Well at least I feel like I should before I wind up killing myself. My day didn't go so good. Notice anything strange about one of the 9mm rounds?



It turns out a 380 acp case got in my brass and made it all the way through inspection and was spit out of the Piggy Back II as a loaded 9mm round. A little bit later I loaded 4 rounds without primers, then I got a primer stuck under my shell plate and had to disassemble it. I dropped the ball bearing that is under the shell plate and it hid for about fifteen minutes. Finally got it all back together and decided to call it a day. Maybe tomorrow will be better.


Steve.........

And you think you're the only one who makes mistakes. Maybe that's a lot for just one day but still.... you caught them and there's no harm done. Tonight you're a better reloader and you have added some extra vigilance to your ever increasing skill set.
The other day I pulled a really stuck case out of a young guy's .308 fl sizer.... using the ancient RCBS stuck case remover that I picked up about 1967 when I got my first case stuck.. (btw it was a .22 250 and I remember how easily it went into the die and how easily the Rockchucker press pulled the case rim off...)
All in a day's work. Fear not.

Oh yeah, I have had quite a few things happen over the last forty something years of reloading. It is just all part of the on going process.

Steve........

Check, check and check again. One reason why I prefer to load single stage over turret or progressive. Mistakes will happen, just learn from them and move on my friend.

That's about the size of it, I been moving on with reloading like I said for over forty years and probably about 16 years with this Piggy Back II. I really like this thing, it usually runs great. When it messes up it is usually related to operator error.

Steve..........

I have done that; 380 thing; ain't no big deal. How about loading a 45 bullet into a 44 mag case. I didn't shoot that one. It had a big reverse bottleneck. I did fire the 380; works fine.

Think I'll run it through my Hi Power, I committed the cardinal sin at the range one time by having more than one kind of ammo on the table at one time and that is how I shot a 7-08 in my 308 Encore pistol barrel. Lot of noise but almost no recoil.

Steve.......

I have loaded primers backwards and have had a bolt stuck once, so mistakes happen. Sometimes you need to walk away, clear your mind, then refocus. Reloading is dangerous, but I love it.

I had a couple of primers that went in sideways and got squished flat.

Steve.........

Oh, trust me, you ain't the only one that has had a "Mistake" at the loading table. I ran a .45 GAP shell through the press, didn't catch it and ran it through my favorite 1911. It definitely got my attention. Don't give up. Just pay more attention.

Statistically, reloading is not dangerous at all; for the millions of rounds loaded each year by individuals, what is the fatality rate? I think it is zero. Now, compare that to any other leisure past time. Most others are downright hazardous. Like swimming, grilling, driving, motorcycles, drinking, chasing women... You hear about accidents all the time with those diversions.

Just sharing it helps keep us all thinking about what we are doing Steve. Thanks.

I havent had many issues. But I don't get in any hurry and probably that has helped me.

Once when my buddy and I were set up on separate benches and intending it all to stay that way there were two bottles of different powder open. We intended for each to stay on its bench and by its Chargemaster. Later there was some question about that for some reason. I didn't hesitate and pulled all those bullets and dumped the powders and reloaded both batches again. From what I saw it was all correct. But I wasnt about to even think about whether or not the wrong powder had gotten into a powder dispenser.

As I have gotten older and my eyes have gotten less than they were I keep a lighted magnifier on both benches and even a set of loupes handy for if I decide I need them.

Since I am presently schooling my grandson and passing all of my "everything" along to him, I have been hitting the books again, reviewing, reading up on procedures, instructions and I have pulled out ALL of my equipment and accessories from cabinets, laid it all out and formulated an organized plan to step by step cover all of the aspects, emphasis on all.

Surprisingly it is very extensive. Also surprisingly I'm re- learning a lot that apparently was forgotten over the years.

People are creatures of habit. They can fall into a rut. It takes self discipline to break out of old habits and change ones attitude.

