The Accurate Reloading Forums
376 Steyr 250 grn TTSX...any thoughts - case capacity = 76.2 grns of water
05 September 2011, 02:35
Mike_Dettorre376 Steyr 250 grn TTSX...any thoughts - case capacity = 76.2 grns of water
The TTSXs are boat tails so they are going to get seated deeper...
All I can find is 250 grn Sierra loads...so not comfortable with substituting?
I have RL-15 and Varget...any thoughts on mins and maxs
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 September 2011, 23:28
Mike_DettorreSomebody throw me a bone...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
06 September 2011, 00:32
jeffeossoMike,
what is the length of the bullet? i'll put in quickload
06 September 2011, 01:14
Mike_Dettorrejeff,
its a boatail total length is 1.44
the boattail portion its about.200
see what it thinks of with varget and rl15
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
06 September 2011, 04:49
GhubertMaking quite a few assumptions I got the following:
Cartridge : .376 Steyr
Bullet : .375, 250, Barnes 'X' S 37582
Useable Case Capaci: 62.028 grain H2O = 4.027 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.110 inch = 78.99 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 56564 psi, or 390 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
Hodgdon VARGET 102.4 56.7 3.67 2480 96.4 56565 7012 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 100.2 57.3 3.71 2519 96.7 56565 7347 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
The best other loads seemed to be:
Alliant Reloder-17 102.0 61.2 3.96 2562 96.5 56565 7618 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 103.6 61.2 3.96 2556 97.1 56565 7535 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 92.6 57.0 3.69 2539 99.1 56565 7136 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 105.0 63.5 4.11 2538 91.7 55988 7678 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 94.9 59.2 3.84 2532 98.3 56565 7346 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 102.2 62.2 4.03 2519 92.0 56565 7572 1.105 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 102.3 57.6 3.73 2512 97.1 56565 7089 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 97.1 57.2 3.71 2511 99.5 56565 6952 1.118 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 99.0 53.5 3.47 2500 100.0 56565 6608 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
These are should be fairly conservative loads, depending on your rifle's specifics of course, but without lots more information this is the best I can do.
06 September 2011, 05:37
Mike_DettorreThanks Ghubert...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
06 September 2011, 05:55
Mike_DettorreA few more data points for anybody who is interested...
Case Length = 2.35
COL = 3.25
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
06 September 2011, 11:38
guncurtis2I just E-mailed barnes to see what they recommend for this bullet in 375H&H. It seemes like it would be an excellant bullet for this caliber and just about anygame you could think of.
Curtis
07 September 2011, 01:19
Ghubertquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
A few more data points for anybody who is interested...
Case Length = 2.35
COL = 3.25
I'm not sure if you feel I was overly circumspect in my post above, do you have the information you need Mike?
Your new information changes things somewhat so I may as well ask you for everything I need...
What is your barrel length and if possible the water capacity of a fired case?
Also to help me model the bullet more accurately, what is the diameter at the base of the boat-tail?
Also the velocity of a know load would be useful in tuning the software.
That increase in OAL for example might translate to a grain or more powder being required to get the pressure and hence velocity back up to the level of the shorter load.
This is the trouble with Quickload derived data of course.....
07 September 2011, 01:49
BNagelMike
The TTSX's crimped at the last band with RL-15 shoot great in my .375 Wby, FWIW. Yeah , they're long but don't have to be seated way out...
_______________________
04 October 2011, 08:30
army aviatorquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
The TTSXs are boat tails so they are going to get seated deeper...
All I can find is 250 grn Sierra loads...so not comfortable with substituting?
I have RL-15 and Varget...any thoughts on mins and maxs
Mike
I read something in my Barnes manual about the 376 Steyr so I called them and they said they got excellant accurate and velocity with Tac so I bought a pound but have not reloaded with any of it since my last trip to Africa was in 07. I used VARGET AND 270 GRAIN A FRAMES at 2595FPS. SHOT COMPLETELY through a big Eland at 165 yards. This is not a maximum load and factory 270 loads are a little hot in my 23" barrel Montana Arms rifle. They are at 2695 FPS. I would like to shoot 250 grain and 300 grain bullets in my 376. Keep us posted.
04 October 2011, 08:44
Mike_Dettorre66.2 grns of BLC-2 with 250 ttsx generated 2615 fps and 3/4 inch groups. COL is 3.285
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
04 October 2011, 18:13
Snellstromquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
66.2 grns of varget with 250 ttsx generated 2615 fps and 3/4 inch groups. COL is 3.285
I guess that should work!
08 October 2011, 02:46
jeffeossoQL predicts that varget load to be over 70K psi...
at 3.285, QL suggests
h380
h414
ramshot hunter
i4831
rel15
QUICKLOAD PROJECTIONS NOT RELOADING DATA
UNPROVEN
LIKLEY UNSAFE
rel15 looks easy.. 1000% load SAYS 2575, 60.7gr, 52k psi...
TO 63.75GR, 60KPSI, 2700FPS
08 October 2011, 03:15
mstarlingDamn ... gotta get my 1909 Argentine .376 Steyr blued! Is ready to rock ... custom scope mounts and all, but is in the white still.
I like the chambering. Should be a good full range cartridge for North America.
Mike
--------------
DRSS, Womper's Club, NRA Life Member/Charter Member NRA Golden Eagles ...
Knifemaker,
http://www.mstarling.com 08 October 2011, 04:07
Mike_DettorreAll oops...it is BLC-2 not varget.
