I found a used kimber 84M varmint 22-250 that I got for a steal a few months ago, but I haven't been able to get it to shoot better than 8" groups at 200yrds. Overall the rifle seems to be in very good condition, the bore is bright, the crown is fine, and nothing wrong with the action that I can tell.

Below is a list of what I've tried so far, with no improvement in the groups.

- completely disassembled/cleaned the barreled action and stock
- made sure the barrel was free floated properly
- tightened all the screws holding the rifle and scope in place
- I put on a new zeiss 6.5-50x20 scope (I was going to do this anyway)


I'm shooting 55gr v-max with 32gr of varget and have the rcbs competition dies

- the cases have the flash holes deburred, primer pockets uniformed, inside and outside case neck chamfered
- the bullet runout is less then 0.002"
- I tried seating depths of 0.005, 0.010, 0.015, and 0.020" off the lands

I've gone to the range three times and the groups have not changed in size at all. I know the next thing to try would be different powder/bullet combinations, but I feel like I would just be wasting my time since the groups are so huge and nothing I've tried has made a difference yet.

Do you guys have any other suggestions on what I should try before I send it off to a gunsmith?

Sounds like you've done everything except developing the load.

Varget wouldn't be my first choice of powder. Try W-760 or H380 with the 55 grain bullet and make it a Sierra or Nosler. Run an Audette ladder at 300 yards .030" off of the rifling, identify a node and load in the middle of it for some 3-shot seating depth tests starting at .010" off and deeper in .010" increments till it looks good!

Try 50gr Nosler BT 38grs of H-380 and a Fed 215 GM primer.

I also have Kimber and it shoots 3/4" groups.

8" But maybe that's why you got a smoking deal.

The load I have shot in two rifles that would both shoot well (savage shot .25MOA and Ruger shot slightly over .25MOA) was Winchester brass and WLRP primer with a 50 grain Rem. Powerloct bullet over 35.6 grains of H4895. This is one of Hogdon's extreme powders which is a plus.

Your load is lame. Step up the powder charge to the 36 to 37 grain range.

Thanks for the suggestions. I should've included in my original post that I had some old rounds with 38 grains of H-380 and v-max bullets that I also tried. Same size groups.

Any thing else I should try/look for on the rifle itself?

8" But maybe that's why you got a smoking deal. [/QUOTE]
My thoughts exactly! If its too good to be true...

I'd be willing to bet that the load isn't the issue.....4" groups (especially in the normally super accurate 22-250) are strongly indicative of bedding problems.

I didn't read that you had the action bedded....

Glass bed the action and then refloat the barrel and if then it don't shoot then trade it off.....loads won't fix it!

Dude:

I had a similar problem with a Savage 112. Hornady Frontier factory loads with the 55 gr. V-Max averaged 4.85". Their 60 gr. PSP load was even worse. Only one of the four groups fired put all 5 shots on paper at 100 yds.: it went 6.75".

The solution was to switch to shorter bullets. The Frontier 53 gr. HP load averaged 0.78". Handloads with the 53 gr. Sierra HP were even better. When I got a chronograph I found that I had a 'slow' barrel, both factory loads and handloads running more than 150 fps slow. That combined with the 1 in 14" twist wasn't enough to properly stabilize the long bullets. I have found that the only heavy .224" bullet I can get decent accuracy with is the 63 gr. Sierra Semi-Point; the heaviest boattails that will shoot decently are the 52 gr.

I'd suggest giving some shorter bullets a try before writing off the rifle.

Cheers, Al

I didn't know a 22-250 could shoot a 8" group. Have a smith look at your throat. The barrel might be toast which would explain why you got it at a steal. What is the twist on the rifle?

Sorry to hear about your accuracy woes.

The Kimbers that my buddies have had (past tense) have either been miserable or bad in the accuracy department. Beautiful rifles that didn't seem to shoot. There are some of the Kimbers out there that do ok. But the 5 that I've seen my buddies spend time and money to get to group within normal accuracy means for their intended purpose have been meet with frustration and the moving on to other rifles.

Kimbers are glass and pillar bedded from the factory, but from what I've read the bedding job is not unique to each individual action. I think this would be a worthwhile modification to try. Has anybody else tried this with any success?

Its a 1:14 twist. I haven't chronographed it yet, so I'll try that the next time I go to the range and see what kind of numbers I get.

