Just out of curiosity, who is the weasel dick posing as a gunsmith?

Paul

Hey Jay, First off, in my opinion, this is the best post I've seen you make. It explains your experience level and gives good reasons for your thoughts.

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Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
...Never owned a Weatherby, got a friend that has a MarkV in 300Weatherby, very nice rifle, just an opinion, being that, for the cost of one Weatherby I can get 2 rifles like the 708 I've got now, And I'm getting matchgrade type accuracy with it to boot, paid 465 plus 200 for the HS stock, I've got nothing against Weatherby, just don't feel they're worth the money you pay for them,(cost/accuracy factor)...

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I understand your thoughts. A few years ago I was at the Range and two guys showed up carrying an arm load of stuff and proceded to mess with it for a good while. Come to find out, they had brand new NEF rifles in 270Win and 30-06($119.95 each) and were mounting $40 scopes on them.

When they finally got ready to shoot, they were using good old White box Win and Green box Rem cartridges. Took 2-3 shots to get on at 25yds and then they began shooting at 100yds. Every group they shot was about 1.5"-1.75". None in the 2" range and none below 1".

To say they were thrilled is a gross understatement. Once they finished off their cartridges, they told me they were headed back to buy a "few more rifles" in every caliber they could get.

The triggers on those two rifles were just fine. No creep, no drag and maybe 4#.

So, yes I do understand your position. From "their viewpoint", you and I have both wasted a lot of money on rifles.

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Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
...I've got the same feeling about Leupold scopes, very nice scopes, my 708 wears one in fact, but I'm not going to pay hundreds of dollars more when I can get a Burris of same quality for less money...

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Also understand this position as well. In fact, I have a hankering for a 4-16 Illuminated Burris myself. I was planning to put it on the Wby U-Lt since the legal hunting hours in the South Carolina Lowcountry are 1 hour before sunrise until 1 hour after sunset. I can think of a good many times where having the Illuminated Dot would have resulted in needing the old Drag Stick.

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Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
...I've shot 3 deer with 150 Nosler, 110 paces being the longest shot, that was with a load I had chrono'd at 2300 fps at the muzzle, for an instant kill through the liver, I've not used the other bullets mentioned, but since they're meant for medium game, I'd like to try them out, ...

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Nice post which explains your experience level. I happen to know a good bit about "bullet design" and would suggest the 120gr Hornady HP(previously mentioned) is marginal for deer. By that, I mean if the conditions are favorable and you have a clear shot, it has the potential to kill a deer. Assuming you are talking about 0.284" bullets, I'd suggest there are much better 120gr bullets available - Barnes, Nosler and Speer, all of which I've killed a good many Deer with. I've not used the Hornady or Sierra 120gr bullets on deer, nor would I try them simply because of their design. One of my buddies uses the 120gr Sierra in his 7mmRemMag on Ground Hogs which makes quite a mess.

But, none of the 120gr bullets are going to give you a comfortable feeling " if " you spot a Trophy Buck-of-a-Lifetime standing even 1-row out in a bean/corn/cotton field. They might make it to the deer and then again they may just wound it. Basically, you are handicapping yourself when there is no need to do so.

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Originally posted by Jay Gorski:
...I know Sierra doesn't suggest to use the MKs for game, but some of the fellows on Longrangehunting.com are getting excellent results with them, DRT results. Jay

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The very first person I can remember hearing about using a MatchKing on Game was the Gunsmith David Miller. That was many years ago and he has a lot of trophy Black Tail deer to his credit using them. And, each day I seem to see more and more folks saying they intend to use MatchKings on Game.

So, whether it is his fault or not, I credit David Miller with this fiasco.

Obviously it does no good to discuss Bullet Design with people intent on using MatchKings on game. And I've never wasted my time doing it in any of those threads on this or any other Board.

So, if you go this route, best of luck on having the bullet do whatever it is you believe/think/want it to do.

[ 07-16-2003, 03:30: Message edited by: Hot Core ]

Hor core ...Your # for the Ti is high I got a price of 950 from the local guy here in town for it your price is list cost.
I am curious about those interbonds by hornady now . Did you guys see the post on the milk jug test? Pretty impressive.. I think I am set on the 7-08.

Hotcore, When my son and I were at the gunshop this morning I was looking at a Weatherby and thinking about what I said and your rebuttal, I'm thinking to myself, this things got a HS stock, Krieger barrel, nice trigger, strong action from what I can tell, maybe I was a little premature in my statement, I don't know if the Weatherby would be as accurate as my 708 Rem., I remember reading a test on one last year, and believe it was an accurate rig from what I remember. The useage for the 120gr. Hornady HP says Medium game/Varminting, which might make it marginal for deer, although an auto 6mm Rem. I used to have is also with the 100grain bullet, I'll try doing some penetration test on milk jugs or something and see how the jacket holds together before I use it on deer. Hey, I've got 2 4-16x Sigs, one on my Cooper LVT, the other on my 6mmRem. 700 Varmint, great scopes, you'll be happy with it, I'm sure. If I could persuade you to buy some 150MKs and some RE15,(38-39grs.) put them bullets .010" off the lands, I'd be really interested to see how tight you can get the holes, allowing some time between shots for barrel cool down, mine heats up after 2 shots, I bet you could get under 1/2moa, well, just a thought. You did say David Miller used them on deer, maybe you, too. Thanks, Jay

Jay gorski-One little fact that most people are not aware of is that the barrels on weatherby rifles are not the cut rifled kreiger barrels that have made such a great reputation for themselves as far as accuracy.They are lower grade button rifled criterion barrels made by kreiger or by a company owned by kreiger.This is a misunderstanding many people make and I am sure weatherby is happy that people think they are getting real cut rifled kreiger barrels on their weatherby rifles.

