Is there truly an inaccurate cartridge or caliber
that does not work for earths atmosphere?
Some do better than others but usually it is because of the firearm disigned to shoot it.
And some are just not for long or even medium range.
Even a .25 automatic could shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards if it was put together in a match grade rifle couldnt it?

Good question. I know that some say that there are certain calibers where no one makes a match grade bullet which might be a limiting factor. A cartridge is after all just a brass bottle that holds powder. So does the shape of this bottle affect accuracy? And if the diameter of the bullet is not the limiting factor on accuracy then any caliber should be able to be accurate. Look at what the Olympic shooters do with the .22 short! Can anyone blow holes in Cal30 1906's idea?

Well, the 25 ACP at 100 yds is really not possible. You just don't get the velocity out of that small case, not to mention all sorts of problems with wind etc.

Let's stick to rifles, so I guess with any rifle cartridge, sure.

-Spencer

Sorry, going to alter your question to my response. In the "as made for it's intended use" is there such a thing as an inaccurate round

yes... 6.5 carcano..
I am certain that if you built a match grade rifle around it, it would probably shoot great, but nothing it was made in shot for shite.

just saw a special with an uninssued, professionally scoped, sighted in, hand loaded, etc etc etc...

3" was it's BEST and that was 1/2worked.


hmm, 25 acp in a bench gun? there's a challenge..you would actually have to load it totally subsonic, rather than just barely, as the transition would impact accuracy. and at "barely" super sonic, with horrible BC bullets, it xitions TWICE... bad bad bad for groups.

So, as issued and loaded, the 25 acp wouldn't work in the original question.


I guess you might be asking "is there no possible way to make any round accurate" to be more inclusive, and I think anything CAN shoot... but is it worth it>??

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
yes... 6.5 carcano..
I am certain that if you built a match grade rifle around it, it would probably shoot great, but nothing it was made in shot for shite.

The other way around. With proper ammo, a good Carcano can well group 1 MOA (see the Carcano website). But most ammo is unsuitable, with some exception for the new Hornady loads.

C.

quote:

and I think anything CAN shoot... but is it worth it>??

Me too.

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
Is there truly an inaccurate cartridge or caliber
that does not work for earths atmosphere?
Some do better than others but usually it is because of the firearm disigned to shoot it.
And some are just not for long or even medium range.Even a .25 automatic could shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards if it was put together in a match grade rifle couldnt it?

No, there are only inaccurate guns!

"Even a .25 automatic could shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards if it was put together in a match grade rifle couldnt it?" I believe so, if there were no wind that day!

quote:

Originally posted by carcano91:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
yes... 6.5 carcano..
but nothing it was made in shot for shite.

The other way around. With proper ammo, a good Carcano can well group 1 MOA (see the Carcano website). But most ammo is unsuitable, with some exception for the new Hornady loads.C.

With hand loads and open sights my carbine would do an honest 2" at 100yds.When you think about it that was an awful short sight radius.

There is no INHERENT inaccurate cartrige as modern technology can make up for any cartridge design deficit. Case in point the .308.

well - i am having a problem making a 10 ga with #6 shot group well

I wrestled with 22Hornets for 35 years and finally got my fill of them being accurate one day and just the opposite the next. This was before Lil'Gun Powder, so I can't speak for that. Perhaps if it had been around back then, it would have cured all the accuracy variation.

257Rob, 25-06 and 257Wby Mag can be extremely aggravating from time to time. You just can't always use the specific bullet "you want" because for some magical reasons unknown to man, occasionally a particular barrel just doesn't like a specific bullet or weight.

303Sav was gone before most of you were born, so no need to wham on it. It had enough accuracy to kill Deer located in the woods and swamps though.

35Rem in factory cartridges did not fit all chambers real well. Caused a lot of mis-fires in Contenders at one time. Needless to say it isn't accurate if it does not fire. Fire-forming cases cures that issue though.

But, we are in a unique situation today where we have the very best Cases, Primers, Powders and Bullets that have ever been made. They even make the older rifles shoot better than they did when they were new.

Arguably a Carcano was accurate enough for Lee Harvey Oswald.

Inaccurate can be a product of a multitude of things, barrel, twist rate/bullet weight, stock and ammo.
I believe that any caliber 'could be ' accurate if all the other issues were resolved.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
257Rob, 25-06 and 257Wby Mag can be extremely aggravating from time to time. You just can't always use the specific bullet "you want" because for some magical reasons unknown to man, occasionally a particular barrel just doesn't like a specific bullet or weight.

Personally, I've had more aggravation with the 25 cals than any other cartridge. I still love the 250 Savage and the Bob, but they can try your patience.

The 280 Rem is another cartridge that I've found aggravating. Trying to get top velocity and accuracy at the same time is much tougher than with a 270 (in my experience).