Though I've never had a .22-250, I think I'd agree with vapodog on this one. I'd make sure the bedding was good then I'd go to the Recommended "Accurate" powder in the Sierra loading manual. For this bullet weight, it's 38.0 gr. of H-380 with a 55 gr. bullet. The powder charge range for H-380 and their 55 gr. bullet is from 35.6 gr. ((3300 fps) to 38.0 gr. (3500 fps). I just think that the grouping is way too large for proper loads to make that significant a difference. Good luck.
Bear in Fairbanks

Try a flat-base bullet. My first-test go-to bullet with any new 22-cal rifle is the Sierra 53-grain match flat-base; if it'll shoot at all, it'll usually shoot that bullet about as well as anything. If it doesn't, then IMO trade it off.
Regards, Joe

I agree with Joe. I wouldn't put too much time or more money in the thing. Too many super accurate 22-250s floating around.

The easiest thing to try is to simply replace the scope. Yes, that is a wonderful high-end scope and should be perfect, but if it is new/untried you need to verify that it works as intended. It's so easy to do, why not? Check the mounts while you're at it.


.

I am it the scope or the barrel is toast.

I probably didn't make this clear enough in my first post, but I bought the zeiss to replace a BSA scope that came mounted with the rifle, because the BSA gave me the same huge groups. I also bought a set of new leupold rings to mount it, the kimber bases look fine.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I agree that the barrel is probably the culprit. I was just hoping that I could avoid the replacement cost. I think I may try a different bullet and bring the chrony for my next trip to the range, but it looks like a new barrel may be in my future.

If I end up getting a new barrel do you have any recommendations? I've never gone that route before and have no experience. Hart will re-barrel an action for $650 including the barrel (also includes lug lapping and squaring the action). That would only put me about $100 over the retail price for this rig, which wouldn't be too bad.

the barrel might not be the culprit. one of my kimbers was giving problems & we found that the magazine/floorplate waw setting into the action and not tightening up on the wood. all it needed was a couple washers between the screws and the floorplate

-.025 to 0.03 off the lands

First, I'll vouch for Z-Dude being a MOA or better shooter with a good shooting rifle in his hands.

Secondly, the H-380 ammo he was shooting is about as good of a benchmark for any 22-250 as you can get. After all, Hodgdon did name it after he found that 38.0 grains of it behind a 55gr bullet in the 22-250 was just about perfect, hence the name.

I looked at the rifle myself. The barrel is adequately free floated, all of the bolts and mounting hardware are properly torqued, and it has been bedded (albeit generically). The bore is free of fouling and has no copper residue (we rechecked it with a copper indicating solvent on a clean patch). There are no obvious mechanical abnormalities.

I feel this way, if he can't get it to shoot under 8" at 200 yds using a 55gr bullet at ~3,500 fps in a 1-14" barrel, then no amount of load development or bullet selection will change that significantly. As stated previously, there are waaaaay too many good shooting 22-250's out there to mess around with a non-shooter like this.

The only recommendation that makes sense to me is to true the action and re-barrel. As he stated before, he bought it for a song, so he will be $100 over retail if he rebarrels with a custom bbl w/ truing.

The other option is to sell it and start over. The only problem with this option is that you again start with an unknown rifle with unknown capabilities. Whereas the re-barrel option will very likely produce the accuracy results he is expecting.

Any other thoughts?

Obviously, if his only interest is to own a (ta da) Kimber regardless of the expense in doing so, about his only option is to rebarrel however that can be a crap shoot also.
Has he talked to Kimber about it??
What would they charge to put a new barrel on it? You'd think they would have some vested interest in the rifle shooting well.

I would go ahead and have it rebarrelled.

Kimber's warranty is only for the orginal owner, and only good for 1 year.

My 22-250 loved IMR 3031 and just about any 55gr. bullet.

This is a KIMBER????
Holy smokes, I didn't catch that tid bit.
My advice is don't even screw with it. Shit can it right now & eat the loss. BTDT with a .270 WSM.
Bear in Fairbanks

Before you have it rebarreled, have a GOOD gunsmith check it out!

I guarantee it's not a "load development" thing.

I, too, feel it is not your load development--in fact, I'm ALMOST CERTAIN IT ISN'T LOAD DEVELOPMENT. Yes, the H380 is probably a better powder choice than Varget, but I've produced better than MOA in the .22-250 using Varget.

I would bet money that it's a gun problem--most likely the barrel, but as DaMan stated, I'd have a reputable gunsmith check it out before you get a new barrel. If it is the barrel, nothing you do (except replacing the barrel) will do any good.

Below is the link to a very good article on firearm accuracy that may be helpful. Good luck!

http://www.rifleshootermag.com...ips/accuracy_062904/

Hi
I bought a Savage 112 22-250 back in the '90s and had similar troubles getting it to shoot well.
Finally called Savage and they said to send it back.
I did and they said I had a 'tight' barrel and they replaced it under warranty.
The new barrel shoots like a dream and this 1-14" barrel LOVES just about any 52gr bullet, and most 55gr bullets.

