Trying to work up an accurated load for a Ruger M77 Mark II in 220 swift. Floated Barrel and trigger worked over nicely. Nikon Monarch 5.5-16.5 on top.
All with hornady V-max 50 gr Bullets cause thats what I like to shoot, and winchester primers. I tried H-380, and 414. Reloader 15 and IMR 4064.

Each load was started 2 grains under Max. ie if the max was 39 grains I loaded 5 each of 37, 37.5, 38, 38.5 and 39. On some I took up to one grain over Max. I started with new Winchester Brass. Resized and trimmed all to length. Weight did vary 5-8 grains on some of the brass.

Now it's not that any of them shot terrible. Worst group at 100 yards was 1.75 inchs, but I could not get a consistant sub MOA group with any load. 39 gr of 4064 shot one 4 shot group that was easily covered with a dime, the next two both had 1 flyer that opened the group beyond MOA.
All shots were off a concrete bench with sand bags and I am confident the problem is not with the shooter or the conditions. I tried cleaning after each group and also shooting 15-20 shots between cleanings...No difference. Barrel was allowed to cool between each group. The weird thing is it seemed that the first 4th and 5th shots almost always touched, but 2nd or 3rd shot was often the flyer????
This gun is supposed to be my long range PD and coyote gun and I have been un-impressed with it so far.

Can anyone see anything obvious I'm missing?? Any help would be appreciated.

Ricky

Yes u r change primers.
Well u did ask!

I've had great success by first establishing the bullet jump that a rifle prefers, then fine tuning the powder charge. You'll need a comparator, a dial caliper, and a Stoney Point overall length gauge with appropriate modified case (.220 Swift).

You might like 50gr Hornady VMax's and Winchester primers, but your rifle might like something different. I'd start with your most accurate load and try different components. That said, I've seen more than a couple Ruger VT's that never broke an inch no matter what. I remember 2 of them very well 'cause I owned them and they drove me nuts 'til they went down the road. Good luck.

H-4895 From 31.0 grains to 38.0 grains
Remington 9-1/2 Primer

Or you might want to try my favorite load:
Bullet: Sierra 50 Grain Spitzer
Powder: 38.7 grains of IMR-4064
Primer: Remington 9-1/2
Case: Winchester
Firearm: Winchester 70
Velocity: 3906 FPS @ 15' from muzzle

Maybe that particular rifle just doesn't like the Vmax. I jave some 7mm/154grInterbonds & can't get them to shoot worth a crap from my .280 or 7mag. Some rifles just like diff. bullets. Try a facory load or benchrest bullet & see how she shoots.

It's possible that a 220 swift in your particular rifle will not group under one inch consistantly. I am certainly not knocking Ruger or any gun for that matter, but the people that do have sub one min. rifles are primarily the guys that post on these forums. Absolutly nothing wrong with that, but it gives others the idea that any factory gun is capable of the same. The average factory gun will not shoot the 1/2 moa. that are frequently written about on this and other forums. A new factory rifle, on the average, will have a better chance of shooting plus one moa. groups then it will of shooting 3/4 moa or better. Believe it or not, some of these guys actually fib about the size of the groups they shoot, nobody particular, just some.

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
It's possible that a 220 swift in your particular rifle will not group under one inch consistantly. I am certainly not knocking Ruger or any gun for that matter, but the people that do have sub one min. rifles are primarily the guys that post on these forums. Absolutly nothing wrong with that, but it gives others the idea that any factory gun is capable of the same. The average factory gun will not shoot the 1/2 moa. that are frequently written about on this and other forums. A new factory rifle, on the average, will have a better chance of shooting plus one moa. groups then it will of shooting 3/4 moa or better. Believe it or not, some of these guys actually fib about the size of the groups they shoot, nobody particular, just some.

I don't agree. There is something wrong with that particular rifle, scope, ammo or some other variable. I have seen factory rifles and other slapped together "customs" shoot sub 3/4 moa groups from .224" cartridges from the .222 up thru the Swift since the early 1950's and nothing has got worse since then.

Change the bullet. The best load listed above is the one Steve gave with the 50 gr Sierra SPT and IMR 4064. If that does not work check the bedding again, change the scope and then have the crown done.

This is the bullet to buy next . It's the Sierra #1330 50 SPT.

Savage99, I have seen the same thing, a lot of guys more then likely have. What are you saying, that any factory rifle will shoot sub 3/4 moa. If the bedding and crown are modified, that gun is no longer a factory gun, but even with the work that you mention, a 3/4 moa factory rifle is more the exception then it is the norm.

I don't have too many rigs that shoot over 1moa,..but then loading and bench technique could have a lot to do with that.

Try some RL15 and 50gr v-max pills. I have started the load ladder with these recently in my VSSF and it is smokin them into nice tight groups.

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
Savage99, I have seen the same thing, a lot of guys more then likely have. What are you saying, that any factory rifle will shoot sub 3/4 moa. If the bedding and crown are modified, that gun is no longer a factory gun, but even with the work that you mention, a 3/4 moa factory rifle is more the exception then it is the norm.

beyer,

His rifle is shooting 1.75" groups! That's not normal. Sure many factory rifles need some help.

