HEEYYY, I drive a Toyota Tundra. It's not a Porsche, but I didn't know they made TRUCKS.

And not only does my Toyota get me from A to B, it gets me to Colorado, Montana, Idaho, Kansas, Wyoming, Utah, etc.

AND, it has a bed, which is good for dead animals!!

Toyotas are like Vespas and fat chicks, they're a lot of fun...until your friends see you. jorge

OUCH! That was low. But one of the ladies at the office brought her husband down and he test drove mine. He is a 25 year Chevy man. He just bought the 2004 Crew Cab Tundra. Said the drive was night and day different.

OUCH! That was low. But one of the ladies at the office brought her husband down and he test drove mine. He is a 25 year Chevy man. He just bought the 2004 Crew Cab Tundra. Said the drive was night and day different.

By the way, what's a bear hunt run on your place? Where would someone fly into? Bangor?

Doc: Go to www.Bowlincamps.com there you can find all the info you need. Yes fly into Bangor and it's about a 95 mile ride north into camp. The nearest town is Patten. jorge

And since you like to compare vehicles, who "needs" an Excursion, or Escalade, or .....? Certainly not the soccer mom who drives it exclusively on paved hardtop roads around suburbia. Again, marketing, and in this case, ego.

You left out the ultimate example: the H2 Hummer.

This discussion has been fascinating to me. I finally do understand why so many people insist on super tough bullets for elk. I never realized there were so many hunters who believe that the right way to kill them is to shoot them through the shoulders because they don't really care about preserving the meat and never want to track them. Not the way I was taught to hunt, but I guess I understand.

Your website must be down for now, I tried it several times over the last few hrs. Wouldn't come up. I'll try again later.

well agree to disagree on the weakness of the argument. The premiums sell for a reason ;because people complained about the cheap stuff for years and the ones that don't measure up, don't do well . Look at the Scirocco, it hasn't done as well as the AFrame. I know why *I* buy premiums and it has nothing to do with savvy marketing. I learned the hard way that if I'm going to plunk down heavy coin for a trip, I'm certainly not going to risk losing a trophy because it managed to present itself at 30 yards instead of 200 and the 180gr Hornady was not up to the task at that range. jorge

Come on up to the Selway Bitterroot region and pop a bull elk (I don't think the wolves have quite eaten all of them yet) in the chest with a non-premium bullet without touching either front shoulder. Do that for three to five years, and then tell us what you think.
I'm a meat hunter. The first step in caring for the meat is to recover the animal. The first step in showing respect for the animal is doing what you can to minimize the need to have to track a wounded animal. If a long tracking job is required then the hunter has screwed up.

Yes, I'll agree that a long tracking job a bad sign. But I'm reading here that people consider a couple of hundred yards too far. Will an elk hit in the lungs with a plain vanilla bullet usually go much further than that?

How in the heck do the wolves kill them anyway - have they evolved stainless steel, diamond-tipped teeth?

They kill them by hunting in packs, taking turns running them until they get tired and slow down. Then one of the wolves hamstrings the elk. When it is on the ground they go in and rip the belly open while the elk is still alive. They eat the guts and the inside of the hind quarters.

In the winter it is very easy for the wolves because they have big wide feet and can run on top of the snow. The elk have to run through the snow. The wolves run them down in no time. They often just eat a small part of the elk and then move on to the next one.

Come on up. I'll show you some wolf killed elk carcasses this winter. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside and ready to write a check out to the Sierra Club.

The next time I go elk hunting in the Texas Panhandle I'll shade the shot a little back. Up here I'll strive to anchor them. If an Elk goes a couple of hundred yards in the Selway, and you don't have a good blood trail, or fresh snow, you'll get this bad feeling in your guts and say "oh god, what have I done".

JCN

PS I'm not set up to post pictures on the forum yet, but I am emailing a few to you so you get a feel for the country I'm talking about.

Having shot practically every elk I have taken with just such placement I would expect a short trailing job and an elk that has little wasted meat. Having taken the behind the shoulder shot with Hornady spire points and Speer Hotcor's in both 30-06 and 270 rifles I would expect any guide to be happy with the results of these bullets and placement of these bullets. I also have witnessed many clean kills using factory corelokts and power point bullets with the mentioned shot placement.

I think both the hornady interlocks and the Core Locts are far superior to the Gameking.

Core Locks are the worst bullets I have ever used. I get far better penetration w/ NBTs and Hdy ILs.

You can't argue what I have seen w/ my own eyes on dozens of animals.

