I have been reading this forum for a while and going through the archives as well. I have reloaded for years but in the last year or so have had the time to actually try to improve my techniques and purchase better equipment to build better hand loads. I am wondering a couple of things and with all the experience this board has to offer I would like to tap into it.

I have been doing partial resizing using RCBS full length dies. First off what decapping die do you recommend? I would like to get one for the purpose of de-priming before measuring my case headspace after fire forming.

I have also read posts talking about taking out your decapping pin on your dies due to pulling on the neck and shoulder. What I seem to have missed is what do I need to do to get the neck resized to accept a bullet.

My current project is loading for a Savage model 112. BVSS. The rifle does ok at 100 yards but I would like to start shooting out to 400 yards (our ranges limit). Between myself and the rifle some work needs to be done.

I thank any and all that can offer some help or tips. Thank you!

WS

You can get a Lee Universal Decapping Die to deprime your cases. A less handy way would be to remove the decapping rod from the die and use it by itself to deprime the cases. You can hold a piece of wood, etc. over the hole in the press and push the end of the decapping rod against it with the press (probably not the way to go if you have a lot of cases to do).

Why not just get a neck sizing die and use it? If you lubricate the cases adequately, it should minimize the pulling on the neck and shoulder.

Just curious; what kind of groups are you getting now and what kind of groups do you hope to get?

Currently an inch at 100. I would like to try and tighten this some before trying long range.

WS

quote:

Originally posted by Whopper Stopper:
...I have been doing partial resizing using RCBS full length dies.

Excellent start.

quote:

First off what decapping die do you recommend?

The least expensive one you can locate. They all do the same thing and are designed so they do not touch any part of the Case. However, if you are doing 17cal, they might not go through the Case mouth.

quote:

I would like to get one for the purpose of de-priming before measuring my case headspace after fire forming.

If you are P-FLRing properly, then there is no need to measure so called Headspace with a "Thingy". Doesn't hurt anything to do it - except the Thingys can be misleading and create confusion. The Thingys have our otherwise respected and highly esteemed poster "Woods" so confused that he even thinks Browning and Sako platforms are good enough to add a $$$HIGH$$$ Custom barrel too.

quote:

I have also read posts talking about taking out your decapping pin on your dies due to pulling on the neck and shoulder. What I seem to have missed is what do I need to do to get the neck resized to accept a bullet.

They removed the Decapping Pin so as not to remove a "good unspent" Primer. But they left the Expander Ball on.

The exceptions to this are the Die Sets with changable Bushings for Resizing the Case Necks. Some of the folks that use them do not use the Expander Ball, because the Case Neck is not reduced as much in Diameter as with normal FL or NS Dies. They go to great extremes to match the proper Bushing with the Case Neck Thickness so the Bullet will still Seat with what they determine to be the amount of Neck Tension they desire. Plus there is usually Neck Turning involved so that Lot of Case Neck thickness is uniform. Some folks love doing that because they are convinced it helps them achieve the Accuracy they desire. (Not all of us though. )

quote:

My current project is loading for a Savage model 112. BVSS. The rifle does ok at 100 yards but I would like to start shooting out to 400 yards (our ranges limit). Between myself and the rifle some work needs to be done. ..

A few more details about the Cartridge, scope and Target you are using would help.

Generally speaking though:
1. Develop a load using the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method. That will save you a bunch of time and components.
2. Develop the above Load with a "Match Grade" Bullet. I've used Sierras for years, but many of the other manufacturers have excellent Match Grade Bullets as well. You do this to Benchmark the rifle(establish the Accuracy Capability).
3. Either adjust the Trigger or have a Gun Smith eliminate all creep and drag. Check it by s-l-o-w-l-y Dry Firing in a dark room with ZERO noise. If you can "feel it move", it isn't adjusted properly. Weight is not as big a deal as some people let on " if " there is no creep or drag. Too light is dangerous to shoot with cold hands or wearing gloves.
4. Get a scope with plenty of POWER. 4x-9x is fine for Hunting up close, but if you want accuracy at distance, you need POWER.
5. Shoot at the corner of a Black Square. It works much better than a Circle.
6. Do lots of Dry Firing.
7. Take a 22LR along to the Range and while the Barrels on the Centerfires are "soaking" in Bore Cleaner. Spend the normally wasted time, gaining Trigger Time with the 22LR. Needless to say, the Trigger on the RimFire needs to be "Tuned" also.
8. Pay attention to the wind. This seems to be a difficult task to master. After 5 decades, I'm still learning about wind. The more you learn about it, the more you realize how lucky a lot of shots are.
9. Develop a good solid repeatable Bench position. Same-E-Same for all Field positions.
10. Get lots of Trigger Time.

That should get the folks started with Tips.

Thank you very much for all the information.

Let me start with clearing up any confusion on the partial resizing. I am starting out with 100 pieces of new Win. Brass. When I commented on the headspace I was referring to decapping cases immediately after the first fire forming shot so I get an idea of what my chamber is (realizing it takes about three shots to get a precise measurement)

My set up is the Savage model 112 BVSS. It has the Accu- trigger and I find it very enjoyable.
I have a Bushnell 4200 elite scope in 6-24 power.
I am using new Winchester brass.
Federal, 210M primers.
Sierra 117 Gr. Spitzers
I have four or five different recommended powders to try.
I am using home made targets that are white paper with a black 1” bull. For me this is the clearest of all options I have tried.

I am starting with recommended COL and from there will play with length.

If this helps for more tips I will be looking forward to seeing them.

Of all the reloading practices I do the brass preparation and precise bullet seating are the areas I need to pay more attention to. The thingy’s you refer too drive me up a wall also!

Thanks again for the reply!

