If you had a tools & equipment budget of $3,000, and the following reloading needs:

600 x 9 mm P rounds per month for IPSC type practice

400 x .45 ACP rounds per month for IPSC type practice

300 x .223 Rem rounds per month for bench rest type practice

100 x 7 x 57 mm rounds per month for practical hunting practice

100 x .308 Win rounds per month for practical hunting practice

30 x .375 H&H rounds per month for practical hunting practice

30 x .404 Jeff rounds per month for practical hunting practice.

What kind of reloading set up, starting from scratch, would you buy?

I see something blue in your future.

$3000 should just about cover the primers...

For equipment, a single stage for the smaller quantity and precision stuff, and a dillon for the bulk pistol stuff. A good bench, scale, dies, and sundries. If you're just getting started, you might be able to find a pretty complete used setup in the local paper or craigslist.

Well you sure do not need $3K worth of gear to load those quantities. I would buy what I actually have:
Dillon 550B for the 223 & all handgun rounds. You could substitute the LNL or 650 but the ease of caliber change makes the 550B a winner, especially if you are loading small quantities you mention.
A large single stage press for the magnum rifle rounds. Larger window in the press to work in as well as greater leverage. I have a RCBS AmmoAMaster, designed for the 50BMG, it handles any reloading need easily. From sizing large cases to forming cases to resizing bullets (I sie 300gr 44mag down to 423 for low cost plinkers). Those types of reloading chores are tough to do on a progressive.
Really, your ammo needs are not great, the 550B is more press than you need for 600rds of 9mm/m. That would take yo uabout 90min going slow. Yes a 650 is faster, but more coplicated to change over & the case feeder is mor PITA for small runs than worth the effort IMO. Yes I have a 550B, 650 & SS presses. I used to shoot 3K rds of 45colt a month along w/ other misc calibers.
A 550B, good magnum SS press & dies for all, case tumbler, calipers, loading block (rifle) & scale would set you back about $1500. Then by components w/ the rest.

with that kind of a budget id pick up a 650 with a case feeder for doing handgun ammo and a good single stage press. If you have money left over a 550 is a good press as it will put out a good ammount of ammo and works better for rifle loading then a 650.

I recommend the 550B I have one and reload for all the calibers listed. I would add a Pact digital scale and digital powder dispenser. I have some loads that I like to weigh the powder especially when working up a load. The rest of the time the Dillon powder measure throws a verrey consistent charge.
I highly recommend Dillon dies and if they don’t have it use Redding. I have ben getting rid of all the misalanious dies I have accumulated and replacing them with Redding. Just much better quality and great warranty.
You will want some other basic equipment. I would start with a small and large primer pocket uniformer. You might want a flash hole debure tool. You will need a good case trimmer. There are as many opinions as to what one is the best as there are trimmers. I am using a RCBS Trim pro with the 3way cutter on several size cases. This reduces time as it trims deburs and chamfers the inside of the case at one time.
You said you are doing bench work with a AR you will find many great items at Sinclair. They are one of the go to sites for the bench shooter. They are now part of the Brownell family
http://www.sinclairintl.com/
You could add a good case tumbler because it is easier and more fun to work with clean shiny cases.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
with that kind of a budget id pick up a 650 with a case feeder for doing handgun ammo and a good single stage press. If you have money left over a 550 is a good press as it will put out a good ammount of ammo and works better for rifle loading then a 650.

The 650 is a nice press, but really, changing over for such small quantities would be a pain, especially w/ the case feeder. The 550B will do it all for less money. Really, 450rds/hr vs 700rds/hr, not a whole lot of diff for the convenience (550B) vs complication (650).

hornady lock n load AP -- 400 (remember, this is the equal to the 650, NOT the 550, in terms of features)
about about 5 shell plates, $150
2x10 pack of bushings - 70 bucks
5 powder measure bushings .. 30 bucks
second powder measure for small stuff, 75 bucks
powder cop 35
dies 300
brass and bullets? IDK
rcsb supreme single stage 120
2 hornady elec scales 60
2 sets of 6" digital calibes 50

other than brass and bullets, less than HALF your budget

and i am one of the few that has blue, green, and red presses to actually compare, rather than merely opine about

I see blue too...

SDBs in pistol caliber, I got five now, and leave them set up for each caliber.
Two 550's. One for small primers and one for large.
A4 if you can find one for the big stuff. Option B there, a Corbin Walnut Hill swaging press. I can do 50 BMG if I want on mine; and you can buy bullet swaging dies if you wish for it.

Rich
Cool Blue

dillon 650 & a coax

I would question weather you would want to use a dillon on the 223 if you are going to use them for "benchrest" as you state. I load 223 on my dillons but it is hardly going to be bench rest quality. Good for accurate plinking only in my opinion.