In slower velocity rounds (30-30), the CLs are great but, almost every deer I have ever shot w/ a CL at Magnum velocities never exited. I have killed a pile of game animals w/ CLs and still use them in my 30-30 but, I will never use them in anything faster.

Good Luck!

Reloader

"Nos BT's penitrate farther than Rem Corlocks? Can't argue with what I've seen?"

Really?

First they piss on Sierra's and now Corelokts? Sounds like a "Premium" bullet conspiracy to me. And Corelokts are only good in a 30-30? At what point in the bullets lack of an exit did the bullet fail to kill the animal? I have used some corelokts myself and though they may not always exit, when placed properly they kill quite well. Use a heavier version if you want an exit. In my 30-06 and 308 the corelokt has always given good penetration and exits on broadside shots on all game under elk size.

Rick300,

I find much better penetration w/ the Ballistic Tips. They have a better Jacket design and are apparently made from much better materials.

I have shot dozens of animals w/ Core Locts and I will not go back, not after switching to NBTs.

On Several game animals taken w/ the Core Locts fired from a 7mm Rem Mag & 300 Win Mag the entrance wounds were the size olf a golf ball and there was no exit. There was srapnel everywhere inside.

I quit using them in Mags after those bad experiences and stuck to NBTs. W/ the NBTs, I get an exit and the game doesn't go far if any.

I thought they would still be adequate in my 30-06, boy was I wrong. Two seasons ago I shot two bucks w/ my 30-06 (150 CLs @ 2950 fps MV), both bucks had the same results I had w/ the Magnum experiences (Big entrances, no exit). I quit using them in the 06' and now I am using the SSTs @ the Same velocity. I have only taken one buck w/ that load but, I got great penetration (1.5" exit and shot distance was only 20 yards)

I Have only had two NBTs not exit and that was w/ 140s @ 3210 MV on two big bodied whitetails (Shots only around 50 yards) and the animals were both quartering slightly towards me. Even on those two the bullet made it through ribs, lungs, diaphram, & liver. Both were textbook mushrooms under the off-side hide. One buck went 15 yards, the other 23. Had they been alittle further, I would have gotten exit wounds.

IMHO, the NBTs, Sierras, & Hdy SPILs are much better than the Core-Locts.

Now the CLs aren't all bad, I have dropped many big whitetails w/ the 150 grain Round Nose CLs traveling 2300-2400 fps from my trusty ole' Marlin 30-30. I get good penetration and good expansion at those velocities. I found a sweet load last weekend: 32.9 grains of H4895 under the 150 CLs for right at 2300 fps, It will stack em' up at 100 yds.

Funny thing, some folks scorn the NBT but, they praise the CLs and I know for a fact the NBT is a better bullet.

Rogue6, you apparently have no/limited experience w/ the bullets mentioned.

Good Luck and God Bless!

Reloader

I bet the new CL Ultras are going to be pretty good bullets.

I wonder when Remington is going to sell them to the Reloading World?

Reloader

Actually I've killed blacktail bucks, big and small with both the bullets you mentioned. If you reversed your experience a complete 180 degrees you would have my experiences. I've had long deep drives with corlocks and amazingly short penitration with ballistic tips resolting in follow-up shots that would not have been neccessary with almost any other hunting bullet. The 3 ballistic tips I've recovered from deer had a bare jacket all the way peeled back. The dozons of corelocks I've pulled out of game still had the cores locked into the jacket.
I will agree with you that the corelocks work very well in 30-30's. Shoot a decent sized buck in the shoulder with that load and you'll find that bullet in the off shoulder of you dead deer while skinning it out. Shoot the same size buck in the shoulder with a 150 ballistic tip even at 30-30 velocities and you won't find an intact bullet in the off shoulder. You'll find an empty jacket and lead dust. Not to mention you just lost two shoulders to blood shot.

Reloader,
Tuesday evening after work I called in an old sow bear (approx 200) and my buddy shot her broadside through the lungs with one 100 grain remington corelock factory load out of his NEA single shot 243 win at about 30 yards as she was running towards me. Guess what the bullet is still going and the bear is being made into pepperoni and summer sausage. If anything the bullet could have used more expansion. Meat damage was minimal. She only staggered about 25 yards and piled up.
Yeh corelocks blow up?!?

Rogue6,

You are apparently talking about the new CL Ultra.

The CLs are simply the softest hunting bullet I have ever tried. I know dozens of people that don't get exit wounds while using them but, They do get exits w/ NBTs (Funny HUH! ). You clearly don't have much experience w/ them.

Nice choice of weapon for a bear! Real safe buddy!


