I keep reading that one of the advantages of the Ackley Improved wildcat is that if you lose your ammo while on a hunt, you can safely hunt with the standard (parent) round found at the local WalMart, in its stead.

This is obviously true, since the easiest way to create Ackley improved brass is to simply run the parent ammo through the gun at the range.

My question is how bad is the accuracy of the rifle affected when doing this? I mean, up to half the case being fired is free floating, unsupported, in the chamber -- this has to have an effect on accuracy.

Seems to me this would turn your MOA tack driver into a "spray and pray" weapon.

What's your experience when doing this?

The accuracy may suffer somewhat but you've got 20+" of barrel to correct any problems.
And, as always, I think the results would vary so from rifle to rifle that you couldn't make a definitive statement. Since this was posted as a question about hunting, I'm gonna guess that you would still hit minute of deer with the non-spec ammo.

I've found very little difference in accuracy. Lower velocity sure.

I've used forming ammo any number of times for hunting. Not an issue. would I use it for super long range? No but for normal deer and hog ranges not an issue.

Further most angular datum points of most if not all AI case dimensions are shorter than the parent cartridge and will not be a loose fit by any means.

You will actually feel bolt resistance when closing on standard factory non AI brass if your AI is chambered correctly

.025 is the difference in the AI vs standard .280

Never recognized there being a problem. roger

The only AI I have experience with is the .223AI and I have three of them.....Shooting standard ammo in any one is not an issue. Some ammo will group great out of a certain gun, others won't.There is no harm to the gun or its accuracy or mine would all be ruined from fire forming. I know more than one guy who will hunt with a standard load and be just as happy as with his AI load....

If I was force to stop and buy ammo for what ever reason for my AI, I sure what to fire few rds before I hunted with it. One reason I always take a back-up rifle.

The neck and throat of AI rounds are not affected or changed, and the parent round will fit tightly, or should; so aside from slightly lower velocity, there will be no loss in accuracy; why should there be. It is not like the bullet is doing anything differently either way.

I find essentially no difference in accuracy when fireforming .22 Hornets in my K-Hornet chamber.

Moving up the ladder to hunting loads, I use .30-06 brass in my .280 (standard) Remington. The .280 case is longer at the shoulder than the .30-06, but I leave a small "bump" shoulder to headspace on where the neck goes from .30 to .28, with the remainder of the shoulder left to be fireformed. This is an exceedingly accurate gun and I find absolutely no difference in accuracy between freshly formed and once-fired cases.

I shoot a 243 AI and have not noticed any change in accuracy shooting standard 243 handloads in it with bullet weights from 75 to 100 grains.

I also shoot a 6.5-06 Ackley where I start with a 25-06 case necked up to 6.5 where I get a crush fit chambering the rounds, and then fire form them to the Ackley version. I notice no change in accuracy with 120gr bullets but do get better accuracy with 140gr bullets -- I suspect because I can load with a slightly higher charge of slow burning powder -- which the 140gr seem to like. Accuracy with 140grs increased from 1.5 inch to sub MOA at 100 yards. Loads with 120gr bullets made little difference -- all sub MOA. Lesson there, is to fire form with the 120gr bullet.

Its also evident that each rifle will vary a little.

Barstool(er)

No one has mentioned the fact that many gunsmiths will improperly chamber to an AI cartridge. PO wrote of this problem years ago and it still happens today by gunsmiths who do not understand the AI cartridges. If rechambering a barrel, the barrel MUST be set back at least one thread and then cut to minimum headspace. Otherwise factory ammunition will have excess headspace and:

- will not have great accuracy
- may not even fire

If your barrel was chambered new it should not suffer from this problem. If rechambering an existing barrel, be certain to ask the gunsmith if he set the barrel back.


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quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
No one has mentioned the fact that many gunsmiths will improperly chamber to an AI cartridge. PO wrote of this problem years ago and it still happens today by gunsmiths who do not understand the AI cartridges. If rechambering a barrel, the barrel MUST be set back at least one thread and then cut to minimum headspace. Otherwise factory ammunition will have excess headspace and:

- will not have great accuracy
- may not even fire

If your barrel was chambered new it should not suffer from this problem. If rechambering an existing barrel, be certain to ask the gunsmith if he set the barrel back.


.

+1

quote:

No one has mentioned the fact that many gunsmiths will improperly chamber to an AI cartridge. PO wrote of this problem years ago and it still happens today by gunsmiths who do not understand the AI cartridges. If rechambering a barrel, the barrel MUST be set back at least one thread and then cut to minimum headspace. Otherwise factory ammunition will have excess headspace and:- will not have great accuracy- may not even fireIf your barrel was chambered new it should not suffer from this problem. If rechambering an existing barrel, be certain to ask the gunsmith if he set the barrel back.

+2 We often forget that little requirement.

Ive had both a 6mm ai and a 257 ai, they shot factory/ fire forming loads very well.

The better questions is what ai chambering are you going to shoot with readily available ammo? I can't think of one that i would have.

Before you say 243 win, PO himself said no real need to ai that chambering, even though he did it anyway. 30-06? i wouldn't, but thats just me.

The .280 is the only one that ever made any sense to me

Ted, I agree on the 280AI but I also agree with PO when he said, "The best of all the improved cartridges was the 250/3000AI."

wait -- you mean you aren't supposed to do it this way?

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The .280 is the only one that ever made any sense to me

yep ... it then matches the 7x64!

still one of my favorite carts

quote:

The .280 is the only one that ever made any sense to me

I started playing with the 280 then AI then JRS then my 280PDK then the dam broke and next thing I knew I had more AIs and wildcats than I had factory.