A few things above jumped out at me:

* The mistaken caliber/case. Oops, wasn't something shortcut'ed. Case lengths are supposed to be checked. Either by a dial caliper of case lengths die.

* Primer seating. They are tiny and us older guys may be losing a little bit of manual dexterity. I have the Lyman Turbo Top with auto primer feed. I use a primer plate i.e., dump primers in a round tray. The auto feed tube is pressed down on each primer which is captured. The tube is then inserted in it's place on the press and feeds a primer into the priming cup.

The comment about ball powder trickling out of the primer hole, and possibly changing powders, if I understood, *( with permission ) is a false premise to remedy an oversight. In the small pistol cases, and very low grains requirement, 2-3-4 ball powder flows smoothly and can be more precise. Further ball powder is also more compatible with electronic powder measurers than stick or cylindrical powder.

* I do drop steel things too. But I have a T handle magnet with wheels. When I run it around it picks up the item and an audible "click" is heard.

So perhaps the sermon is to rethink, reread, update, review, self evaluate and rededicate.

In the case of my grandson, he's pretty sharp. I don't want to convey any unorthodox methods and I don't want to look
like dufus dumbledorf.

I was at the range a few weeks ago and a gentleman was testing some loads down the firing line from me. I could tell that things weren't going very well by his reactions and comments. I walked over and talked to him and he said the rounds were going everywhere and he couldn't figure out what was wrong. I looked at one of the rounds and commented that I had never loaded 270's but they looked just fine. He looked at me with this stare on his face and then picked up the box of shells. The rifle he was shooting was a 30-06.

quote:

Originally posted by Ed Scarboro:
I was at the range a few weeks ago and a gentleman was testing some loads down the firing line from me. I could tell that things weren't going very well by his reactions and comments. I walked over and talked to him and he said the rounds were going everywhere and he couldn't figure out what was wrong. I looked at one of the rounds and commented that I had never loaded 270's but they looked just fine. He looked at me with this stare on his face and then picked up the box of shells. The rifle he was shooting was a 30-06.

Must admit it is a rather sheepish feeling when this happens and you have to slink away from the range especially when you have no other rifle to shoot. Wondered why I couldn't just drop a round in my Marlin when at the range one day, had to angle it in and still didn't click until the bolt would only go halfway home. Yes 6.5-06 just doesn't fit in a short action 7mm-08.

I'm very routine oriented. When an "uh-oh, what just happened?" goes off in my head, I start re-checking my work. Still, it hasn't always worked. Glad you aren't over-confident. Tomorrow is another day.

I have never tried to shoot a 380 case in a 9mm, but after seeing what you did, I may try. While the shoulder distance between the cases is obvious, assuming that the case is the same diameter, case head construction and case head protrusion are the same, I don’t see why this would be dangerous. Cartridge cases perform several functions, one of the most important is to act as a gas seal. As long as it feeds into the chamber, and the bullet is the same distance from the throat, shorter case walls do not necessarily make this combination dangerous unless the diameter, protrusion, and case head are different.

Anyone ever shot a 22 LR short or 22 Long in a 22 LR Long Rifle chamber? I have, nothing dangerous happened.

Your extractor usually holds the shorter round against the breech face enough to let it fire the round, I don't make it a practice to do but have done it several times, kind of like the .22 Short in a l.r. chamber with it's rim serving the same purpose of the extractor.

Steve.......

Or a 38 Special in a 357 Mag, 44 special in a 44mag or any number of short cased rimmed cals like a 1.8" case 444 Marlin in a standard chamber.

If you make a mistake(s), AND WE ALL DO...learn from them. Nietzsche said "...that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger..."...very applicable in this case.

Statistic have proven that older drivers in some age groups are worse drivers than in some younger age groups for many reasons...the major one falls into the category of "rote learning" or "repetitious actions" something ALL reloaders do...

I've been reloading for a very long time and follow a fairly strict routine...I won't tell you how many times in the past when doing any one of a number of actions my mind wondered off to maybe the next step or something completely off the reloading/shooting subject and wake up wondering "what the He** and need to check back to be sure I didn't muck up.

