Guys,

Looking for a kind person that will do a Quick Load run for me.

Interested in using a 285 gr cast bullet w gas check (1.072" long) with AA5744.

The OAL of the round should be 3.075" to get the bullet into the neck as far as it will go without protruding into the case.

AmmoGuide lists the case capacity at 74.2 gr water.

Sure would appreciate the help. May allow me to use this fella for some pretty inexpensive practice!

hmm, mike, where you getting those projies?

ifin i remember, i'll run QL in my lab tomorrow

A quick look and I didn't find a 285 cast. Found a 264 that could be over ridden. That capacity sounds low. I dont' know if ammoguide uses sized or fired capacity which it lists as 80. QL uses fired and not resized.

Guys,

I make the projectiles. Is an old Lyman 375449 GC which Lyman lists at 264 gr made in #2 alloy. Bullet from my mold made from wheel weights and sized at .377" weighs 285 gr w lube.

I got the case volume from a saved AmmoGuide listing. The listing for volume today is 75.9 gr of water. They show the .376 Steyr Improved as an estimated 79.9 gr of water. I honestly have no idea whether that is estimated or measured in a fired case or a sized case.

Oh my! Forgot an important piece of information ... rifle has a 22" bbl. Also going to use either standard CCI or Rem 9 1/2 primers.

Going to use the data as place to start loading with good practices, so it probably doesn't have to be too precise.

You do really need to measure the capacity of one of the fired cases that you intend to use in that rifle for the calculations to be sound Mike.

I've run the calcs for you with a median case capacity of 77 grains of water, let us know what your measured value is and I'm sure someone will run it again for you. It really is one of the most important variables in QL.

 Cartridge          : .376 Steyr
Bullet             : .375, (285), LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch or 78.11 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch or 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 55114 psi, or 380 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 102 %


Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17                 102.0     65.4     4.24    2495    98.7    54096    9566   1.154  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       96.1     64.1     4.15    2486    99.8    55114    9157   1.167  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                           102.0     60.3     3.91    2480    99.9    54965    8800   1.149  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15                 101.3     61.9     4.01    2480    98.9    55114    9193   1.168  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748                      93.4     61.4     3.98    2480   100.0    55114    8776   1.161  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031                           101.4     57.9     3.75    2471   100.0    55114    8254   1.167  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520                       98.7     62.2     4.03    2464   100.0    55114    8571   1.180  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                       102.0     66.4     4.30    2463    95.1    52950    9624   1.182
Hodgdon H380                       102.0     63.7     4.13    2451    97.6    53826    9197   1.183  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame                    102.0     64.4     4.17    2449    98.6    50863    9300   1.193
Accurate 2495                      102.0     59.0     3.82    2448   100.0    54580    8231   1.208  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC                         92.1     60.3     3.91    2448    99.8    55114    8630   1.170  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540                    100.7     62.2     4.03    2440   100.0    55114    8457   1.174  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                           102.0     61.3     3.97    2438    98.9    53458    8778   1.170  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530                     93.7     57.6     3.73    2438    99.8    55114    8477   1.172  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335                        88.6     59.1     3.83    2436   100.0    55114    8242   1.172  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460                       92.2     60.4     3.92    2427   100.0    55114    8299   1.189  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219                         88.1     55.6     3.60    2423   100.0    55114    7901   1.171  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322                        93.7     55.6     3.60    2423   100.0    55114    7901   1.171  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator                86.2     56.4     3.66    2417   100.0    55114    7938   1.178  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230                       90.4     59.2     3.84    2414   100.0    55114    8128   1.187  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                      102.0     60.3     3.91    2411    99.9    52217    8356   1.188
Hodgdon VARGET                     102.0     60.3     3.91    2410    98.4    53072    8662   1.184  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                     102.0     65.9     4.27    2405    93.7    47622    9520   1.225
Alliant Reloder-12                  93.5     58.2     3.77    2399   100.0    55114    7750   1.177  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark                   94.2     56.7     3.68    2388    99.9    55114    7917   1.179  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                           102.0     58.9     3.82    2386    98.4    51689    8446   1.202
IMR 4007 SSC                       102.0     63.2     4.10    2384    94.0    52176    8814   1.204
Alliant Reloder-10x                 91.2     52.6     3.41    2382   100.0    55114    7369   1.191  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200                       86.0     53.3     3.46    2380   100.0    55114    7642   1.178  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015                       93.0     55.0     3.56    2377   100.0    55114    7359   1.196  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133                     99.5     55.7     3.61    2353   100.0    55114    7102   1.185  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                    102.0     63.7     4.13    2347    95.7    43336    9286   1.282
Vihtavuori N130                     93.7     53.5     3.47    2337   100.0    55114    6963   1.193  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198                       86.8     49.8     3.23    2334   100.0    55114    6957   1.179  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198                            90.0     49.3     3.20    2334   100.0    55114    6749   1.180  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder- 7                  85.2     50.4     3.27    2330   100.0    55114    6844   1.197  ! Near Maximum !
 