As for using a Ammo Master for your larger rounds. I would vote against it just for the fact that it has too much stroke for only 375 & 404 rounds. I have one and use it for my 50 cal but it would get tiring using it for the rounds you state. One of my favorit is the Redding Ultra Mag for the larger cases. I use it all they way up to the nitro express cartridges.

I think the above mention of having two 550b's set up for small and large primers is a good idea if you are truly going to be loading the quantities that you list above each month.

I would get a couple of 550's, a redding ultra mag and then I would seriously consider the dillion primer filler. Yes they are expensive but worth it. That seams to be the longest task when using a dillion is filling the damn primer tubes. I love the primer filler and actually have two. One for small and large primers.

All of the above will fit under your budget. I would also recommend the dillion pistol die sets. I like them alot.

Mac

I don’t think I have ever seen an AR or most varmint rifles that you could tell the difference between ammo loaded on the Dillon or on the most expensive bench equipment. The most important part is case prep not the press.
I did leave out one item that is required is a good set of digital calipers. I don’t know why you would need it for the calibers listed but if you must have a single stage press get the REDDING.
Just a thought, to save time and hassle changing calibers just load more of the less used calibers at the same time.
For example
500 - 7X57
500 – 308
150 – 375
150 - 404
This way you don’t have to revisit these calibers for 5 months
Bill

quote:

Just a thought, to save time and hassle changing calibers just load more of the less used calibers at the same time.

My approach is to clean size and degrease a large lot of brass. Then I store it. A few weeks before I need a smaller quantity of it I will prime a big batch.
When I actually load it all that has to be done is charge and seat the bullets. This is not very time consuming and minimizes the quantity of components I need on hand.

Not to hijack Riaans thread but could somebody expand the difference between the Hornady and the Dillon just a bit please - for both of us. For me just as it pertains to 38 Special, .223 Rem, and 45 ACP.

I am in somewhat the same boat other than I already have a big complete set up for the rifles since I got back to loading last year.

I have both RCBS 1500 and the Pact digitals, and all my other equipment is Redding, Redding, Redding, and Sinclair and Sinclair-Wilson. All my dies are Redding with a few Lees like the crimps etc that are really not used. I have the Redding Big Boss II and a Redding Turret which I was using just for the 38's and the .223. I even have a spare head but I have not used it or the Turrett - just staying with what I know. But it would be nice to spool off 300 rounds in an hour . Might be a Redding Turrett press and some Lee dies for sale in a Classified section near here !

A question I have is will either of them take the Redding micrometer seater dies that I already have? I have both Redding roll and taper crimp dies in all these calibers and would likely just use the taper - or does that have to be a separate operation again or do they hold enough dies to run the crimp as well?

Are either of the powder sytems as accurate and repeatable as my Redding Match Grade 3 BR with the handgun metering tube? It is right on with Win 231.

The only Hornady gear I have is their bullet puller and colletts.

I had always heard that the Dillon was the one for this - other than they have a lot of add on goodies to add to the cost or no? I have never set up or run a progressive though.

I only need one - I am already out of space .

Thank you in advance.

TexKD,
You have a great setup with what you have now. You are on the right track with Redding and Sinclair and Sinclair-Wilson products.
I to spent some time away from reloading. When I started up again I had a Dillon 550 and was looking to add a 650. I went over to a friends and loaded on his 650 and liked it but felt I would stay with the 550 as I felt I had more control when I decided when to advance the shell plate. I can load through .470 3” on the 550 but not on the 650.
Yes you can use all your Redding micrometer seater dies on the Dillon. You can get an adapter to use your Redding Match Grade 3 BR powder measure on the Dillon. I have found the Dillon powder measure to be quite good especially with ball powder. I did a test with the small powder bar (I was loading 380s) 4 gr bullseye 25 throws were all 4.0 on the pact digital scale. Dillon guarantees 0.1 gr with the rifle bar.
Sating up a progressive is not any harder than a single station press. You just do each step as you would normally. The first step is decap, size prime. The next is powder, Then bullet seating. I like to use the last station for crimp on cases that require a crimp. Dillon has great directions and there is a DVD available. And you can always call and they will walk you through any problem. That leads me to the fact that Dillon has the best warranty in the industry.
“I had always heard that the Dillon was the one for this - other than they have a lot of add on goodies to add to the cost or no?”
The only add-ons you need would be caliber conversions for what you want to load. I would get a couple extra tool heads so you don’t have to change the adjustment on your dies. Just pull 2 pins and change the tool head, change the shell plate and you can go from 38 to 223 adjust the powder and you can be loading. I like the fact that after the 4th stroke of the handle loaded ammo is falling into the bin. Yes with any new toy there are lots of goodies you can add but may not need.
I have no experience with Horanady I believe them to be a good product. I am to far down the Blue road and way to satisfied to change now.
Bill

Thank you for your informative reply Bill. Yes when I got back to loading I went for a top quality set up - and it works quite well I will add.