My father's Swift (Ruger 77) was a schizoid also until he used IMR 4895 which calmed down the groups. He is using 55 grain Sierra's.

Try 4895 and maybe a different bullet.

This caliber should shoot.5MOA.Check mounts,bases ,bedding,scope.Do you F/L,PFLR ,neck sizing,what dies do you use,standard,bench rest rest.

Savage, granted 11/2 inch is not normal, agreed. But I wish there wasw a way to find the average of say 25 Ruger 220s. I would be willing to bet that 11/2 in. would be closer to norm. then the 1/2 inch that rejpelly says they should shoot. A factory gun that shoots 1/2 inch is a rarity.

I would tend to believe that the rifle has a bedding problem, not at all uncommon. Try the old accraglass technique

Thanks for all the replies, I'll try the sierra 50 gr and the 4895, and also changing primers. But still, I'm not that confident it will change much. It just seems that after 100 rounds and 5 trips to the range I'd have found a load that shoots decent. Or do most of you have to try 5 different powders and shoot hunderds of rounds before you find something to at least start with?

Anybody want to buy a slightly used 220 swift

Ricky

quote:

Originally posted by ricky_arthur:
Ruger

Nuff said!

I wish I had a dollar for every time in the last 30 years I've heard "Never had a Remington that wouldn't shoot and never had a Ruger that would". Didn't believe it until I jacked around with 3 of them myself. Don't have them anymore.

MHO

Normally a gun that is going to shoot will let you know in the first 50 rounds or so.This past I did see a riflethat was shooting 3 inch groups with Sierra bullets start shooting 1/4 inch by changing to a custom bullet. This was a Stolle action and Hart barrel put together by a friend of mine to shoot F class. Just in the past week I had a custom gun, Stolle and Hart that I chambered in .308 that would just not shoot anything decently. I rechambered it to a 30X47 and it is shooting super now. That barrel just did not want to shoot as a .308. And I thied about every load combonation there is, this gun was shooting plus 1 inch on the average.

I believe that Woods is somewhat right in what he says about a Ruger. They are also quite a bit more difficult to bed properly because of the inclined guard screw, and almost impossible to piller bed for the same reason. The part of his statement that I never had a Remington that wouldn't shoot is very very optimistic.

This really ticks me off. Before I got the gun I did some searches and all I found were positive on the ruger M-77 Mark II. One was a comparison of the three Major manufacturers and out of the box accuracy and overall gun impression and the Ruger fared vary well. Well now I go back and Look some more and it seems everything I find says the ruger as a Precision shooting rifle is less than adequate. This gun may have to go down the road and I'll just get the 22-250 in Remington Like I was going for to start with.
The gun looks like a million bucks so I fell for the old appearance over substance. I feel like a Kerry voter on November 3rd.

Ricky

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
The part of his statement that I never had a Remington that wouldn't shoot is very very optimistic.

I'm surprised I didn't stir up a firestorm from all the Ruger fans, b beyer. Maybe they just haven't gotten here yet.

The quote says Remington, but to tell you the truth, I never owned one. Put my "out of the box accurate" money on Sako everytime, never let me down. Custom is another story.

Free floating is not the answer to all barrels by a long shot, many barrels need pressure on the forend to stabalize viberations...Always shoot a gun before you start fixing it...Try some forend pressure or bedding it tight all the way...I would use Nosler Balistic tip bullets for testing in most cases...

Ricky:

Not to rain on anybody's parade, BUT, my Ruger 77 in 220 Swift, is the most accurate 3 shot group shooter in my gun safe. With 38 grains of RL15 and a 55 grain Nosler Ballistic tip, it will put the 3 in one hole. EVERY Time!

This particular Swift is on its 2nd RUGER barrel, the first one shot so well, I sent it back and had them put on another, and it shot BETTER than the first. I will say this though, it took me quite a few range sessions to find the right combination of components. By the way, my rifle has not been bedded. It is exactly as it came from the factory, although I have added a Canjar trigger.

Keep trying, if it still shoots piss poor, call Ruger and complain.

Good Luck

Jerry

Jerry, no one statement covers all, there are definatly Rugers that shoot very well. If yours is that accurate you should shoot a few bench rest matches with it, not much prize money involved but the satisfaction of winning can be great. The way you describe your gun you just couldn't loose, certainly no BR gun will do it EVERY time.

b beyer and woods,are you the same guy???

