As you know I am new at this site and at handloading.I have a 243 that I want to use for deer.I have decided to load some Nosler Partions.In your opinion what grain should I use?They have 85 95 and 100 grain bullets listed.85 seems kinda light but in a partion???????

I would go with the 100 gr. bullets myself, but that is just personal preference.
I loaded rounds for a friend a few years back with 100gr partitions in 243. Him and his father took 2 mule deer each that year and all 4 were one shot kills. 3 of the 4 dropped where they stood and the fourth only went about 20 yards. Of course they are both good shots and put the bullet in the boiler room.
Does the state you are going to hunt have a min. weight bullet regulation?

Any will do the job. You'll likely find that the 85 will put them on the ground faster, but in 1% of the cases on an unusual shot at a difficult angle, it might lack the penetration of either of the heavier bullets.

The 85 is likely in the line-up due to some .244 Remingtons with their 1-12 twist barrels still floating around out there. I picked up one not long ago which will not stabalize 100 grain bullets and will use a supply of old 85 grain Nosler Solid Base bullets for a deer load in it.

Considering that deer shot with ordinary 55 grain .223 ammunition picked up off of discount store shelves typically fall just like those shot with .300 Weatherbys, I wouldn't have much concern about using whichever Nosler Partition shoots the best in my .243. (By the way, I shoot a Nosler Solid Base 100 grain for a deer load in my .243. Works like a charm. The last deer killed with it was by a friend I loaned it to at a measured 375 yards with one shot.)

I'd stick with some kind of 100-grain bullet at 2900-3000 fps. Someone will tell you it won't work, but it will definitely drop whitetails. I just use ordinary Sierras and all but one out of 12 exited.

My son used the Nosler Partition in 95gr. and it works great, obviously the 100 should do as well but, I believe that it is a semi-spitzer and I don't like blunt nosed bullets in a hot-rod like the .243.

If I really wanted to shoot Nosler Partitions I'd choose the 95 grainers.

However deer are not really hard to kill.....almost any proper placed bullet will dump them nicely.

I'd use the Hornady flat base 100 grain interlock.....even their boattail is a good bullet as well.

There are those that poo poo the .243 for whitetails.....I'm absolutewly not among them. The darn things are great little deer rifles.

I'd never ever ever use a 243 for deer hunting....

First thing you know, is that you go out in the field and kill a deer....

Then secondly you have to listen to all of these self professed "experts" tell you how a 243, won't kill deer, and if you did you were just darn lucky....

And third, that the 243 is only for women, kids, and weanies.....

Or you could take a 243, with about any bullet, 85 grains on up and kill deer with it each season, and don't tell anyone what ya shot it with, and the macho "expert" crowd won't know the difference....

and they won't think you are a pussy behind your back......

( kinda like 'real men', don't buy a pickup with a 6 cylinder in it)....


My picks for bullets are the 85 grain Sierra HP, the 90 grain Speer or Ballistic Tip, the 95 grain Ballistic Tip or Partition, any of the 100 grain bullets, the 87 grain Hornadys ( SP or HP) and finally the grand old 105 grain Speer SP...( my personal favorite)......

Cheers
seafire

Thanks guys.I ordered some 100 grainers.When they show up I will load some and see what happens.I have been loading different loads with 65 grain V Maxes.So far the gun likes em all.No MOA yet but gettin close.Look out groundhogs...lol

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Then secondly you have to listen to all of these self professed "experts" tell you how a 243, won't kill deer, and if you did you were just darn lucky....

And third, that the 243 is only for women, kids, and weanies.....

That's where I found myself a few years back. All of the Macho hunters making lots of remarks about my little Winchester Model 670 carbine.

Well it didn't look like much and it only had about an 18.5 inch barrel. I had loaded up some 87 Gr. Hornady interlocks over a good charge of IMR 4350 but below Max. After getting to the range I bore sited it and was in the black in three shots. We all walked out to change our targets I was still getting some colorful comments about that little rifle. After returning to fire at our new targets everyone was still pretty mouthy. I shot my first target five shots. Everyone went back out to check the targets again. You could completely cover my group with a dime. The next four targets I had the same results and a lot of comments about I wouldn't be getting those kind of groups if I was shooting a real gun.