I may be just a bit leery of the progressives as many of the bigger loading problems I have ever heard of seem to have been with a progressive loader. Over loads, primer depth - or no primers , seating depth all seem straightforward but can get to be a problem easier.

But I do want to crank off those 38's, 223 and my son is running me out of 45's.

But more bench space - whew!

I am going to call Dillon and look at the 550 . But it is very unlikely that I would load any other rifle ammo with it - but I will never say never again. I said never when I sent away the old RCBS set up and the Federal ammo was so good - as was my Weatherby stuff. Now I have no Weatherbys, cant get the old load Federals, and I have a big loading set-up.

In my mind I was going to use the RCBS Loadmaster 1500 for the rifles, and the PACT with another powder, and the Redding 3 BR for just the 38. Man that 3BR is good. Of course it is still new - and I only tried a few powders in it- but it is staying. But I am encouraged by what you say, as the D is just as good it seems, and of course designed to work with their loaders.

So I am going to put together a short list for Dillon based on what I have, and a long list with everything of theirs, and then call them.

But I have to get a couple of other projects out of the way first. Like finish the swimming pool build out in the yard so the girls can go swim while I am cranking out that 300 rounds an hour.

Will it really make that kind of round count if you are fully set and more experienced in it's use??

One thing is that my precision brass prep might fly out though. Just load em and shoot em - less time prepping and more time at the trigger ! My old Colts, and Smith 52, really like that hand- built-one-at-a-time ammo though.

I just did not want to have to get yet another rig up complete with the Dillon. I am getting pretty used to the dies and system I have, so I did not want to further complicate things. Much less all the credit card receipts stack - not to scare Riaan off but I have been saying "just another $500 to finish this" now for over a year!

And look for a PM when I get it on how to set it up . Thanks again and let us know how your set up comes out too Riaan.

LNL AP here to load largish volumes of 6br and 223 using redding comp dies.
A co-ax sits alongside for load development work or to load up "best grade" ammo for when I feel like puffing my feathers up at the range.

Ive got an ar that shoots 1/2moa with ammo loaded on a progressive. Dont know about you but thats good enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:
Not to hijack Riaans thread but could somebody expand the difference between the Hornady and the Dillon just a bit please - for both of us. For me just as it pertains to 38 Special, .223 Rem, and 45 ACP.

I am in somewhat the same boat other than I already have a big complete set up for the rifles since I got back to loading last year.

I have both RCBS 1500 and the Pact digitals, and all my other equipment is Redding, Redding, Redding, and Sinclair and Sinclair-Wilson. All my dies are Redding with a few Lees like the crimps etc that are really not used. I have the Redding Big Boss II and a Redding Turret which I was using just for the 38's and the .223. I even have a spare head but I have not used it or the Turrett - just staying with what I know. But it would be nice to spool off 300 rounds in an hour . Might be a Redding Turrett press and some Lee dies for sale in a Classified section near here !

A question I have is will either of them take the Redding micrometer seater dies that I already have? I have both Redding roll and taper crimp dies in all these calibers and would likely just use the taper - or does that have to be a separate operation again or do they hold enough dies to run the crimp as well?

Are either of the powder sytems as accurate and repeatable as my Redding Match Grade 3 BR with the handgun metering tube? It is right on with Win 231.

The only Hornady gear I have is their bullet puller and colletts.

I had always heard that the Dillon was the one for this - other than they have a lot of add on goodies to add to the cost or no? I have never set up or run a progressive though.

I only need one - I am already out of space .

Thank you in advance.

blue is good, red is good .. come over to porter and try them out ..

a 550 is NEVER an answer when PROGRESSIVES are the question .. don't waste your time with them, with the LNL being the same price, but the same features as a 650

as i said, i might be the only guy on AR with both

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
blue is good, red is good .. come over to porter and try them out ..


as i said, i might be the only guy on AR with both

I might just take you up on that offer.

After looking at the Dillon site a bit I dont think that I had realized the 550 was a manually indexed machine. It may not make a lot of difference unless you are using a casefeeder though. Still seems as though the Dillons (at least the 650)has more features but it looks like it could be a pain to change over vs the 550.

Thanks again and I will go "do a search" and see what has surfaced on this before.

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
blue is good, red is good .. come over to porter and try them out ..


as i said, i might be the only guy on AR with both

I might just take you up on that offer.

After looking at the Dillon site a bit I dont think that I had realized the 550 was a manually indexed machine. It may not make a lot of difference unless you are using a casefeeder though. Still seems as though the Dillons (at least the 650)has more features but it looks like it could be a pain to change over vs the 550.

Thanks again and I will go "do a search" and see what has surfaced on this before.