Reloader

My friend shot the bear with cheap, cheap, cheap rem psp corelocks. I have personally never even held a corelock ultra. I have only shot reloads for the past 10 or so years, and I haven't found any of the ultras as components yet. Bows and arrows work just fine on bears to, I bring that out sometimes too. The monster mags happened to be sitting in the safes that day. And yes I thought he brought a 300 win until he pulled that thing out of the case. Well it wasn't close to a first time around the block for either of us, and we both know exactly how a coreloct works on game. By the way a hour befor the bear I erupted a coyote at about 10 feet with my 270 weatherby and 140 accubonds. That was more fun than the bear. I wish that was on vidio. Don't ever try to tell me a accubond won't expand, cause it sure as hell does. Next time your in southern oregon give me a call and I'll take out into the garage. Maybe you'll be smart enough to stop asking about experience from someone you've never met. Then if your real nice maybe I'll take you out calling and watch you evaporate a yote with one of those controlled expansion ballistic tips, that don't over expand or loose there jackets with the extra thick bases in hunting wieghts of course. By the way I am a Nosler slut. I've been to their factory in Bend a couple times and I'll recommend a Partition to anyone. That's not saying lots of other bullets don't work too. Including Sierras and ballistic tips. Corlocks and Interlocks are some penitrating sons of guns. I'm actually pretty excited to use the Nosler Solid Base again.

Well I could probably show you a thing or two over this way myself.

Try shooting a Big boar(350-500#) w/ those CLs at Magnum velocities but, Take alot of bullets cause you are going to need a Back-up shot. I have never needed a Back-up on Trophy Boar w/ the NBT at Mag Velocities.

Funny that you like the Solid Base but, don't like the NBTs. Same design different tip.

I guess you know there are two diff. styles of NBTs. You were talkin' Coyotes so, it made me wonder.

Oh well, Some people are just too darn hard-headed.

Good Luck and God Bless!

Reloader

I didn't say I don't like ballistic tips. I have just found corelock drive way deep with alot less blood shot than the ballistic tip. The solid base acts like a sierra gameking (and its made in Oregon and its cool.) Both of which drive deeper than the BT. I think that plastic tip does an excellent job of starting expansion. I personally like less expansion because I end up with alot of quarter shots.

If I'm ever invited to hammer hogs with you. I'll do it your way no questions asked. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Would you be offended if I used accubonds, they're sort of a ballistic tip?

If I still had dogs it would be an invite, but I don't anymore. It sure was fun while it lasted.

I just shoot them while I am deer hunting now. I was able to get three last year and the meat was rank, I gave them away. It depends on what they eat, sometimes wild hogs make great table fare.

I believe the Accubonds would work great. I have been thinking about trying them (140s) in 7mm Weatherby Mag at around 3350 or so. That would probably be a heck of a whitetail/hog load.

Good Luck and God Bless!

Reloader

I don't use them anymore but in 60 years of hunting I have never seen a RN Rem Corelokt fail....and I have seen them used on almost every species of game in the world. Maybe some folks used them in hi vel rounds that they were never intended for and blew them up, thats what usually happens when folks don't understand bullet construction and what a bullet is designed for....

I believe Sierras are a bit soft and out dated for hunting IMO...I don't use them for my hunting..I opt for premium bullets like Nosler partitions, Woodleigh and Northforks. I went through all those conventional bullets for years and they all fail now and then, its the nature of conventional bullets...

I have to agree with what Ricciardeli said earlier.I've hunted for a lot of years with the Sierra Gameking and have never lost a single animal while using it.The majority of my hunting has been for large species of game like elk and moose.It's also worked well on smaller game like goats,bears,deer,etc.When I leave on a grizzly hunt in about a month,I'll be using my .300 loaded with 200 grain Sierra bullets.
Dave

I will stick to partitions, Grooves and GS Customes for my big gun...

I am not nearly as experienced a hunter as many of you guys but one thing is for sure, when I fork out a lot of money to go on a hunt you can bet that I am not going to skimp on the cost of bullets! I don't care if the darn bullet costs $2 a piece - if that gives me the confidence that I can kill the animal at any reasonable angle then I think that is a deal.



I've also found Sierra bullets to be quite soft. I've killed several deer with Sierra's and always had a lot of meat damage and a couple of exploded bullets. I recently shot a small sow feral hog (130# or so) at about 175 yards with a 165g HPBT Sierra Game King, and I was not overly impressed with the bullet performance. This one went right up the ass and stopped in the guts - never hitting bone but exploding into pieces, thus requring a second shot. This with a 2800 fps MV from a .30-06

and, just to pour gas....

"are sierra's soft"...

when compared to a BT, they are 4140 Hardened steel!!

jeffe