[QUOTE]Originally posted by b beyer:
ricky, I own 2 factory rifles now, and am certainly not an authority on them. One is a mod.70 and the other is a Rem. 700 stainless mountain rifle, both in 270 win. If you are looking for accuracy in a gun, you MAY be overlooking your best bet, by not concidering a Savage. The way you speak of appearence of a rifle, you may not want to consider one, but as of late they are as accurate as any off the shelf gun. Have you thought of a used rifle, a lot of the more reputable dealers will let you have a certain number of days to return the gun if you are not satisfied with it. This would give you a chance to make sure that it is at least accurate enough to have some work done on it to see just what it will do. I do not know just what the primary purpose of this gun will be, but there are certainly better choices of cartridge then a 220 for almost any situation. The swift is not known for its accuracy, in fact it is known for just the opposite. A 22-250 is damn near as fast and while not a super accurate ctg. it does have a lot better reputation then the swift. If you are looking for just accuracy out to 200 yards or so a 222 will serve the purpose better then anything, and with a barrel life a lot longer then either of the other two. I will admit that I have very little experience with factory guns in the last 15 or so years, I have made every bench rest match that I could and in the last few years cannot remember any gun other than a Savage winning the factory class. As far as a rifle putting three shots into the same hole every time, Jerry owns the only gun ever made that will do that. I own eight bench rest guns that were built by a couple of the best accuracy gunsmiths in the country and they are incapable of that accuracy. Look at it from the point of view that of all the registered bench rest matches ever held, there has never been a group shot that measured .000. Good luck with your quest for accuracy, and ask a few of the people that you have respect for their opinion, if they would go the Ruger 220 swift route. Bob I don't know about woods, but I am a 66 year old retired guy from Maine that is spending the winter in Fla. THank God.

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
Jerry, no one statement covers all, there are definatly Rugers that shoot very well. If yours is that accurate you should shoot a few bench rest matches with it, not much prize money involved but the satisfaction of winning can be great. The way you describe your gun you just couldn't loose, certainly no BR gun will do it EVERY time.

b beyer: If you read my post, I said my Ruger would shoot 3 shot groups into one hole! Now you tell me where I can shoot in a bench rest match that only requires three shots, and I will go and win it! I shoot the rifle on paper three or four times a year, just to remind myself how well it shoots, and to check zero. Some pretty fine Arizona shooters have witnessd this time and time again, John King, Jeff Orr, and Donnie Platt, just to name a few.

But then again I only comment on what I can back up with experience.

Jerry

Jerry, have you ever shot a 5 shot group, and if so where did the 4th and 5th shots go? Believe me I am not knocking your gun or your shooting, I am just stating a fact. You should shoot that gun competativly. Bob.

As far as experience, I am 66 years old and have been shooting since I was 13 or so, I think that I have a bit of experience.

quote:

Originally posted by rejpelly:
b beyer and woods,are you the same guy???

No, but b beyer sounds like a smart fella!! Sounds like he realizes that finding an accurate rifle is lot like hunting. You can greatly increase your chances by looking in the right places. Sure, you can kill a deer in the median of the interstate, but you will have a better chance at the edge of an oat patch next to a patch of woods. Analogously (is that a word?), you can find a Ruger that will shoot into one hole, but you have a lot better chance with a Remington, Sako, Blaser, etc.

Hey, mostly accuracy is where you find it. You can spend a lot of money on a custom gun and not have it shoot or a little on a Savage and have a tack driver. If you've got a good Ruger, count your blessings and keep it, but someone looking for a super accurate gun should look elsewhere.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by b beyer:
Hey Woods, you may be my alter ego. Or a long lost identical twin, but you lost me with that analogously word. Where are you located that you have oat patches.

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
Where are you located that you have oat patches.

Texas gulf coast and South Texas.

The best gunsmith that I know of is located in Bruceville Texas. I don't know where that is, but this guy is good enough that I can certainly mail a gun or two to him.

b beyer woods:You are both very experienced and knowledgeable guys about firearms and reloading.You ask the right questons,helping accuratly others,you are "impressive".Why do you wait until January 2005 before register...

I was registered back in 2001 or there abouts and when the format was changed I could not get back in. I guess there is a name floating around in cyberspace that belongs to me. That makes me think, maybe I'll go look for it. Take care. Bob

I found myself in the member list under BBeyer, but was way off in the date that I joined the forum. The date is actually Dec. of 03. Sorry for the screw up, but I joined about as soon as I got a computer, and thats the girlfriends fault. If it were not for her I would be happy loading instead of talking about it. Thanks, I try to be as helpful as I can. Bob

quote:

Originally posted by rejpelly:
b beyer woods:You are both very experienced and knowledgeable guys about firearms and reloading.You ask the right questons,helping accuratly others,you are "impressive".Why do you wait until January 2005 before register...

Thanks, but I don't want to misrepresent myself. I am new to reloading (about a year) and perhaps that is why I'm asking the right questions - because I don't know the answers. Used to read this forum some last year but it seemed like it had a lot irate discussions, so just posted at Load Your Own (what happened to it?) previously. I do enjoy civil discussions that help me be a better reloader, but right now I don't know it all.

I'd like to buy that rifle,course the price would have to reflect the bad accuracy.heh heh

It was fine talking to you.

I wouldn't let anyone tell you the .220 Swift isn't known for accuracy. I would try a different bullet, probably Sierras, with H414 work up to possibly 43.5 gr, or stop when you reach 3850 fps. The Swift often shoots better at the higher end of the pressure spectrum at least for me. I am on my 3rd barrel on an old rifle built by Ed Brown, and have owned 2 other Sakos, and 3 Rugers, all would shoot less than an inch. It will heat up a barrel rapidly, so make sure to not shoot it too fast.