I do the same thing when driving over the same route...I know the speeds, the curves, the dangerous sections(deer, cattle, slow driving ranchers etc) and I use this time to design/develop/wonder. I hardly ever remember the drives except when something "different" pops then I go back over the activity in my minds eye. I can "see" the odd activity but nothing before or after.

Pretty much the same thing when reloading.

I don't 100-500 cases one step at a time now, I break up the some of the routine into 25 completed rounds at a time and take a break between steps to shoot rats, do a batch of some other caliber, do some gunsmithing, work on a completely different project, watch DVD a few minutes or just observe the woods around me.

This breaks up the monotony of reloading and keeps my mind where it belongs all the time.

Works for me...and anyone reading this tome might now think about it next time you start reloading.

Luck

Or 308 military (7.62 Nato) ammo in 30-06 and 7.65 Argentine rifles? I have done this hundreds of times. Works great and you get a straight case out of it. Some weird shooting things won't kill you. Some will. So, certainly the 380 out of a 9mm is a non issue.

Welcome to the club. If you haven't had trouble, well, you haven't been doing it long enough!

As long as you do not do what a friend of mine did when reloading some 308W cartridges one night. Sitting at his bench he had resized and prepared his cases for loading and instead of priming, charging and seating one task at a time he was priming, charging and seating one cartridge at a time.

He had his seating die in place and having primed and charged a case, he then decided his wife's conversation to a friend on the phone was worth listening into, and instead of seating a bullet he attempted to seat another primer. Whether the squashed primer fired off the seated primer in the charged case or the brisance of the squashed primer firing up into the seating die lit up the powder charge, the effect was a boiling fireball that severely burnt his legs and chest. Fortunately the seating die diverted the fireball away from his face.

A painful lesson learned, one step at a time, concentrate on the task in hand, don't have primers or any other ignition source on or above the bench when working with gunpowder.

Great to see people sharing honestly in the interest of safety & learned lessons.

Once at the range I was loading shooting one round at a time - developing loads. I kept having trouble seating the bullets. Finally we realised that I was trying to seat a 308 bullet in a 280 ACK Imp case!

Every time I just about convince myself to buy a progressive press, I see a post like this and it makes me glad for my slow single stage that forces me to individually handle every cartridge at every step of the process.

I keep all of my F-Ups on the shelf in front of my press. My collection has become rather extensive and serves as a constant reminder to as stated earlier, check, recheck, and then check again. I have some pretty funny lookin stuff on that shelf.

quote:

Or 308 military (7.62 Nato) ammo in 30-06 and 7.65 Argentine rifles?

I have the 7.65 and a Garand. Don't own a .308.
I'd worry about the 308 in my 7.65 since it's an 1891, not the strong 1898. Still, I could see it happening.
dpcd- are you saying that the .311 bore with the .308 just won't build up enough pressure to be a worry?

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
I keep all of my F-Ups on the shelf in front of my press. My collection has become rather extensive and serves as a constant reminder to as stated earlier, check, recheck, and then check again. I have some pretty funny lookin stuff on that shelf.

haha, me too.

very nice visual reminder to pay attention and if i can't, to do something else.

Dull, all my 308 shooting in 7.65 was done on 1909s; I would not do it on a 91. It was not by accident; I used to take my rifles to the machine gun range and shoot up all the extra ammo. Springfields and 1909 Mausers shoot 308s with no problems. I had a Ruger 308 too. Now, this only works on CRF actions.

Now, if you were shooting a cartridge of different case diameter, things can get very interesting. A club member was sighting in several rifles, he fired a 270 Winchester before he got around to his M70 controlled round feed 300 Win Mag. He had a 270 Win round rolling on the shooting bench and did not notice he grabbed the smaller round and chambered it in his rifle.

