I understand that certain manufacturers reloading dies have a changeable bushing placed internally so that once the bullet is seated 'you' as the reloader can determine case neck tension. Is this correct? And with correct case neck tension you can help gain accuracy. This makes perfect sense. How does one determine what the correct case neck tension is...or is it a trial and error sort of thing like powders, powder weights, bullet seating depths, etc.?

I have a factory firearm that is not been accurized...yet. On different forums there have been differing opinions about this reloading die vs. another reloading die, turning case necks for factory chambers, measuring runout, etc. I know the game is thousandths of an inch...but I'm not a bench rest or long range shooter.....YET! LOL! I ask because like everyone else I am trying to wring the greatest accuracy from my firearm, but at what cost?

RenegadeRN

You mis-understand the bushing die concept slightly. Bushing dies are resizing dies, but instead of making the neck smaller as the case enters the dies, then expanding the neck to acceptable diameter to allow seating of the bullet, the bushing only size the neck down a limited amount so that the brass is only worked once and the neck is not pulled out of concentricity when you draw it back out over the expander ball. Google Sinclair International and request a catalog, they have some excellent tips for using their products, bushing dies included.
Selmerfan

The bushing selection description is given here and says

"To determine proper Bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge with a precision micrometer, then subtract .002" to .003", to allow for brass spring back and bullet tension."

Last month we had a pretty good discussion about bushing dies.

The bushing dies work great and don't use the expander button. Remove it first thing.

OK, I think I understand the concept and after reading replies and the discussion for last month I, but now I am REALLY at a loss. I have read and re-read my manuals to ensure I have basic reloading down. I understand full sizing and neck sizing, but at present only have two die sets with expander balls internally, i.e. RCBS basic dies. I've used them in .223. and 300 Savage, but after reading many of the posts here I am ready to move up in accuracy, etc. [Like everyone else.]

I am confused. With a basic set of FL dies everything is resized [case, shoulder, neck and all] in one stroke. Right? To remove any chance of pulling brass out of alignment, hence reduce accuracy, I gather that other die sets all of this is done in separate steps? One die works the outside case, one die works the neck and shoulder, and the other die seats the bullet? ARGGH!! I need to go back to the drawing board. Forster website, manuals, etc. here I come. LOL!

RenegadeRN

quote:

Originally posted by RenegadeRN:

I need to go back to the drawing board. Forster website, manuals, etc. here I come. LOL!

RenegadeRN

Hey RN

It wouldn't hurt to go back to the websites and manuals but you are in the right place right here to learn everything you need to know. Just ask.

Yes there are dies that do different things and sometimes doing them at different times and in stages allow you to control them better and do a better job.

There are neck sizing dies like the Lee Collet (cheap and fool proof) or the Redding Bushing Neck Sizer (expensive and tricky, be sure and get the right size bushings sold separately). I know with the Lee Collet you do not have to lube the inside of the neck and that is a big jump forward IMO.

Then you can get a Redding Body Die to size the case body and push the shoulder back. Easy to use.

By doing the neck sizing and body sizing in 2 different steps with 2 different dies it allows you to neck size only if you want or size the whole case as you want. Certainly for the first 2 or 3 reloadings on new brass you will be able to neck size only.

In order to get the best results from either a body die or a FL die you will benefit from a Hornady Headspace Gauge which will tell you how far you are pushing the shoulder back.

Bullet seating is always a separate step anyway whether you used a FL die or a 2 step neck-sizer/body-die to size the case.

RenegadeRN
Life will be simpler if you just have a set of Comp dies from Forster with the Comp seater.
Don't worry with bushing dies and stuff. I have both and the Forsters work really well and my current favorite of my dies.
Neck dies and body dies and bushings are things that will just confuse you in the beginning and not necessary.
Good Luck

For bushing dies to be of much value the brass should be neck turned. The only way that a uniform neck I.D. can be had is if the neck is of uniform thickness all around. Contrary to what Dwight says, a bushing die done properly can and does make for very uniform neck tension, this is impossible without uniform necks, that are never found in factory brass.

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
For bushing dies to be of much value the brass should be neck turned. The only way that a uniform neck I.D. can be had is if the neck is of uniform thickness all around. Contrary to what Dwight says, a bushing die done properly can and does make for very uniform neck tension, this is impossible without uniform necks, that are never found in factory brass.

Bob,
Please explain what I said that is contrary. I reread my post and your statement baffles me somewhat.

Dwight, You stated that neck dies body dies and bushing dies will confuse you and are not necessary. I wholeheartedly agree that they are not necessary, but used properly they add a lot to uniformity of ctgs. and threrfore accuracy. I possibly misunderstood what you were trying to say.

RenegadeRN, I would suggest getting (and reading) all of the major reloading books; each has little gems of information you can build on.

Next, go to the Sinclair International website,

http://www.sinclairintl.com/

and get one of their catalogs. Their website is good, but their catalog is an education. As far as accurate loads in a factory rifle, I would recommend biting the bullet, and paying the high price that Lapua brass goes for. EXPENSIVE, but worth every penny. These Finnish cases are some of the most uniform you can buy.

Extremely uniform weight on a case to case comparison, and drilled primer holes. Before you try turning case necks, or any other detailed case preparation, try the Lapua cases as they come to you, fire some starter loads through them, then neck size, and reload them. I'm also partial to the Finnish powders (Vihta Vuori).

River Rat 1969 AKA Jim

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
Dwight, You stated that neck dies body dies and bushing dies will confuse you and are not necessary. I wholeheartedly agree that they are not necessary, but used properly they add a lot to uniformity of ctgs. and threrfore accuracy. I possibly misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Bob,
I use bushing dies but I was trying to keep life simple for a guy just starting out. It is easier entering the pool on the shallow end first and working to deeper water later.
Dwight

quote:

Originally posted by Dwight:

quote:

Originally posted by b beyer:
Dwight, You stated that neck dies body dies and bushing dies will confuse you and are not necessary. I wholeheartedly agree that they are not necessary, but used properly they add a lot to uniformity of ctgs. and threrfore accuracy. I possibly misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Bob,
I use bushing dies but I was trying to keep life simple for a guy just starting out. It is easier entering the pool on the shallow end first and working to deeper water later.
Dwight

I was going to say the same thing. For a beginning reloader, (I know the question wasn't asked) I would recommend standard dies. When one gets a little reloading experience under his belt--then go for the bushing dies. Most likely it will make life simpler in the beginning.

I have 29 sets of dies (crazy, I know). One set of Redding bushing dies makes more concentric cases, the other set does no better than my standard dies.

Casey

Dwight and Casy, you may be right I started using standard dies 50 years ago and got out of loading for a long time. When I started up again I went right to bushing dies and there was no problem at all. I think that a newcomer would find it as easy to start with the bushing dies as any. Just my idea on it.