Well the next few weeks before deer season every one of them tried to talk me out of using that little rifle with their best Macho logic.

When deer season came the harassment hadn't shopped. Every one had their mouth in gear. We’d hunted for a couple of days it was hard hunting the leaves weren’t down and it had been very dry. The night before the third day the wind came up and along with that we had a very hard driving rain.

The next morning I headed for an area that held some good Black tails. The previous year I’d harvest a nice 3 point that field dress in the 180’s. I was working my way up an old railroad grade and I heard some noise above me. I work my way up the hill on an old road. I keep hearing that occasional little bounce but in the vine Maple I wasn’t seeing anything. As I came to a flat and small clearing in the Maple I decided to stop and just really look around well. Then suddenly the two point was standing there looking at me 50 feet ahead of me. I didn’t want to make any sudden moves. He was just to the left about 15 degrees or so. Releasing my safety I very slowly and deliberately raised the little rifle. Now slowly swung it to the left and as the crosshairs met the apex of were his leg met his body I squeezed the trigger. He dropped like a brick.

As I field dressed the buck I found that the bullet had hit its mark the heart. When my buddies saw the deer all of the Macho lips and their murmuring stopped I just smiled and enjoyed the peaceful days ahead and the lack of their words of wisdom.

Don’t let anyone tell you that a .243 won’t harvest real deer.

I too have shot lots of stuff with the 243. It's one of my favorites but when a larger caliber is available why not use it?

This story was told to me by a guy who I met. He is a very precise person and had used the 243 all of his life on whitetails. Just about all of his shots were easy ones from a tree stand at close range into the deers neck. They all went down right away. He always handloaded either the 85 or 95 gr partition.

He made a new friend and she had her own 243. She had never shot a deer before and he was guiding her as that in fact is his profession.

They saw a very large buck just standing in a field not far away. She was a good shot and had been practicing. The 95 gr Partition hit the buck just right in the lungs and it went down. They came up on the buck and as they got close it jumped up and ran off. He shot at the deer and missed it.

The buck ran into the woods and he got help to find it. He is well known in the area and someone found the buck deep in the woods that day. So the lady got her buck but he got razzed big time about the 243 and his ears were burning as he was the big kahuna in the area being a guide and all. This buck was bigger that any that he had ever shot himself. His buddies won't let him forget that either.

He retired the 243's for deer hunting and got her a 260 and a 7mm-08 AI for himself.

The 243 is no pipsqueek at all but I say use a bigger gun if you can.

The nosler partitions are great bullets but my observation is that they just don't put deer down quite as fast standard cup and core bullets. The difference is small but I am convinced that it is there. IMHO.

That the .243 will kill whitetails is not a point of conjecture. They do, and they will, there is no argument. But having said all that, there are better calibers that do a better job of it, purely and simply. I will never hunt whitetails with a .243, but if I WERE going to do it, I would opt for the 105-grain Speer bullet, and nothing short of 100 grains, period. I just believe that even at an expansion of 150%, a bullet hole of 3/8" just isn't a big hole. It doesn't let enough blood out, or enough cold air in, as far as I am concerned. And to me, it leaves very little room for error. Unless you are extremely recoil shy or have bad shoulders, there is no good reason to shoot a .243 or 6MM at deer. The 7MM-08, the 7X57, or the .260 do a much better job, and the animals deserve that much from us.

JMHO...

Sierra 85 gr HPBT thru the ribs, neck or head kills them where they stand and that's all I have to say about that!!

quote:

Originally posted by mdmike:
Thanks guys.I ordered some 100 grainers.When they show up I will load some and see what happens.I have been loading different loads with 65 grain V Maxes.So far the gun likes em all.No MOA yet but gettin close.Look out groundhogs...lol

If they shot well out of your rifle you'll have no trouble at all. I've taken a few with a .243. It's not a stunt. The .243 is lethal on deer.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by els:
The nosler partitions are great bullets but my observation is that they just don't put deer down quite as fast standard cup and core bullets. The difference is small but I am convinced that it is there. IMHO.

yeah, my take on Savage 99's tale either had to be poor shot placement, bullet failure, or just plain old bad luck...