Reloder 17 looks good

 Cartridge          : .376 Steyr
Bullet             : .375, (285), LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch or 78.11 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.781% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-07.7   94    60.00   2276    3278   40490   7955     95.7    1.313
-06.9   94    60.50   2296    3337   41591   8023     96.0    1.297
-06.2   95    61.00   2317    3396   42721   8090     96.4    1.282
-05.4   96    61.50   2337    3456   43881   8154     96.7    1.266
-04.6   97    62.00   2357    3517   45074   8216     97.0    1.251
-03.8   97    62.50   2378    3578   46300   8276     97.3    1.236
-03.1   98    63.00   2398    3639   47561   8335     97.6    1.221
-02.3   99    63.50   2418    3701   48858   8391     97.9    1.207
-01.5  100    64.00   2439    3763   50191   8445     98.1    1.193
-00.8  101    64.50   2459    3826   51562   8496     98.4    1.179
+00.0  101    65.00   2479    3889   52973   8545     98.6    1.165
+00.8  102    65.50   2499    3952   54406   8592     98.8    1.151  ! Near Maximum !
+01.5  103    66.00   2519    4016   55922   8637     99.0    1.138  ! Near Maximum !
+02.3  104    66.50   2539    4081   57461   8679     99.1    1.124  ! Near Maximum !
+03.1  105    67.00   2559    4145   59047   8719     99.3    1.111  ! Near Maximum !
+03.8  105    67.50   2579    4210   60681   8756     99.4    1.099  ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    101    65.00   2599    4275   63732   8270    100.0    1.079  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    101    65.00   2311    3381   43250   8291     92.1    1.277
 

Wouldn't you want them going a bit slower though? I don't know much about cast bullets but I do know that they're supposed to melt if you drive them too fast for the alloy used. What are your ideas on velocity?


Edit: need to learn to read more carefully...

Here it is using your capacity. I over road the weight and used 285 in the calculation. The override doesn't show on the table but the velocity is in fact reduced from the 264.

   Cartridge          : .376 Steyr
Bullet             : .375, 264, LYM LFN GC 375449
Useable Case Capaci: 64.497 grain H2O = 4.188 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.075 inch = 78.11 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Accurate 5744

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   68    37.80   2114    2827   41701   5593    100.0    1.330
-09.0   69    38.22   2130    2872   42767   5638    100.0    1.315
-08.0   70    38.64   2147    2917   43851   5682    100.0    1.301
-07.0   70    39.06   2163    2961   44955   5726    100.0    1.287
-06.0   71    39.48   2180    3006   46080   5770    100.0    1.273
-05.0   72    39.90   2196    3051   47226   5813    100.0    1.260
-04.0   73    40.32   2212    3096   48392   5857    100.0    1.247
-03.0   73    40.74   2228    3141   49581   5900    100.0    1.234
-02.0   74    41.16   2244    3187   50791   5943    100.0    1.221
-01.0   75    41.58   2260    3232   52023   5986    100.0    1.209
+00.0   76    42.00   2276    3277   53279   6029    100.0    1.197  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   76    42.42   2291    3323   54557   6071    100.0    1.185  ! Near Maximum !
+02.0   77    42.84   2307    3368   55860   6114    100.0    1.173  ! Near Maximum !
+03.0   78    43.26   2323    3414   57186   6156    100.0    1.162  ! Near Maximum !
+04.0   79    43.68   2338    3460   58537   6198    100.0    1.150  ! Near Maximum !
+05.0   79    44.10   2354    3506   59914   6240    100.0    1.139  ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     76    42.00   2316    3394   60147   5902    100.0    1.145  ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     76    42.00   2216    3109   46193   6213    100.0    1.266  

GHubert,

Really appreciate the data. I may use some of it as I do stock BL-C2, RL-15, WW748, H335, and H322.

Was really looking for an AA5744 load ... which I am pretty sure will be a reduced velocity load.

No need to push the cast bullet to highest velocity as that bullet will kill deer nicely at 1800 fps or so, and jacketed projectiles will work well for flatter trajectories. (Though I must say the rifle is loud as hell with Hornady 225s and H335.)

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
GHubert,

Really appreciate the data. I may use some of it as I do stock BL-C2, RL-15, WW748, H335, and H322.

Was really looking for an AA5744 load ... which I am pretty sure will be a reduced velocity load.

No need to push the cast bullet to highest velocity as that bullet will kill deer nicely at 1800 fps or so, and jacketed projectiles will work well for flatter trajectories. (Though I must say the rifle is loud as hell with Hornady 225s and H335.)

I'm an ass, I failed to notice that you wanted to use a specific powder...

I have been back and checked all of the other parameters however and of course Paul is on the ball as always.

It has a raised an interesting point for me, those 5744 loads seem to be below about 80& case fill, even using Paul's smaller assumed case capacity, I was always told that it was best not go below this figure.

Does it make much difference, the reason that 5744 didn't appear is because I specified a minimum load density of 80%, is it ok to go lower?

Guys,

Thank you VERY much for the data!

AA5744 is one of those powders designed for low fill and small positional dependency. Searcy's recommended reduced load for 470 NE with a 500 gr cast bullet is 55 gr. Have shot a bunch of them.

Is very useful for reduced velocity loads w cast bullets.

Thanks again!

quote:

Does it make much difference, the reason that 5744 didn't appear is because I specified a minimum load density of 80%, is it ok to go lower?

Kind of depends on the powder. While I prefer to stay in the 90%+ range Hodgdon gives 4895 low pressure loads stating take max load and multiply by 60% with another 10% lower if needed. That often puts you down in the 55-60% fill range.

Just did quick look at my Nosler manual. With some of the fater powders like 4895 they often list starting loads in the 70% fill. Slower powders more often in the 90%

So I'm not sure if there is a rule of thumb.

Certainly would not recommend such low loading densities with just "any" powder. Accurate's description is as follows:


Accurate 5744 is an extremely fast burning, double-base, extruded powder. This unique powder can be used in a wide range of rifle calibers and magnum handguns. 5744 is characterized by excellent ignition and consistency over a very wide performance range. Low bulky density and superior ignition characteristics make 5744 an excellent choice for reduced loads in many rifle calibers and in large capacity black powder cartridges such as the 45-70 through 45-120 and 50-90 through 50-120. Made in Canada.


Kinda fit the bill for what I was looking for here. Has been good for cast loads in 308 Win, 9,3x62, 9,3z74R, .375 H&H, .376/.416 Steyr Improved, .458 AR, and .470 NE.