Wild One -

I think because of your time constraints, you will eventually wind up shooting factory ammo, and the choices are better for the 7-08 than the 260. If you can get a rifle with a 22 inch or longer barrel, so much the better...then you can get all the velocity out of the fine Hornady light mag and Federal High Energy 139 and 140 grainers, and duplicate the 270 and 280 all day long in a short action. The federal is a Trophy Bonded Bear claw at 2950 fps, and you just can't do that with a handload. All of these offerings run about 10% below max pressure and won't even operate most auto loaders, so there is an additional advantage if you need one. The Hornady SST 140 delivers 1822 FPE at 300 yards if you want to reach out there. Check out the Hornady interbond thread on this page to see how well this bullet works!

Remington offers a 140 Nosler partition at 2800 fps which should also be very good.

[ 07-16-2003, 08:22: Message edited by: Sabot ]

Hey Paul, That would be "the only" (aleged) Gunsmith I've ever heard of who seeks out opportunities to TESTIFY AGAINST the Firearm Industry. The same person who got in front of CBS's cameras and tried to PT Barnum folks(and fooled a whole bunch) into thinking there is "something wrong" with the excellent Remington Trigger Design. And since taking these anti-positions, he is in my opinion tossed right in the same pile with Clinton, Algore, Heil-ery, Schumer, Brady, Carvelle, etc. - and that would be j belk.

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Originally posted by Wild One:
Hor core ...Your # for the Ti is high I got a price of 950 from the local guy here in town for it your price is list cost.
I am curious about those interbonds by hornady now . Did you guys see the post on the milk jug test? Pretty impressive.. I think I am set on the 7-08.

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Hey Wild One, Man-O-Man, that sounds toooooo good to be true for $950. I can see where that would be a good bargain.

Also agree about the Hornady Interbonds. They do look like great bullets. I've used a whole bunch of Hornady bullets over the years and never had any kind of problem with them at all. So, I'd expect the Interbonds to give a lot of Scirocco and Accubond bullets a good run for their money when it comes to actual "on-game performance".

Hey Jay, Only real complaint I had about my current Wby U-Lt was I couldn't get the Trigger Pull adjusted as "low" as I can my Remingtons. It did break clean as glass with no creep. Probably got it down to 3.75# which is just fine for actual hunting but a bit higher than I prefer for developing Loads. Had to take it apart and swap a spring.

Good luck with the 120gr Hornady HP. I do understand your desire to try a new bullet, I have that same disease. Just don't try to drive it through some briers to reach the Deer and forget "raking shots"(aka shooting at the Wrong End). If you get a clean shot at the chest, it might work, but then again.... Your milk jugs should separate the bullet into a good many pieces for you. And there is nothing necessarily wrong with that " if " it happens inside the game.

You will be pleased to know I've got shelves full of MatchKings. I like to use them to Benchmark a rifle when it is new or when I'm having problems with it. Also use Nosler B-Tips occasionally for the same thing.

But, I know a bit too much about what goes on with a bullet during Impact to use a MatchKing on Deer. I have used a good many 22cal and 0.243" MatchKings on Varmints and they killed with the best of them. Sierra makes excellent bullets when used as they are designed.

I know a whole lot of folks who swear by the RL-series of powders. I had a good bit of Rl-15, 19 and 22, but found the Pressure to be a bit erratic when I approached a SAFE MAX in my rifles. I gave all the RL powders I had to a buddy and he is thrilled with them. Glad to hear it works so well for you.

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Best of luck to all you guys.

Hot Core, interesting. I read his rant in the gunsmith room and thought it a bit too smooth for a "off the top of my head" post. I didn't know who he was/is and asked what exactly was his stake in the game as he just wouldn't let it go. Long story short, I just about got flamed out of the room for simply asking. My take is that he is a professional witness. As you know, the main difference between many professional witnesses and a hooker is the professional witness doesn't have to hang out on street corners.

Hey sabot... I believe you may be correct in that I may have to use factory for a short term. Tell me more about those 140 grainers at 2950 fps were they the fed bear claws?That sounds like a smoker.

WEASEL DICK????????????????????????

Hey beemanbeme, When I read your post, I immediately thought of a good buddy of mine who currently resides in Califoney. Your words were nearly identical to his when belk decided to take on Remington a few years ago.

As a side note, it wasn't many years ago that "only" 1-2% of a rifle's cost was due to various Legal Fees. About the time belk began his tirades, it was rising to about 2-5% depending on the manufacturer. Sad to say, it is now up in the 5-8% range due to ignorance such as belk spews forth.

Why people can't see through him has always AMAZED me. I used to enjoy stomping on his toes over technical issues when it came to firearms, but it got to be a full time job providing "corrections", so I rarely bother anymore.

All the folks that dislike the new Remington Bolt Safety, Sako Bolt Safety, Ruger Mark II non-adjustable triggers, Marlin lever action Receiver Safetys, 5# plus triggers, Warning Labels STAMPED into barrels and (currently) 5-8% more Sticker Price (don't forget you get to pay extra Sales Tax on those lawyer Fees too) have belk, clinton, algore, schumer, heil-ery, boxer, carvelle, etc to thank for it all.

Seems like lots of folks just choose to "overlook" the Traitor, but I will never forget his and others negative impact on the firearms industry.

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Good thing I didn't get wound up thinking about it!