I can personally relate the same general tale myself, except the round was a 30/06 and the bullet was a 180 grain SP Corelokt....

We found the deer several hundred yards from where it was shot, dead in a swamp...

I had shot the deer at about 200 yds, quartering away from me...the bullet had hit it just below the right rib cage, traveled completely thru the right lung, from bottom to top, coming out the breast of the deer, just below its neck...

post mortum, field cleaning it, the right lung had been turned into a bowl of spaghetti....

So that logic would have called for the retirement of the 30/06 and to go out and get a real gun... probably a Magnum from the average guys logic that follows that sort of thought....

but I trust Savage 99's experiences and I consider him highly knowledgable and giver of excellent advise....

indicating the guide went out and got a 260... I can't find fault with that.....I myself hunt with a 260 and a 100 grain bullet.... and I had a failure last season....

deer turned as I took the shot, and instead of the shot hitting the vitals, it hit him square in the pelvic girdle... he went down and went still... I grabbed him by the antlers and drug him down the hill to in front of my truck.. then was inside the truck retrieving my knife and getting on a pair of surgical gloves to gut him with.... he jumps up, run across the road, dives head first into a bad tangle of black berry bushes off a bank that went down at about 60 degrees....

I went down in there after him, with a 45 ACP, since the brush was too thick for a rifle.....with the sun dropping fast... I got close to him and he bolted across a stream still dragging his back leg, as you could tell his pelvis was broken, not the leg...

The fault here...I wasn't fast enough with my inital shot.. the cross hairs were on the vitals when I pulled the trigger...deer are quick animals....

also if I would have had something besides a 100 grain ballistic tip ( which I did have in the truck, but I had been hunting open country and the ballistic tip is the best killer at long range at the velocity I load the 100 grainers at, 3350 fps).... If I would have had the 105 grain partitions ( Nosler European Market partition) instead, it would have broken the pelvis and gone into the vitals...
at that close range the ballistic tip, broke the pelvis, but blew up....

So the fault was I had the wrong bullet for the shot I had taken.... the deer just jumped up, on the way back to the truck after a good 3 or 4 mile hike....within 100 yds of the truck... I was heading back to the truck since it was daylight was ending....

just sorry I lost the deer and it escaped suffering... i searched the area for 4 hours the next day but never found it.. it either made it off somewhere else or it was gotten in the dark by either cougars,or bears....or chased by coyotes....

failures suck!

seafire

mdmike
My wife and I have killed several whitetail deer with the 243. In addition she has killed several antelope and a couple of larged bodied mule deer with one. We used 2 different bullets, the 100 gr Sierra and the 95 grain Nosler Partition.
We used 40 grains of IMR 4350 for Texas hunting, but went to 42 grains of IMR 4350 for "out west" where shots tended to be longer.

Hey mdmike, Any of those Partions will work if they are placed properly. The example below is of a "poorly placed" Partition - "right in the lungs". Had she been practing Shoulder Shots and had placed the Partition there, the outcome would have been different.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
...She was a good shot and had been practicing. The 95 gr Partition hit the buck just right in the lungs and it went down. They came up on the buck and as they got close it jumped up and ran off. ...

Nothing wrong with a Lung Shot if the proper bullet is used though.
---

Between the 85gr, 95gr and 100gr Partitions, I've found the 95gr to work as well as the 100gr, so which ever one shoots the best between them is the one to pick. The 85gr works, but just not as well as the other two.

Actually, I do believe a Standard Grade bullet works "better" in a 243Win than a Partition, because it does allow the shooter to take Lung shots if they want to, or the always preferable Shoulder shots too.

Plenty of excellent Standard Grade bullets which will work great in the 243Win.

Back around 1986 I had the brilliant idea to make up a wildcat that would shoot a heavy .224" bullet so as to duplicate, in a way, what the 243 does.

I designed a wildcat as the PPC's short and fat was the rage. The case holds about 52 grs of powder and is made from the 6.5 RM or 7mm RM but with a case length of 2.0" and it headspaces on the shoulder. I found a guy in Ogden, UT who made me 88 gr Partitions for the rifle and got a pre 64 70 barreled with a SS Douglas twisted 1-9".

