up new loads on a single stage and just use the progressives to crank out known loads?

Yep it is a PITA IMHO if you do it with the press mounted dispenser since the case actuates the powder measure. It is much simpler to use a separate measure to work up the load, then when you know what you want adjust the press mounted dispenser for that amount.

the 650 measure work on a slide, which works great on flake or ball powders, but can sometimes give grief with stuff like 4350 or 4831. so if you do a bunch of rifle loading with one you can get a kit to make your rcbs or hornady measure work. the 5 stations on the 650 are much superior to the 4 because you can use a powder check for one station and still have a taper crimp die set up. the elec. case feed is just great, that is until you find a 9mm case stuck inside of a 40 or a 40 inside of a 45, then you find it necessary to cuss just a little bit. i've had 450,550 and 650 and the 650 is THE was to go. but it is going to cost. the add ons that make it so nice add up after while. changing calibers for me at least takes about half an hour so i really don't use it unless i've got at least 100 rds to load. thus for loading hunting stuff it gets very little use, varmiting or range work it gets alot.

I currently use the 550B for both pistol and rifle. Since I have several calibers that I load for, it was the most inexpensive way to go.

If you are only reloading for pistol and need lots of rounds then the 650 with the setup that Andre has would be the way to go.

As far as auto-indexing or not, I load for 45acp and 357 and it would be pretty obvious if I tried to double charge a case, so it isn't that big of a deal for me in that aspect. I can average roughly ~ 250 rounds an hour for pistol to give you an idea, whereas Andre is easily in the 700 rds an hr range.

Jeffeosso,
I never said I was opposed to the auto indexing, on the contrary and that's why I bought a 650. What I meant to say was that unless you add the optional casefeeder, you'll never realize the full potential of the auto indexing XL 650.

I checked the Hornady LNL too and they seem to have improved the unreliable priming system of my former Pro-7. However, over 2 decades of intimity with Hornady left me with mixed feelings and that's why I went to Dillon, after checking the market's alternative offerings.

Daniel77,
Progressive presses are meant for volume loading and are indeed not the most practical choice for load development and dito sample work. Mark did advise you wisely. Personally, my progressive press is devoted for handgun ammo production. My rifles loads are handled one by one in match prepped cases on a RCBS Rockchucker + (mostly) Redding competition dies.

thanks guys, ya'll have helped a bunch

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
Jeffeosso,
I never said I was opposed to the auto indexing, on the contrary and that's why I bought a 650. What I meant to say was that unless you add the optional casefeeder, you'll never realize the full potential of the auto indexing XL 650.

I checked the Hornady LNL too and they seem to have improved the unreliable priming system of my former Pro-7. However, over 2 decades of intimity with Hornady left me with mixed feelings and that's why I went to Dillon, after checking the market's alternative offerings.

Daniel77,
Progressive presses are meant for volume loading and are indeed not the most practical choice for load development and dito sample work. Mark did advise you wisely. Personally, my progressive press is devoted for handgun ammo production. My rifles loads are handled one by one in match prepped cases on a RCBS Rockchucker + (mostly) Redding competition dies.

I completely agree. I load handgun & 308 for my M1 on two 550B. The manual index allows me more control over each operation. Can you double charge, sure, can you forget to rotate the shell plate & cause a problem, sure. It's why we pay attention while reloading. What I do NOT like about auto indexing is the reloader basically goes itno auto mode to & is not paying as much attention. Even the best equip. can glitch & auto indexing presses are tougher to deal w/ the glitch (missed or flipped primer, crushed case mouth, etc.). The manual indexing does not slow you down, it's done while inserting the bullet before indexing the next station. I can easily load 400-450rds/hr w/o breaking a sweat. Caliber conversions alos cost quite a bit more. I would trade off one of my 550B for a 650 but probably just leave it setup for one caliber of the 11 I load for the most. Another press to look at is the Hornady LNL. Good machine too & cheaper than the 650.

Compared to some, I am not much of a handloader because I load only three pistol and three rifle calibers. I have had a 650 since 2002 and really like it, with the exception of loading .375 H&H. Then it's a pain in the butt, because the finished cartridge is too long to allow the shell plate to auto index. I manually move the cartridge in progress from one station to the next and do not use the casefeeder.

Also, the powder measure will not drop accurate extruded powder loads. I load IMR 4350 in the .375 and I basically use the press like a single stage and measure each charge on the scale. Ball powders meter very accurately.

But if you're going to be doing a lot of pistol caliber or shorter than .375 H&H rifle stuff, you cannot beat a 650 with the casefeeder attached. It loses it's utility for pistol calibers without it.

I basically use the press like a single stage and measure each charge on my Pact scale using my Pact powder dispenser when doing load development. I also do this when loading several of the big bores like the 375. and other loads that need filler.
I do like the idea of auto indexing I bought my Dillon when the 550 first came out and have too much invested in caliber conversions to change. Well unless I could get a used 650 for a steal. I load everything from 22 hornet to 500 NE 3in.
I have found the support from Dillon to be unsurpassed.
Jetdrvr,
I don't have a problem with the lenth of .375 in my 550.
Bill