Case head ruptured on the 270 Win cartridge. Entire left side of his face was bloody from brass and gunpowder particles, his left eyelid was closed so he did not lose sight in that eye. His right eye was protected from debris by the scope bell. Scope was bent/deformed. Floor plate was not blown open, his McMillian fiberglas stock came out of it without splitting.

The action was head spaced and found to be OK. The rifle is back in use.

Lesson to be learned: only have one type of cartridge within reach when shooting.

Recently there is one risk that attention must be paid to by reloaders using progressive presses: small primer 45 ACP brass. I never saw the pictures but I heard the commentary, one gentleman absolutely blew his Dillion 1000 into pieces when he tried to seat a large pistol primer in a 45 ACP small pistol primer case.

I once took a bag of 280 thinking it was a 30-06 and loaded them up as such. I discovered my error pretty quickly at the range. I had to pull the 100 rounds apart.

The difference between a 380ACP and a 9mm Par is not easy and with advanced reloading presses it is a challenge. When I had done it on my Rock Chucker is was easy to see the case standing lower in the loading block, but with the advance press it is not that easy. I have just started up my RCBS Piggyback and your post will make me more careful. Many thanks for sharing this with us. On quitting reloading - tomorrow you would think otherwise!

Once when shooting my Taurus PT100 40 S&W I had a complete case head separation. Gun still fired and ejected the back end of the case above the case Web, but left the front half of the case stuck in the chamber. Only noticed because it wouldn't chamber the next round.

Every once and a while while reloading 357mag, I'll get a 32-20 sneak through. Like the 45 Colt bullet in a 44mag, you get an interesting wasp waist-ed cartridge. Granted, I am loading on a Dillon Progressive and turning out rounds in the hundreds for 3 competition shooters. We have modified our methods to catch this situation by pre-sort the brass before cleaning and then sorting it again before loading. Press maintenance used to be an occasional thing, but has now become a once a week event. You have to when loading 1000 rounds a week. My hand still stings when I think about not doing regular PM and had a key part of the powder measure give out and throw a double charge. The frustrating part was having to pull almost 500 rounds of 45 ACP because the powder variance was smaller than the combined variance in bullet and brass weight. This is mixed head stamped brass with cast bullets for practice, not the big match ammo which usually is same lot virgin or once fired.

I am pathetically anal retentive when it comes to reloading. Small batches of 20 rds, each powder drop trickled, each case tapped 3 times, each case visually inspected with flashlight before bullet in seated, each loaded round shaken and weighed to verify. But they shoot well so I don't complain.

Similar to what someone here wrote about shooting .308 in .30-06 and 7.65 Arg, a few years ago SA Magnum magazine had photos and a story of a guy in Namibia who fired a .308 in a .25-06 - it did not end happily.

Bren:

Hey good Buddy.

Do you realize what you just posted "

Fired a 308 in a 25-06.

"Splain that Amigo"

A 308 will fit into a 25-06 chamber, and if the extractor holds it in place it will fire.

Holland and Holland gave up making their 244 H&H Magnum for exactly this reason.

Many rifles were returned after people fired larger calibers in them.

This is from one of the directors of H&H.

quote:

Originally posted by wetibbe:
Bren:

Hey good Buddy.

Do you realize what you just posted "

Fired a 308 in a 25-06.

"Splain that Amigo"

You are aware, I hope that the .308 has a 2" case length (approx) cartridge and a .25-06 has a 2-1/2" case length are you not?

The case heads are the same size. If the extractor holds the case head against the bolt, it will fire .....

Explained.

Even better than that I have seen a 270 that had not one, but TWO .308 rounds fired through it, before it went all pear-shaped. Some parts were usable - the grip cap, the recoil pad, the front sight

I'll just wait for the apology .... :crickets: ..... :crickets: ....

You got it friend.

I was just messin with ya anyway !



Crickets, crickets - Yeah I suppose so !

Whatever you say.

I'm pretty laid back in my old age.

Yea, let's just call this pissing match quits.