It' shot quite well and I soaked some newspapers and brought them to the range and fired a shot into the wet paper at about 70 yds. It made a nice cavity but there was not much to compare it to. Old Ed was there with his Ruger 270 shooting 140 Interlocks and I asked him to shoot into my test media.

The cavity that the little 270 made was twice as large in every way as the 88 gr .224" bullets.

I never shot a deer or any other game animal with that wildcat of mine but wore the barrel out testing loads and shooting pests. I have better guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey mdmike, Any of those Partions will work if they are placed properly. The example below is of a "poorly placed" Partition - "right in the lungs". Had she been practing Shoulder Shots and had placed the Partition there, the outcome would have been different.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
...She was a good shot and had been practicing. The 95 gr Partition hit the buck just right in the lungs and it went down. They came up on the buck and as they got close it jumped up and ran off. ...

Nothing wrong with a Lung Shot if the proper bullet is used though.
---

Between the 85gr, 95gr and 100gr Partitions, I've found the 95gr to work as well as the 100gr, so which ever one shoots the best between them is the one to pick. The 85gr works, but just not as well as the other two.

Actually, I do believe a Standard Grade bullet works "better" in a 243Win than a Partition, because it does allow the shooter to take Lung shots if they want to, or the always preferable Shoulder shots too.

Plenty of excellent Standard Grade bullets which will work great in the 243Win.

Are you saying a Partion cant be used for a lung shot?You will have to explain that one to me.I dont get it.

Read my posts again about the big deer getting up and the other about the wildcat .224 and try to tie them together.

quote:

Originally posted by mdmike:
...Are you saying a Partion cant be used for a lung shot?You will have to explain that one to me.I dont get it.

Heymdmike, No, not saying "they can't be used in the Lungs", just saying they are best used shoulder-to-shoulder.

As Don has mentioned, the small caliber Partitions going directly through Lungs have the potential to allow you to hone your Tracking Skills. It will definitely kill them, but a Standard Grade bullet just works better if Lung Shots are what you all intend to take.

It has to do with the amount of Energy being transfered to the inside of the Deer. The 0.243" Partitions cut small diameter paths and normally have enough energy to Exit. Moreso with the 95gr and 100gr versions.

But you can also normally get good Exits with the Standard Grade bullets and they transfer more Energy inside the Deer as they pass through because of a "typically" wider expansion profile.

That is not a Slam on Partitions at all. They work exactly as they are designed and do it very well. But there are better bullet designs for the soft Lung tissue in the 243Win.

The beauty of the .243 on deer is that is so pleasant to shoot that a beginner will shoot hell out of it and get good with it quickly. I haven't shot a deer for years with one, but started my son on one at 10. He had already shot two deer when he was 8 and 9 with my .220 Swift, both one shot kills. He proceeded to kill at least ten, none shot at twice as well as a 340 yard antelope in Wyoming with one shot. If I have a person who is starting hunting , I take him out let him shoot it, loan him the old .243 and invariably they make a 1-shot kill with it. I loaned it to a coworker this year who had never hunted deer before and he dropped a buck at 200 yards with it and 100 Sierras pushed with 42 grains or IMR 4350. I also have a friend who was a WWII POW, much older than me who a couple of years ago had killed a buck every year since Mo. opened the deer season in his area around 1960 all with a .243 and swears he has never shot one twice. He uses the 85 grain bullet in his heavy barreled varmint rifle with H414 powder. Deer are easy to put down, I don't care how big the hole it makes is, the .243 will kill them. It is a great round, and shines as a rifle for a casual shooter who doesn't shoot much to accustom himself to recoil. This is coming from a guy who shot last years 10-pointer with a 9.3x62 and has been known to shoot coyotes with a .416 Rigby and .375 for practice.

My take on why the big deer got up and ran is that it was not bleeding fast enough. Of course this is basic.