So bad barrels do happen once in a while..

I doubt 8" groups at 200 yrds could be due to this load or seating. Although when I had 22-250 (all factory Savage BVSS, 1 in 9 "twist) it did better with slow powders (RL22 and IMR4831). I suspect this is the rifle issue, even tiny burr at the crown can kill accuracy. Could be chambering or barrel not installed properly.

heres my take on the 22250.Ive owned a few of them through the years and if they wont shoot seirra 55s or 55 bts and 38 grains of 380 they usually wont shoot period

Yo Z-Dude,

Hmm? Let's not re-hash the obvious; rather take a look at your options.

You can sell the rifle; only the next taker may not be as generous as yourself and someone demands their money back as you sold them a POS. Dunno?

I would suggest as everyone else here that the issue is the barrel.

Prior to re-barreling for the already suggested price of $650 perhaps there's another option.

I call this the HALF RE-BARREL. Remove barrel. Chamber & muzzle cut back @1" and re-chamber, re-crown & re-install. It eliminates the cost of the new barrel and you MAY get results (how lucky you feeling?) occaisionally the fried throat area or bad muzzle crown is eliminated.

You may be out the cost minus a new barrel that is still a POS; say $250. But if that doesn't work you've added $250 to the price of a new barrel, too.

Good Luck w/your Kimber.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Kenati had some time and made it to the range this week and try again (were both hard headed and don't give up easily). He had the same mix of H380 and Varget rounds, some of which I seated as much as 30 thousthands back, I didn't have time to load up new rounds with different powder weights.

It turns out he's a better shooter than me! However, he still got sub-optimal groups averaging about 6 inches or so. I'm sure with trying some different powder and bullet combos we could shrink the groups down some, but I don't think it would ever get to small enough groups for me to be satisfied as a varmint rifle.

Some of the bench rest shooters around here were able to recommend an excellent gunsmith in the area. Hopefully I will have some time next week and plan on taking the rifle over to him and see what he thinks is needed. I'll keep you updated on what happens and hopefully have some tiny groups to post in the future.

By golly, Gerry might be onto something as it's usually the first couple of inches in the throat and/or the crown that's buggered up.

quote:

Originally posted by Zoboomafoo_dude:
Thanks for all the suggestions. Kenati had some time and made it to the range this week and try again (were both hard headed and don't give up easily). He had the same mix of H380 and Varget rounds, some of which I seated as much as 30 thousthands back, I didn't have time to load up new rounds with different powder weights.

It turns out he's a better shooter than me! However, he still got sub-optimal groups averaging about 6 inches or so. I'm sure with trying some different powder and bullet combos we could shrink the groups down some, but I don't think it would ever get to small enough groups for me to be satisfied as a varmint rifle.

Some of the bench rest shooters around here were able to recommend an excellent gunsmith in the area. Hopefully I will have some time next week and plan on taking the rifle over to him and see what he thinks is needed. I'll keep you updated on what happens and hopefully have some tiny groups to post in the future.

You are headed into the dark, deep abyss of frustration and wasted money. BTDT. You've already had a better shooter than you confirm the problem. Sell the rifle right now and be honest with the new buyer. You'll sleep better at night. One of the rules of stock market trading is to not throw good money after bad - get out quick. Then, spend the money, and get a Cooper in .22-250. You'll be way farther ahead and have more hair left on your head.
Bear in Fairbanks

It's gonna be interesting to hear what the smith has to say.
As far as replacing the rifle, why not buy a common old 700 if you're truly interested in accuracy. I've owned a dozen or so in 22-250 and .223 and they've all shot well.

I finally had some free time and made it to the gunsmith today, Mr. Don Geraci. He is an very knowledgeable smith and extremely accomplished benchrest shooter. He took his time and looked over everything for me. Surprisingly the bore is fine and doesn't show any evidence of abuse. The crown is fine and the lugs aren't galled.

On the stock he found two small points where pins from the action were rubbing on the wood, leaving small dents. He put it on his lathe and removed a little extra wood to open up these areas.

The main thing he found was that the stock wasn't bedded properly. You could feel it moving as you loosened and tightened the front screw on the action. He put a thin plastic shim between the action and stock at the back to fix it.

I went back to the range today not sure what to expect, although Mr. Geraci assured me it would shoot significantly better. He suggested shooting at the 100yrd range to minimize the wind etc. So I loaded up the same rounds of H380 and 55gr V-max as before for a fair comparison.

Well, needless to say he knows what he doing. It is now consistently shooting .5-0.75 inch groups at 100yrds! The next step is to do some load development and see how much I can shrink the groups. Thanks for everybody's suggestions on the forum.