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
Is there truly an inaccurate cartridge or caliber
?

Yes, if you define that by the features that are detrimental to accuracy:

1. A headspacing system that does not provide for a snug fit in the chamber. This would be a rimmed cartride with too little shoulder on which to headspace.

2. A cartridge with a radiused, rather than secant, shoulder. The rediused shoulder does not lend itself as well to positive headspacing (related to number 1 above).

3. A cartridge for which the standard specs require a long freebore (a la Weatherby).

4. A cartridge for which the standard industry practice is to oversized the chamber (most belted magnums).

5. A cartridge that is excessively long for its diameter (the opposite of the "short fat" magnums).

6. A cartridge for which the type of action for which it is designed requires a loose fit in the chamber (like a 94 Winchester).

7. And finally, a a cartridge with an overall length restriction that forces you to use a lighter-than-normal bullet for bore diameter.

So, the least inherently accurate cartridge you could design would be a rimmed-and-belted head with a very long, tapered body, tiny radiused shoulder, inch-long freebore, and chambered in a Model 1866 Winchester and shooting a 50 grain .25 caliber RN bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
Is there truly an inaccurate cartridge or caliber
?

Yes, if you define that by the features that are detrimental to accuracy:

1. A headspacing system that does not provide for a snug fit in the chamber. This would be a rimmed cartride with too little shoulder on which to headspace.

2. A cartridge with a radiused, rather than secant, shoulder. The rediused shoulder does not lend itself as well to positive headspacing (related to number 1 above).

3. A cartridge for which the standard specs require a long freebore (a la Weatherby).

4. A cartridge for which the standard industry practice is to oversized the chamber (most belted magnums).

5. A cartridge that is excessively long for its diameter (the opposite of the "short fat" magnums).

6. A cartridge for which the type of action for which it is designed requires a loose fit in the chamber (like a 94 Winchester).

7. And finally, a a cartridge with an overall length restriction that forces you to use a lighter-than-normal bullet for bore diameter.

So, the least inherently accurate cartridge you could design would be a rimmed-and-belted head with a very long, tapered body, tiny radiused shoulder, inch-long freebore, and chambered in a Model 1866 Winchester and shooting a 50 grain .25 caliber RN bullet.

Back to da roger

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
[So, the least inherently accurate cartridge you could design would be a rimmed-and-belted head with a very long, tapered body, tiny radiused shoulder, inch-long freebore, and chambered in a Model 1866 Winchester and shooting a 50 grain .25 caliber RN bullet.

Leaving out the 1886 Win, aren't you talking about a Weatherby with short bullets?

quote:

So, the least inherently accurate cartridge you could design would be a rimmed-and-belted head with a very long, tapered body, tiny radiused shoulder, inch-long freebore, and chambered in a Model 1866 Winchester and shooting a 50 grain .25 caliber RN bullet.

That was extremely well said

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:


Leaving out the 1886 Win, aren't you talking about a Weatherby with short bullets?

Did my bias against some of the Weatherby cartridge design features sneak out?

Perhaps a better question would be, are there cartridges that are more difficult to make shoot accurately, and I'd say yes there are.

I'd say that the really small cased rounds are more difficult to make really accurate because the dimensions are more critical, and it is more difficult to get consistant charg fills when only using a few grains of powder.

Personally, I don't like going through incantations and contortions to get something to shoot. If it takes testing 1/2 different powders and bullets, and elaborate case prep to get something to shoot, then to me, that is incacurate. If on the other hand I can pick one bullet and powder, and within 20-30 rounds have a combo that really shoots, I have an accurate round.

If I wanted accuracy in a 22 cal, I'd pick the triple deuce over the 22 hornet any day. Not that a hornet couldn't be made to shoot after a fashion, but sure wouldn't want to go to the effort to make it do so.

It's kinda like the guys that use Briggs and Stratton motors on racing go-karts. Yes with lots of money and changing out most of the parts, they can get some power out of them, but they also blow them up once in awhile, as opposed to the purpose built kart motors that make serious hp out of the box, need a minor blue print to get peak performance, and only need a new piston and bearings now and again.

quote:

Originally posted by cal30 1906:
Is there truly an inaccurate cartridge or caliber
that does not work for earths atmosphere?
Some do better than others but usually it is because of the firearm disigned to shoot it.
And some are just not for long or even medium range.
Even a .25 automatic could shoot a ragged hole at 100 yards if it was put together in a match grade rifle couldnt it?

The only cartridges I've seen that sometimes just will not group are 22LRs. While some will shoot very well some won't! Its usually a rifle/ammo combination. Most all 22LR rifles will have a definant "preference" for some ammo while other ammo in the same rifle just will not group. But with all the different ammo offered in this caliber It's usually just an experimenting process to find what the rifle likes.