I have shot other deer with hard bullets out of the 30-06 and 7mm RM and had them get up and run a long way too. In those cases it was less than 200 yds and I found them myself but the one shot with the 160 gr Sierra BT out of the 7mm RM was an excellent center rib shot on a big doe at 40 yds. That deer ran into a swamp and that was no fun wading around looking for it as I could not see much blood or tracks.

This is why I favor the "large humane wound" in hunting.

As to the 243 I have seen deer sized game go down over and over again and stay right there when hit with 75 gr varmint bullets along with other heavier soft bullets. The deer that ran way too far were hit with hard bullets in the ribs. If the hard bullets had hit say a shoulder then, even though they were small, the effect may have been enough.

"Don't force it, use the big hammer"

Up until 1968 I used a .243 Winchester, loaded with Sierra 85 grain HPBT bullets, for everything up to large deer.

In 1968 I switched to a 6MM Remington, using the same bullet, simply because everyone I hunted with used a .243 and I wanted something a little different.

Either of those calibers, with that bullet will take an antelope, white tail or mule deer at ranges up to 300 yards if you do your part.

I have shot a number of deer with the .243.
All of the above info is correct to some degree and in some instances.
My take is this...
If you meat hunt or are in an area with deer smaller than 150 lbs then the .243 may be the "ideal" bullet if you want to minimize meat damage and don't mind the occasional 75-100 yd track.
You will be taking high lung and neck shots so you want a bullet that opens fast. Winchester Power Points is an excelent choice in factory loads or purchased as a reloading component. Other mfgs make a similar bullet that would probably work as well but I haven't tried those.
Use the largest bullet your twist will stabilize.

If you are shooting larger deer or are trophy hunting go with something .30 cal or larger.
If you are hunting in the thick stuff slower and bigger is the ticket. The 45-70 is a real show stopper on big deer in the thickets.

For beanfield shooting large or trophy deer one of the 30 cal. magnums would be the ticket.

JMHO

hi guys, new to site. Just want to tell everyone about my findings with the 85gr. hpbt sierra. I shot 2 wisconsin deer with this bullet. 1 deer at 100 yds., the other at 311 yds. niether bullet went threw,even though both were rib cage shots. I also weighed both bullets, 23 and 25 grs. respectivly. Both deer traveled over 75 yds and showed very little if any signs of being hit. I do not recomend this bullet on large size game.

I'd never go lookin for deer with anything less than a 378 Weatherby Mag with a 300gr Partition. Hell no I'll take the 243 anyday with 85-100gr Gamekings for deer.

I had gone through much the same choice as you are making now many years back. I was given my grandfather's Rem 700 carbine in .243. He had killed piles of white tails using nothing but 100g Rem Core Lokt factory loads. I never recall him shooting more than once. When I got it after he passed I tried both the 100g and 95g Partition. I settled on the 95g Partition and AA3100 as that combination was the most accurate. I have taken over a dozen deer with that load fron <100 yds to 250 yds. and I have never lost a deer. Some may have traveled a bit but never very far, as the man said it's all about bullet placement. Yes, I have had lung shots and the partition has punched plenty of hole, they usualy don't go too far. IMO the Partition is a first rate choice for the .243 Win. put it where it belongs and the biggest deer in the woods will be in your freezer.

I know a guy that has been shooting deer for 40 years with various calibers. The wimpiest caliber, 257R, is the only one that stops them in thier tracks. I am suspicious that he knows it is a small gun and aims better with the 257.


The 85 gr Barnes triple shock is the heaviest .243 bullet in that line. It must be becuase 85 gr of Copper is already very long.
http://www.storesonline.com/site/448423/product/TSX-24341



The state of WA requres 100 gr. Maybe a hunter could get by with length.

quote:

The wimpiest caliber, 257R, is the only one that stops them in thier tracks.

Huh? PLEASE tell me how a 120-grain bullet at 2800 fps can be the wimpiest caliber. I ain't gettin' it...

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:

quote:

The wimpiest caliber, 257R, is the only one that stops them in thier tracks.

Huh? PLEASE tell me how a 120-grain bullet at 2800 fps can be the wimpiest caliber. I ain't gettin' it...

He is referring to it as the Wimpiest Caliber, owned by the gentleman he was talking about...all the other calibers he owned were larger bores....