I have both & IMO, too much is made of the auto indexing on a progressive. You still feed the bullet w/ the left hand & can index the shell plate as you do that. No time is lost, you still want to visually verify powder drop (at least I do), so no time is lost auto vs manual indexing. The case feeder on the 650 is what makes the 650 go, not so much the autoindexing IMO. The LNL is also a great press, but works kind of reverse of the Dillion, so when I sold one of my 550B to "upgrade", I bought a 650. Yes it is more complicated to change over, but if you load a lot of one caliber, mine is setup for 45acp, then change over isn't a big deal. I load 10 other calibers on the 550B, change over is very fast & easy.

What I hated about Dillon 550 was the clackity-clack and horizontal movement of the powder dispenser. And the brass buttons holding the shells in. And the removable shell plate and all the bench space needed to store them.

I didn't mind the manual indexing, actually wish it was an option on the LNL.
I don't load pistol ammo on my LNL, just precision varmint ammo in .223, 204 and 6br.

Main thing I don't like about the LNL is that when you spill powder onto the shell plate you pretty much have to pull it to clean as it will also have worked it's way down into the priming area and (even though I've ground a bevel on the bottom of the primer slide) only a few grains of powder can and will stop primers from coming inward enough to center on in the cup before seating.

Still, I sold my 550 and like using the LNL.

TexKD,
let me know when.. and its my opinion that manual indexing isnt berated enough ... i have enough to do, without indexing it ... only 2 presses aren't auto.. the rest are ..

I will zing you. I am hung up for a week or so - and all that dove and teal is coming too.

But thank you again and I look forward to it.

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:
I will zing you. I am hung up for a week or so - and all that dove and teal is coming too.

But thank you again and I look forward to it.

I think getting to try bouth presses would be a good thing. You have to understand Jeff is really enamored with the “auto index feature". I have 2 Square deals and think it is ok but I get along quite nicely with out it on my 550. I look forward to a report on what you decide after visiting Jeff.
We haven't heard back from Riaan and I am wondering what he thinks about the differant post.
Bill

Bill, even though I’ve not been responding to the different posts, I’ve certainly been reading them. Thanks you to everyone that took the time to make suggestions.

I’m tied up for about another week, after which I’ll start working through all the suggestions to compile my shopping list.

Bill - I was thinking about this thread and going to Jeffs. Because I made a call to Dillon today . Loading some 38's and 45's, and this thread, pushed me off high center on the higher volume press. And while I am going to take Jeff up on his offer ( couldnt go yet - not to mention that we might have to float over there due to all this rain) I might be looking more to compare and how to set up for the progressive.

The Dillon Tech recommended the 550 of course. If I was going to just leave it set up for one caliber, and run more at a time, then the 650. In line with what was said here.

So earlier I went through and added up what I wanted for a full set up of 38, 45, and the 223 and the 550 and the accessories. I have not done that yet for the 650. The machine cost is not so much the issue but more the accessories and my volume plus the changeovers. Dillon seemed straight up that the 550 has "overall" less set up and use issues. But it does not have the powder check nor the auto index. If I can make 300 an hour that would be great - 500 would be off scale! At 800-1000 an hour I am going to need to buy more brass, and more place to store it, and more bullets, and more place to store it ................. !

On another note what height do you have your 550 handle at?

I think I am going to use the roller handle. And it appears that all the cool and useful Dillon goodies like the cartridge and brass bins, and the bullet tray all attach to the strong mount. The mount is 8 inches high. So getting up there as the handle is higher. So I am looking at adding a pedestal by the bench for the uggghhh Dillon to sit on. I did order a strong mount while I was on the phone.

After looking at it more I am going to use the Dillon dies in either machine. And especially for the the lead bullets and the LHBWC's. The cleaning method looks good. I can use my Reddings for the single press or if I dont get the adjustment for some reason with the Dillon.

This time I will get it all adjusted and leave them and just change the caliber and powder measure for the 223. For the 45 and 38 I just stay with 231 primarily. If I need a small batch back to the single like all ya'll do. Of course all the bolt guns and the magnums go the Redding stuff that I already have.

How hard do you guys find it to maintain and /or adjust the auto indexing of the 650 and the Hornady? I think clean and properly lubricated has to be the key to stopping many problems - but small adjustments could get fussy for any of these machines.

Riaan - you can see which way I am going. I did not mean to hijack your thread either. So please post up what you do. As will I - but I think UPS will be bringing some blue boxes here to Texas .

Thanks.

OOOOPPSSS - double post.

It looked like it ate my post then when I pushed it it gave me two. Must be an auto index thing. Just kidding !

TexKD, you certainly won’t hear me complaining about anyone hijacking this thread. Heck, as long as I can learn from anyone’s experience or insights, I’ll gladly do so.

LNL AP and Redding T7.