WS

You get an inch at 100 yards and want to tighten it up a bit? I'll tell you that in all the scoped centerfire rifles I have, except a 458 Lott that only does an inch to an inch and a half, I get better than an inch and I don't do all the fiddling you apparently intend to do but, if you want to, more power to you.

The important things are:

1. Pick the right powder for the cartridge (about the most important).
2. You have picked good primers (the same ones I usually use).
3. Winchester brass is fine.
4. Pick a good bullet. Sierra spitzers are fine for hunting but I doubt you'll get the best accuracy from them. If you really want to know what the gun will do, try a Berger, Sierra or Nosler match bullet.
5. Neck sizing will probably increase the accuracy a little but not as much as you might think.
6. Forget the "recommended" COL. Seat the bullets so they're just off the lands OR as long as they can be and still feed through the magazine PROVIDED that at least a bullet diameter of the bullet is seated in the case mouth.

In brass preparation, clean brass is pretty and I clean mine but it doesn't shoot any better. Cleaning primer pockets is a waste of time. Check for off center flash holes and if off center, discard that brass (that will probably hardly ever happen with Winchester brass). Keep the brass trimmed to no more than the maximum recommended length.

You can also download a variety of free targets from the internet and print them off on scratch paper from your computer.

You lost me. Are you saying all your guns get at least an inch at a 100 and you don't have to work at it? And if so are you implying I am wasting my time trying to get the Savage to shoot better? Don't take this the wrong way, I am just confused with the wording.

Thanks for the tips!

WS

He's saying try different powder and bullets for optimum accuracy. You'll have to mess with charge weights and seating depths, etc. in order to see what your rifle is capable of.

Of course I've had to work at it and in some cases pretty hard but I haven't agonized over headspace, cleaned primer pockets, etc. I also don't think your wasting you time trying to get your rifle to shoot better. I was just trying to show where your efforts might be most fruitful.

Much appreciated Grumulkin.

I wanted to go to the range today but 10 degrees and a -5 wind made me hold off a day.

quote:

Originally posted by Whopper Stopper:
...Let me start with clearing up any confusion on the partial resizing. I am starting out with 100 pieces of new Win. Brass. When I commented on the headspace I was referring to decapping cases immediately after the first fire forming shot so I get an idea of what my chamber is (realizing it takes about three shots to get a precise measurement)

If you are using the Stoney Point(now Hornady) Thingy, you may never get a repeatable measurement. Just the nature of a Thingy.

quote:

My set up is the Savage model 112 BVSS. It has the Accu- trigger and I find it very enjoyable.
I have a Bushnell 4200 elite scope in 6-24 power.
I am using new Winchester brass.
Federal, 210M primers.
Sierra 117 Gr. Spitzers
I have four or five different recommended powders to try.

Excellent Scope. Check the Trigger in a dark noisless room and dry fir it as slow as possible.

117gr Bullets? Is it a 25cal, or is that a secret?

quote:

I am using home made targets that are white paper with a black 1” bull. For me this is the clearest of all options I have tried.

The problem with a Circle(aka Bullseye) is you have to split it into 4 equal parts if you are using a normal Duplex Reticle. You could snug the Reticle up so the Reticle just touches the side and bottom of the Circle, but you can have "Cant" in your rifle and it is difficult to know when you are actually at the edge.

Circles are fine for Fixed Iron Sights, but if you try the Black Square, your shooting will improve. However, you should shoot at whatever shape Target you want. You will eventually see what I'm talking about as the distance increases.

Speaking of distance, a bigger Target is of significant benefit as the distance increases.

quote:

I am starting with recommended COL and from there will play with length.

You might want to consider the good old OCL to ODL Method.

quote:

Of all the reloading practices I do the brass preparation and precise bullet seating are the areas I need to pay more attention to. The thingy’s you refer too drive me up a wall also!

A lot of the Case Prep stuff is only done once. Same with Weight Sorting the Cases.

Best of luck to you.

No secret. 25-06

WS

I have found that the Lee primer knockout punch that comes with a base the best tool for decapping brass before sizing. I use an 8oz dead blow hammer and a padded aluminum mold that is much like a super heavy ash try for a primer catch basin. My elbow gets tired of the long swing of a big press just for decapping.

I ran a lathe a long time in a former life.
I learned to see .003 runout. With spitzer bullets you can roll the loaded rounds across a smooth surface to check the runout. If your bullets wobble they will not shoot too well.

LEE Collet Neck Sizer die(adjusted and set up according to LEE directions!) 117 grain Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail, 49.0 grains of IMR 4350 or for a bit more velocity, 53.1 grains of H4831sc, seated off the lands 15 or 20 thousandths and WALA!! The 25-06 is a humdinger!! If the 49.0 grains 4350 or the 53.1 grains load of H4831 doesn't fit your test for accuracy then trade the rifle!(This based on the fact that I'm giving you the doubt that YOU CAN SHOOT!!) BTDT!! GHD..........pastor at the church of GHD and the 25-06! PS: Some statements contained herein are for HUMOR!! If you can't take a joke then.............

Hey WS, The 25-06 is a fine cartridge - once - you find a load they like. GHD may have the exact data you need, or it might be close to it. The Audette Method mentioned above will tell you for sure.

However, not all 25-06s shoot the 117gr or 120gr Bullets well. If you don't find the Load you like, it might work with the 100gr Bullets. Just never know until you try them.

Best of luck to you.

This load is also death on deer. I hit a doe last summer at about 225 yards in the posterior aspect of the left leg using this load and killed it promptly. Kinda a Texas heart shot.

Wow!

I can’t begin to tell all of you how much I appreciate the time you took and the information you shared. I have much to look over. It would appear I will have to schedule some range time, and have to force myself to sit at the bench for a few afternoons in this bitter cold. I hate when that happens!

In all seriousness, to all of you, Thanks!

WS