That pelvis hit deer was a badly hit deer that's all. There was nothing wrong with the gun, caliber, or bullet, only where it was hit.

I've gone from a 7mmag for deer and antelope to a .243 w/100gr. So far, it's done a wonderful J.O.B. of one shot kills on a few deer and antelope. I'll never go back to the bigger guns for these smaller animals.

I've shot: 14 elk, ten antelope and near 60 deer. About half the deer, and one elk with a .22LR head shots. They have been the most impressive killers out of the bunch. But, the cost of getting caught doing such things has increased as to be plumb out of reason nowdays. So has using a spotlight, but, what the hell, that's the way we USED to do it all the time on the farm. We always figured as long as they ate our wheat, we could eat a few deer now and then. Things sure change over the years, huh?

I was taught by the old time elk killers to never ever shoot game of anykind any where except thru both lungs. Big target, and no meat to be ruined, plus, it's a sure killing shot. everytime.

Why the hell would anyone shoot game thru the shoulders unless it was attacking you, or a cape buff etc. Don't you value the great eating meat at all?????

George

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
...Why the hell would anyone shoot game thru the shoulders unless it was attacking you, or a cape buff etc. Don't you value the great eating meat at all?????

Hey George, If you ever have an opportunity to hunt some woods, swamps and HUGE crop fields that can hide the Game after it runs a bit - then falls and it is 85-110deg, it will become clear to you.

Choosing the proper Bullet for the typical Impact Velocity at the distance it will be used reduces the amount of Bloodshot meat as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
The cavity that the little 270 made was twice as large in every way as the 88 gr .224" bullets.

I never shot a deer or any other game animal with that wildcat of mine but wore the barrel out testing loads and shooting pests. I have better guns.

I'll ride in wagon train!!! roger

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
I've shot: 14 elk, ten antelope and near 60 deer. About half the deer, and one elk with a .22LR head shots. They have been the most impressive killers out of the bunch. George

Also Geo. the greatest crippler and wounder. Your testement could very easily incite some immature gunners to take to the field with a small rim fire and try to duplicate your wonderfull prformance?!?! roger

I've hunted with a friend for years that took all his deer with a 6MM Rem and one of his son's has a .243 and when there's a shot there's a deer....every time!!!

Personally I've used a 25-06 for years and then for the last 5-6 years used a .257 Roberts.

I'm now using a 6.5 X 55 as I've come to want a tad bit more bullet weight for very large deer that don't give me the shot I want.

I agree with those that say to use something bigger if you have it but for sure the .243 is still one of the great little deer killers I've ever witnessed.

I've seen deer hit with far more power (30-06) and run off as the shot wasn't ideal and this can happen with any caliber and power range. For sure I'm thinking today that anything over the .270 winchester is just overkill.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
...I've come to want a tad bit more bullet weight for very large deer that don't give me the shot I want....

The more kills a person makes, the more this pearl of wisdom becomes clear.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
For sure I'm thinking today that anything over the .270 winchester is just overkill.

Hell VD! 50 yrs. ago a lot of good old boys were saying the same thing about the 25-35.

I'm not even certain what over kill means when you are talking the marginal difference between .270 and 30-06.

Is what you are calling over kill a bad thing, silly, or unnecessary ?roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
For sure I'm thinking today that anything over the .270 winchester is just overkill.

Hell VD! 50 yrs. ago a lot of good old boys were saying the same thing about the 25-35.

I'm not even certain what over kill means when you are talking the marginal difference between .270 and 30-06.

Is what you are calling over kill a bad thing, silly, or unnecessary ?roger

overkill=extra dead

Rojelio

A 243 and good 85-105gr bullets will kill any sub 175lb deer very well indeed. The trick is to take shots at near broadside stationary deer from a good rest.

Once deer start going north of 200lb or further than 250yards I would move up a little.

I have a 243 and a 6mm rem and use 85speers in the 243 and 90gr BTs in the 6mm. I can tell you that sub 150lb deer fallover very well indeed after a short dash when shot with either. I am very recoil conscious so shooting as many deer as I do I like a 243 or 6mm.