I will edit the post when I get to a real computer
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
08 October 2011, 04:10
Mike_DettorreAll it is blc-2 not varget
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
08 October 2011, 07:43
jeffeossomakes sense.. blc2 and h414 tend to run close together....
08 October 2011, 07:55
Mike_DettorreJeefe,
I am curious as to what quick load says about the load with BLc-2
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
08 October 2011, 08:01
jeffeossoQL not on laptop.. will check later, sorry buddy
13 October 2011, 20:40
GhubertHow long is the barrel Mike?
For a 22" I get the following:
Cartridge : .376 Steyr
Bullet : .375, 250, Barnes 'TSX' BT Custom
Useable Case Capaci: 66.926 grain H2O = 4.345 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.285 inch = 83.44 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 89 59.58 2414 3235 42609 7577 96.6 1.253
-09.0 89 60.24 2440 3306 44037 7656 97.0 1.237
-08.0 90 60.90 2467 3377 45510 7733 97.3 1.219
-07.0 91 61.57 2493 3450 47032 7807 97.7 1.201
-06.0 92 62.23 2519 3523 48610 7879 98.0 1.183
-05.0 93 62.89 2545 3597 50245 7947 98.3 1.166
-04.0 94 63.55 2572 3671 51940 8013 98.5 1.149
-03.0 95 64.21 2598 3746 53697 8075 98.8 1.132 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 96 64.88 2624 3822 55520 8134 99.0 1.115 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 97 65.54 2650 3899 57411 8191 99.2 1.099 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 98 66.20 2676 3976 59372 8243 99.4 1.083 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 99 66.86 2702 4053 61409 8293 99.5 1.067 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 100 67.52 2728 4132 63523 8339 99.7 1.052 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 101 68.19 2754 4211 65719 8381 99.8 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 102 68.85 2780 4290 68001 8420 99.9 1.022 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 103 69.51 2806 4370 70373 8455 99.9 1.007 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 66.20 2788 4315 71582 7931 100.0 1.006 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 66.20 2517 3517 47613 8161 94.6 1.185
If you can, I know it's a pain, measure your case water capacity that would be very handy in refining your data.
From the above it look like it's a warm but ok load.
14 October 2011, 07:55
Mike_DettorreGWB,
I will need to measure when I get back I am on my way to a moose hunt. BBL length is 23 inches
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
23 October 2011, 02:55
Mike_Dettorre76.2 grains of water
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
23 October 2011, 18:09
GhubertOops, that buggers things up!
Cartridge : .376 Steyr
Bullet : .375, 235, Barnes 'TSX' 37552
Useable Case Capaci: 63.131 grain H2O = 4.099 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.285 inch = 83.44 mm
Barrel Length : 23.0 inch = 584.2 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 94 59.58 2498 3463 47676 7138 97.6 1.225
-09.0 95 60.24 2525 3540 49387 7204 97.9 1.206
-08.0 96 60.90 2553 3617 51160 7267 98.2 1.188
-07.0 97 61.57 2580 3695 52999 7327 98.5 1.170
-06.0 98 62.23 2607 3773 54912 7384 98.8 1.152 ! Near Maximum !
-05.0 99 62.89 2634 3853 56903 7438 99.0 1.134 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 100 63.55 2662 3933 58975 7488 99.2 1.117 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 101 64.21 2689 4013 61132 7535 99.4 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 102 64.88 2716 4095 63379 7579 99.5 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-01.0 103 65.54 2743 4177 65721 7619 99.7 1.067 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 104 66.20 2770 4260 68162 7655 99.8 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0 105 66.86 2797 4344 70708 7687 99.9 1.035 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 106 67.52 2824 4428 73365 7716 99.9 1.019 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 107 68.19 2851 4513 76140 7741 100.0 1.004 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 108 68.85 2878 4598 79039 7762 100.0 0.989 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 109 69.51 2905 4684 82069 7780 100.0 0.974 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 66.20 2876 4592 82467 7311 100.0 0.979 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 66.20 2614 3794 54437 7698 96.0 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
QL assumes a case volume, filled to the mouth of the case with a flat meniscus, to be 80 grains of water.
Is you load compressed as the newer calculation implies or is a little loose in the case like the old one? ~( the load density of QL default case volume made for ~98% )
The smaller volume means that QL is now out by around a 100fps and predicts the load to be around 68Kpsi, a point where primer pockets become loose after a few firings, case head expansion becomes noticeable, and in my rifles the case head itself becomes marked by the bolt face.
Did you measure the capacity all the way to overflow or to the shoulder?
24 October 2011, 08:16
Mike_DettorreMeasured it to overflow...BTW I noticed that you used a 235 grn bullet this time instead of 250...
I re-measured and got the same water weight.
Funny the Hodgdon website shows 68.0C with a 250 grn sierra as max as well as 67.6 with a 260 AB
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
24 October 2011, 13:30
GhubertI use the 235 TSX with your custom length and boat-tail data as the basis of modelling the 250 grain bullet. I didn't re-name this time but did use the right data.
The Hogdon data makes sense as those lead and copper bullets are both a fair bit shorter than your bullet.
Jeffe, AS, what do you boys make of it?
It's likely that the burn rate of the blc2 in the QL database is a bit faster burning than the lot you have, adjusting the charge for speed takes me back to the pressure figures I gave two posts ago.
Thank you for taking the time to measure your cases, the more simulations I run in QL the better I understand it's strengths and weaknesses.
PS. How did the moose hunt go?
